Great Northern Fleet - 379s introduction

[Mamorin]

My information on 700s is limited, so I had no idea what stations they had run to the Southern network other than Brighton.

 

[JonathanH]

700s routinely run into Victoria from Sevenoaks when Blackfriars is shut, and indeed one stables at Victoria each night.

I'm not aware of one having run into the 'Southern' side of Victoria.

 

[43102EMR]

My information on 700s is limited, so I had no idea what stations they had run to the Southern network other than Brighton.

They also run to East Grinstead once a day and used to run to Littlehampton, so their use across the GTR network is rather varied

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Er...the relatively poor availability of the C700s is probably a factor here. As is the 'DfT are paying for everything...'! More particularly, is it really necessary to have GN and TL trains overlapping to quite such an extent, ie. make more of the GN Semis run into Thameslink, using the paths being taken by the WGC T: trains (which really are excess capacity!)

 

[dk1]

Be perfect if these trains returned to part of their old stomping ground. Will be ideal on Kings Lynn-Kings Cross route.

 

[Minstral25]

Er...the relatively poor availability of the C700s is probably a factor here. As is the 'DfT are paying for everything...'! More particularly, is it really necessary to have GN and TL trains overlapping to quite such an extent, ie. make more of the GN Semis run into Thameslink, using the paths being taken by the WGC T: trains (which really are excess capacity!)

Currently true that 700s are "having more repairs than usual" but surely better to get availability up rather than hire in more units, which will also need maintaining and thus cost much more money to the DfT.

 

[3RDGEN]

When did the Locomotive over run Watford Junction Station, roughly what year?

I think it was 1996.

 

[bramling]

Currently true that 700s are "having more repairs than usual" but surely better to get availability up rather than hire in more units, which will also need maintaining and thus cost much more money to the DfT.

Have we ever got to the bottom of why the 700's availability has always struggled to stay afloat? They should be at the point where things are settling down now, and especially with the fleet having been worked less intensively as a result of Covid.

I've always wondered whether the maintenance arrangements are less than optimal, especially with a few material changes relative to what was originally planned - Rainham, no Caterham/Tattenham Corner, smaller depot at Hornsey than originally envisaged, etc.

 

[PGAT]

They do have shoe gear so yes they could, but given that would require train crew training and route learning I can't see that happening.

700s have ran over most of the Southern network without much hassle in the past, and not just ECS movements either

 

[Mordac]

Have we ever got to the bottom of why the 700's availability has always struggled to stay afloat? They should be at the point where things are settling down now, and especially with the fleet having been worked less intensively as a result of Covid.

I've always wondered whether the maintenance arrangements are less than optimal, especially with a few material changes relative to what was originally planned - Rainham, no Caterham/Tattenham Corner, smaller depot at Hornsey than originally envisaged, etc.

Especially since their siblings the 707s and 717s seem to top the reliability tables.

 

[Energy]

Especially since their siblings the 707s and 717s seem to top the reliability tables.

The 700s have more cars to have a fault on so will have a disproportionately low MTIN compared to say the class 350.

 

[D365]

The 700s have more cars to have a fault on so will have a disproportionately low MTIN compared to say the class 350.

I take this as meaning that, when considering a long length unit, there’s more chance of an entire unit being failed.

 

[bramling]

I take this as meaning that, when considering a long length unit, there’s more chance of an entire unit being failed.

Well, this point was raised on here when the 700s were being procured, and ISTR we were assured this wouldn’t be an issue.

I guess the flip side of the coin is that at least Thameslink users have been insulated from having their train lengths cut simply because it’s impossible. I must be on something tonight, posting something positive about the class 700!

 

[Energy]

I take this as meaning that, when considering a long length unit, there’s more chance of an entire unit being failed.

Yes, there is physically more to go wrong so a higher chance of the whole unit being taken out. If corrected for then 700 reliability is unsurprisingly similar to the 707s, the 717s do well as they have low utilisation like the C2C 387s (when they ran them).

I guess the flip side of the coin is that at least Thameslink users have been insulated from having their train lengths cut simply because it’s impossible. I must be on something tonight, posting something positive about the class 700!

The flip side is that you get 12 carriages all fully walk through. I've been on 8 car 350s in which the front few carriages are empty as people don't move a long the train, particularly when leaving terminating stations. Seeing empty seats in the next carriage gets people to move.

2 6 car fully walk through units wouldn't sacrifice this too much, though 3 4 car units probably would.

 

[southern442]

Not going to happen obviously, but 700s would be a pretty good fit for some of the inner-suburban southern services with their spacious metro-style layout compared to the armrests and tables affair of the /6s. Hypothetically you could get some of them to do something like the victoria-london bridge services, and then you could bring back the segregated fast/slow mole valley (via mitcham) services.

 

[Bikeman78]

When did the Locomotive over run Watford Junction Station, roughly what year?

Summer 1996.

 

[GEC465]

Bit of a bump but any new developments on this?

 

[Fincra5]

Bit of a bump but any new developments on this?

Discussions are on-going...

 

[Lknowles78]

Er...the relatively poor availability of the C700s is probably a factor here. As is the 'DfT are paying for everything...'! More particularly, is it really necessary to have GN and TL trains overlapping to quite such an extent, ie. make more of the GN Semis run into Thameslink, using the paths being taken by the WGC T: trains (which really are excess capacity!)

They have just transferred most of the GN semis back from TL. Most WGC, Hatfield, Potters Bar, Finsbury Pk callers are now 387s with the addition of Alexandra Palace stops instead of the 700s. The promise of cross London TL services from Hatfield is now dead and gone!

 

[SteveU821]

They have just transferred most of the GN semis back from TL. Most WGC, Hatfield, Potters Bar, Finsbury Pk callers are now 387s with the addition of Alexandra Palace stops instead of the 700s. The promise of cross London TL services from Hatfield is now dead and gone!

Not quite dead and gone. They’ve got the Sevenoaks service.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not quite dead and gone. They’ve got the Sevenoaks service.

peak hours only though but welcome addition

 

[Sutton in Ant]

If GN were successful in obtaining the 379s. Would Southern railway get any of the 387s that is with GN?

 

[Doomotron]

If GN were successful in obtaining the 379s. Would Southern railway get any of the 387s that is with GN?

That is the idea suggested on here; whether that is the actual plan or not is up for debate.

 

[Wivenswold]

I hope the 379s are getting the job. I'm not a fan of Electrostars but they will represent such a much deserved upgrade for GN passengers.

 

[JonathanH]

I hope the 379s are getting the job. I'm not a fan of Electrostars but they will represent such a much deserved upgrade for GN passengers.

You are assuming they would keep the first class as it is currently set up, which would represent a reduction in capacity.

 

[Halish Railway]

You are assuming they would keep the first class as it is currently set up, which would represent a reduction in capacity.

But could result in an uptick in ticket revenue if passengers (especially those from Cambridge and further north) cotton on to how first class presents a significantly improved travel experience over standard class.

 

[jon0844]

You are assuming they would keep the first class as it is currently set up, which would represent a reduction in capacity.

I can't see the DfT wanting to pay to change the seats, but I assume they'd be down to get upgrades like the 387s to add LED lighting, USB sockets, colour screens (not that they're yet showing useful information like real time info) and whatever else that project upgraded.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

I hope that Great Northern will get the 379s and even those I have not traveled on them. The seating looks very nice and comfortable.

 

[bramling]

I hope that Great Northern will get the 379s and even those I have not traveled on them. The seating looks very nice and comfortable.

There is no guarantee that if GTR get the 379s the seating will stay the same, especially as the months in storage won’t be doing it any good. There would need to be some level of reconfiguration as in their current form the 379s have too much first - that’s if GTR doesn’t go the same way as other TOCs and first disappears altogether.

And this all depends on whether GTR get the 379s at all.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

There is no guarantee that if GTR get the 379s the seating will stay the same, especially as the months in storage won’t be doing it any good. There would need to be some level of reconfiguration as in their current form the 379s have too much first - that’s if GTR doesn’t go the same way as other TOCs and first disappears altogether.

And this all depends on whether GTR get the 379s at all.

Fair point. But I would also say never say never but nothing is definite. The talking still goes on.