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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

Noddy

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I'm afraid that Wetherby Services is one on my avoid at all costs lists with queues back on to the A1 and no car parking spaces often encountered. I've admittedly never charged there but the MG4 software doesnt seem to be optimistic that youd make it there from an 80% charge at Brampton Hut at 70 mph especially if you divert via the m18 to avoid the Doncaster bypass jam. Of course if your on fossil fuels Morris ons at Boroughbridge junction 48 with a nice town and riverside walk is just 15 mins further.

Yeah you must be looking at the standard range, the long range has an official range of 280miles (so should very easily be able to do Cambridgeshire-Yorkshire from 80% in the real world) and the extended range model has an official range of 320 miles (you could theoretically get away with only one long stop). Also I note there is a 50kW charger in the centre of Boroughbridge that seems to have good reviews on ZapMap. It might take a little longer but your use case doesn’t seem to focus on speed.
 
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renegademaster

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Ideally long journeys can be undertaken using borrowed or rental cars, except by those who make more than one a year. I borrowed a van to do the mythical "pick up a bed" that so many drivers are certain happens to them weekly - I mused to my partner that the only things as big that I'd ever driven were trains!
It only takes a few rental journeys to completely undo any cost savings, they aren't cheap
 

Bald Rick

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It only takes a few rental journeys to completely undo any cost savings, they aren't cheap

That depends. I have run the numbers on it, and about 15 years ago for the best part of a year the BR household dropped to become a one car family. It was definitely cheaper to hire occasionally - I priced in one two day hire a month, and that was about the same as tax / insurance / servicing / repairs of a second car, and did not allow for depreciation (which is the biggest cost of all).

But what that time did do was make the marginal cost for a second car very obvious. In the end I only ended up hiring three times. Generally I used taxis for short distance stuff where I needed a car and other options weren’t available. I anlso started walking to the station rather than driving, which saved me about £30 a week. Overall I reckon I saved well over a thousand quid in the year, plus the depreciation cost.

However Mrs BR got really quite uppity (despite the logic) so we went back to 2 cars in order to preserve life (mine)… albeit one of the cars is fully depreciated now (and on the cusp of appreciating!)
 

The Ham

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That depends. I have run the numbers on it, and about 15 years ago for the best part of a year the BR household dropped to become a one car family. It was definitely cheaper to hire occasionally - I priced in one two day hire a month, and that was about the same as tax / insurance / servicing / repairs of a second car, and did not allow for depreciation (which is the biggest cost of all).

But what that time did do was make the marginal cost for a second car very obvious. In the end I only ended up hiring three times. Generally I used taxis for short distance stuff where I needed a car and other options weren’t available. I anlso started walking to the station rather than driving, which saved me about £30 a week. Overall I reckon I saved well over a thousand quid in the year, plus the depreciation cost.

However Mrs BR got really quite uppity (despite the logic) so we went back to 2 cars in order to preserve life (mine)… albeit one of the cars is fully depreciated now (and on the cusp of appreciating!)

Indeed, I often say that few fully understand just how much their car(s) actually cost them.

Even if people walked to the station more often or some other local journeys which they do semi frequently the cost savings soon mount up.
 

Bald Rick

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Even if people walked to the station more often or some other local journeys which they do semi frequently the cost savings soon mount up.

Quite.

in the 15 years I have now defaulted to walking to the station rather than driving, I reckon I have saved myself somewhere in the region of £25k just in parking, fuel and additional car maintenance. Offset by about £500 in additional shoe purchase. But I’m also healthier.
 

AM9

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Quite.

in the 15 years I have now defaulted to walking to the station rather than driving, I reckon I have saved myself somewhere in the region of £25k just in parking, fuel and additional car maintenance. Offset by about £500 in additional shoe purchase. But I’m also healthier.
Knowing how bad the peak and or school run crush can be at SAC, the extra time spent walking probably wasn't as much as might have been expected either.
 

Bald Rick

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Knowing how bad the peak and or school run crush can be at SAC, the extra time spent walking probably wasn't as much as might have been expected either.

From where I was when I started the new regime, walking was an extra 7 minutes each way.

From where I am now, it’s about the same time walking / driving in term time September to May, and a 15 minute longer walk otherwise.
 

Mag_seven

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Can we keep discussion to the topic of electric vehicles please.

I've split off some posts that were discussing Private Hires to a new thread that can be found here:

 

MotCO

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The Telegraph is today reporting that, whilst the number of EVs being bought each has increased for the 41st month in a row, the number of private sales (presumably as opposed to business or fleet sales) has shown a decrease. Also, the rate of growth in sales of EVs has fallen behind the rate of growth of other vehicles (presumably hybrid, petrol and diesel).

Two conclusions can be reached from these figures. Either:
1. EVs are not the favoured type of car by those individuals who have to pay for their own vehicle; or
2. EVs are just too expensive for the individual who does not receive any tax incentives.


Drop in households buying electric cars as ministers warned over lack of tax breaks​


Motoring industry says incentives needed to aid switch from diesel and petrol to EVs

The number of households buying electric cars fell sharply last month, new figures show, as industry figures warned over a lack of tax breaks for motorists.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) revealed private sales of battery-powered vehicles fell by more than 14pc in September, which the trade body said highlights a need for greater incentives to boost demand.
Mike Hawes, chief executive of the SMMT, said: “With tougher electric vehicle (EV) targets for manufacturers coming into force next year, we need to accelerate the transition, encouraging all motorists to make the switch.
“This means adding carrots to the stick – creating private purchase incentives aligned with business benefits, equalising on-street charging VAT with off-street domestic rates and mandating charge point rollout in line with how electric vehicle sales are now to be dictated.”


His demands follow Rishi Sunak’s recent decision to push back the ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars to 2035.
The policy changes have sparked anger across the industry.
Vertu Motors, one of Britain’s biggest car dealerships, has said the Government’s approach was “confusing” and warned it could derail the industry’s recovery.
Nissan also snubbed Mr Sunak by vowing to go all-electric in the UK by 2030, arguing it was “the right thing to do for our business, our customers and for the planet”.


The decision to push back the ban on new petrol and diesel cars puts the UK in line with the European Union.
However, the SMMT warned that motorists in Britain, unlike other countries, had no incentives to go electric.
Mr Hawes added: “The forthcoming Autumn Statement is the perfect opportunity to create the conditions that will deliver the zero emission mobility essential to our shared net zero ambition.”
While private uptake of electric cars dropped last month, overall battery EV registrations increased thanks to a jump in fleet purchases.
More than 45,000 drivers made the switch to electric in September – a 19pc increase and the 41st consecutive month of growth. Sales of plug-in and hybrid vehicles also increased.
However, as this growth lagged behind the wider market, battery electric vehicles now make up a smaller share of the market than they did a year ago.
More broadly, the UK new car market grew 21pc last month with 272,610 sales.
The figures marked the industry’s best September since 2020, though it remains more than 20pc below pre-pandemic levels.
 

Roast Veg

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I think this is probably symptomatic of the cost of living crisis, meaning car buyers are more "cash-poor". Of course the long term financials are more favourable to buy electric for most drivers, but the higher up front cost is only growing when buyers have less disposable income.
 

Bald Rick

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The Telegraph is today reporting that, whilst the number of EVs being bought each has increased for the 41st month in a row, the number of private sales (presumably as opposed to business or fleet sales) has shown a decrease. Also, the rate of growth in sales of EVs has fallen behind the rate of growth of other vehicles (presumably hybrid, petrol and diesel).

Two conclusions can be reached from these figures. Either:
1. EVs are not the favoured type of car by those individuals who have to pay for their own vehicle; or
2. EVs are just too expensive for the individual who does not receive any tax incentives.


That’s a classic Telegraphian interpretation of the statistics to suit its agenda. Sales of pure EVs up almost 19%, and sales of EV + Hybrids up nearly 30%, while sales of ICE only up 14% is depicted as a problem with EVs.

You‘ll notice that Tesla is not in the top 10 models for the month of September, whereas they normally are. It looks like their plant shutdown has affected sales, and also that a boat load of Qashqai’s was offloaded.


Meanwhile I have now seen well over 20 cars registered since September 1st, and all except 3 were EVs.
 

Noddy

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And folk on here think battery replacements are expensive! I’m not sure I’ve ever seen one quoted as over twice the price of the car when new!

As reported by AutoBild, German IT consultant Till Westberg purchased a Hyundai ix35 seven years ago for the reasonable sum of €50,200—roughly $55,000 nowadays. Known as the Hyundai Tuscon in the U.S., the ix35 was offered with hydrogen power in limited numbers, with the gas used to generate electricity for the drivetrain via a fuel cell. Westberg drove the car for years without fault, racking up over 52,000 miles before disaster struck.



Sadly, Westberg's ix35 simply stopped working one day. The SUV began throwing an error message on the screen when powered up, and would no longer drive. Unfortunately for the German resident, repair seems out of the question. Upon approaching Hyundai for a fix, Westberg was presented with a monstrous €103,764.17 ($113,000) repair bill for the fuel cell system. Tragically, the vehicle, purchased on the cusp of 2016, is now well past its standard five-year warranty period.
continues…
 

Energy

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And folk on here think battery replacements are expensive! I’m not sure I’ve ever seen one quoted as over twice the price of the car when new!

Not particularly suprising, most hydrogen cars are low volume. I'm not sure why people buy them given the lack of hydrogen infrastructure, its not like you can charge it at home.
 

jon0844

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So Citroën has announced the global release of the e-C3. Built to a higher standard than the India model, I expected a nasty shock on price but it is going to retail at £21k, with a range of 199 miles WLTP and 100kWh fast charging.

No heat pump, but Citroën are expecting owners to do little more than 50 miles per day so don't consider it a big issue.

Seems like even a non-Chinese car maker is aiming to produce a good small car that has a decent charging speed so you can do the occasional long journey if needed. The battery type is also happy to be charged to 100%.

If VW launches the ID-2 and Tesla does the model 2, the likes of Ford are going to miss out big time.

There's a video preview below.

 

Speed43125

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So Citroën has announced the global release of the e-C3. Built to a higher standard than the India model, I expected a nasty shock on price but it is going to retail at £21k, with a range of 199 miles WLTP and 100kWh fast charging.

No heat pump, but Citroën are expecting owners to do little more than 50 miles per day so don't consider it a big issue.

Seems like even a non-Chinese car maker is aiming to produce a good small car that has a decent charging speed so you can do the occasional long journey if needed. The battery type is also happy to be charged to 100%.

If VW launches the ID-2 and Tesla does the model 2, the likes of Ford are going to miss out big time.

There's a video preview below.

I did notice the choice to go with a LiFePo4 battery, honestly a pretty good decision IMO as 44 Kw/h is the sort of size where I'd imagine a fair few owners will be trying to eke out every last mile occasionally.

Shame about the jump to Crossover though. I'd have thought even lowering the car by a good 30mm might add a decent chunk of change to the range.
 

trebor79

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44kWh LiFePO is effectively 55kWh of one of the other chemistries that you're only meant to charge about 80% occasionally. Cheaper battery technology and smaller pack is how they'd managed to keep the cost down.
I guess you'll get about 170 miles real world range in warm weather, and maybe 120 on the motorway in winter. Wouldn't work for me but if this had been available when we bought my wifes car it would definitely have been a strong contender.
 

jon0844

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Hopefully the mere release of this and others will start a bit of a price war, and the petrol C3 has been a very affordable car to lease.

Competition will be good for everyone and increase choice.
 

Harpers Tate

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Talking of (relatively) cheap cars, I saw a YT video which was doing one of those standing start 1/4 mile "drag" races that they seem to think is important in choosing a car. The challenger was an Audi E-Tron (electric) costing - what, about £80k. They used "launch mode" in both cars to maximise off-the line acceleration. They did "best out of three".

The car under review beat the Audi on all three runs, with a measured 0-60 time of well under 4 seconds. It was a £37k MG4EV.
 

jon0844

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I'd love to get a MG4 X Power but given the mileages I do, it would be a bit of a waste of time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

..to add, I watched another video talking about the e-C3 and it seems there's a smaller battery version coming in Europe in 2025 for people who don't even need 199 miles - and for a range of nearer 125 miles there could be another £2-3k off the price.
 
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jon0844

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What's great about all this is that not only will we hopefully see more competition and deals, but (as has been said for ages on this thread) it will lead to some excellent and highly affordable second hand vehicles in 3-4 years from now.

The smaller car market is going to be huge for those set up to compete (I think almost 28% of Citroën models sold in the UK were the C3, which may include the Aircross model) and no doubt will force the likes of Ford to reconsider its ridiculous decision to axe the Fiesta.
 

Chuffing Heck

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The big worry seams to be what little industry we have left is going to be obliterated by Chinese imports leaving us with no industry and mass unemployment I don’t see what is so good about that!
 

jon0844

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I believe the e-C3 will be made in Europe and we could be making batteries here (supposedly large deposits of Lithium in the south west) so we could compete, but we seem to prefer to slag off progress and insist on the future being fossil fuel powered cars.

Maybe a change in Government could help.
 

birchesgreen

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The big worry seams to be what little industry we have left is going to be obliterated by Chinese imports leaving us with no industry and mass unemployment I don’t see what is so good about that!
We seem to be messing up our EV industry on our own without Chinese help.
 

jon0844

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We seem to be messing up our EV industry on our own without Chinese help.

Indeed.

Until we as a country embrace the inevitable (that in 5-10 years people will be buying EVs whether the Government chooses to allow ICE cars to continue to be sold or not), we'll just fall further behind.

China has a clear lead, but it isn't the only country with the necessary materials to produce batteries - it has just invested heavily while others sat on their backsides. Even the US is probably ahead of us, thanks to Elon (and I don't find myself thanking that narcissistic idiot very often).

It's somewhat ironic because in the tech world, China often had no choice but to copy the west to produce cheaper clones. This time it is out in front and we're the ones having to find ways to compete.

Perhaps the west will impose tariffs and duty on Chinese imports to level the playing field, but then the only losers are the people who will pay more - so I doubt that will be popular.
 

skyhigh

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BYD Seagull looks a decent car (judging by a YT review i saw) especially for the price (sub 10K?)
I would be stunned if it was sub £10k in the UK. The Ami (which has a top speed of 28mph and range of about 40 miles) is around £7500.

The Chinese price is roughly £8k so by the time you add transport, taxes and import tariffs I'd expect it to be over £10k. It won't be an expensive car though.
 

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