LNER Class 91 York - KGX 12:02 (1Y84)

[Viper]

Does anyone know the logic for using a 91 on the 12:02 stopping service from York - KGX? I'd have thought the faster acceleration of the 800 would make it more suitable for that journey and the 91 would be better on a more direct service.

 

[hexagon789]

Does anyone know the logic for using a 91 on the 12:02 stopping service from York - KGX? I'd have thought the faster acceleration of the 800 would make it more suitable for that journey and the 91 would be better on a more direct service.

The timetables are still broadly based on joint HST/225 performance, except on diesel only sections where there were some adjustments to account for poorer LNER 800 diesel performance - such as to Aberdeen and Inverness.

The 80x do excel on electric at lower speeds, but compared to the 225s overall acceleration to 125mph is only about 40 secs better.

It was originally considered that the retained 225s would be used on the Edinburgh fasts, which would have had fewer stops - the 225s having two coaches removed to equalise performance with the 80x.

As it was that didn't happen, I think that they decided capacity was more important on the Edinburgh services where loadings are high.

So the 225s are used on lesser workings.

 

[DanNCL]

Does anyone know the logic for using a 91 on the 12:02 stopping service from York - KGX? I'd have thought the faster acceleration of the 800 would make it more suitable for that journey and the 91 would be better on a more direct service.

The one that quickly comes to mind is that of the alternatives for the set when it reaches Kings Cross from its previous southbound working, the 08:33 and 09:03 Leeds departures are already booked to use other 91s and the 09:33 goes to Harrogate so has to be an 800. Which basically means the options for the 225 set are either to use it on the 09:06 York departure or send it to Ferme Park for a few hours.

It was originally considered that the retained 225s would be used on the Edinburgh fasts, which would have had fewer stops - the 225s having two coaches removed to equalise performance with the 80x.

As it was that didn't happen, I think that they decided capacity was more important on the Edinburgh services where loadings are high.

So the 225s are used on lesser workings.

Less to do with capacity, more to do with reducing the number of thunderbirds required and number of crews who need to sign 225s. Cutting the area of operation back to York-southwards allowed two thunderbirds to be axed and two crew depots to remove 225s from their traction cards.

 

[hexagon789]

Less to do with capacity, more to do with reducing the number of thunderbirds required and number of crews who need to sign 225s. Cutting the area of operation back to York-southwards allowed two thunderbirds to be axed and two crew depots to remove 225s from their traction cards.

Admittedly I was simplifying it a bit, but given the original intentions would've seen the 225s still working to Edinburgh, reducing overall crew competencies seemed a secondary consideration.

 

[Viper]

That's a good point, I hadn't considered where else it could go from KXG. How does restricting the northbound operations to York reduce the Thunderbird requirements. Are they not needed for the 800s?

 

[hexagon789]

That's a good point, I hadn't considered where else it could go from KXG. How does restricting the northbound operations to York reduce the Thunderbird requirements. Are they not needed for the 800s?

The Thunderbirds were for the 225s because the 225s can only run on an overhead electric supply.

The 801s can 'self rescue', hence the single diesel engine.

 

[38Cto15E]

Are the 225's still good to run on some of the Leeds services for some time?

 

[hexagon789]

Are the 225's still good to run on some of the Leed's services for some time?

I presume the ultimate deadline will be the installation and inauguration of ETCS on the Southern ECML, as I'm not aware there are plans to retrofit the 225 sets. The 80x already have passive provision for the equipment to be installed.

 

[YorksLad12]

Are the 225's still good to run on some of the Leed's services for some time?

I don't know about "some" time, but I'm booked on a 225 down to London (1315 from Leeds) on 13 November, and 1933 return on the 14th. Accidentally, but they were the cheapest tickets and best times for me, so why not?

 

[Viper]

The Thunderbirds were for the 225s because the 225s can only run on an overhead electric supply.

The 801s can 'self rescue', hence the single diesel engine.

That makes sense for failure of the OLE. I presume there is still a level of Thunderbird requirement across the full route in case of failure of the unit, rather than the OLE?

 

[hexagon789]

That makes sense for failure of the OLE. I presume there is still a level of Thunderbird requirement across the full route in case of failure of the unit, rather than the OLE?

Don't know, sorry.

Perhaps @DanNCL may know?

 

[DarloRich]

WCRC have a couple of locos stationed at Newark (?) for ECML thunderbird operations

 

[800001]

WCRC have a couple of locos stationed at Newark (?) for ECML thunderbird operations

Yea WCRC Provide 2 x 57 (occasionally a 47), for use my any operator on the ECML that requires them.

The thunderbirds are also available to be used away from ECML if an and when needed.