CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jez]

Apparently 197105 has entered service for the first time today.

 

[sd0733]

The 196s can only run up to 4 car as their ASDO is isolated, and some platforms can't take more than 4 car. They may not have even set up ASDO, as I believe it was isolated from the off!

That's what I wondered whether it's just overridden e everywhere.
A couple of stops were extended to take 4s a couple of years ago but no more than that.
If that's the ccase it'll definitely need the whole database building.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2023 ==

Apparently 197105 has entered service for the first time today.

It's showing on the system as having done, first working was 05:52 Chester to Manchester Airport

 

[GWVillager]

AFAIK the main aim was to be Milford first with Fishguard not too far behind, then the 197s can (once Swansea to Carmarthen is signed off) run the whole way Milford to Manchester. Pembroke is mostly a shuttle anyway so doesn't impact on through running so much.

Does this mean that the Fishguard shuttles will go over to 197s relatively soon (in comparison to others), or just that they can in theory run?

 

[sd0733]

Does this mean that the Fishguard shuttles will go over to 197s relatively soon (in comparison to others), or just that they can in theory run?

I'm not sure to be honest, down there isn't particularly my area of expertise!
Just was told that Milford would be done first to enable the "mainline" to run and then Fishguard would follow.
Once it's cleared and there's enough units and crew anything can run, as one shuttle or through services.

 

[craigybagel]

The future improved timetable that was supposed to come into effect in December but has since been postponed saw Fishguard and Milford Haven services interwork (Fishguard being a 2 hourly extension of the current Carmarthen terminators) so that might be why it's more of a priority than Pembroke.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

AFAIK the main aim was to be Milford first with Fishguard not too far behind, then the 197s can (once Swansea to Carmarthen is signed off) run the whole way Milford to Manchester.

Do we have a time-frame for this yet please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2023 ==

The future improved timetable that was supposed to come into effect in December but has since been postponed saw Fishguard and Milford Haven services interwork (Fishguard being a 2 hourly extension of the current Carmarthen terminators) so that might be why it's more of a priority than Pembroke.

So Manchester - Fishguard - Cardiff - Milford - Manchester would be the circuit then?

 

[craigybagel]

So Manchester - Fishguard - Cardiff - Milford - Manchester would be the circuit then?

I can't remember which way round Fishguard and Milford come in the circuit but yeah that's the gist of it.

 

[Plasmanoodle]

Is there any sign of ramps being installed at stations for the 197s? As it stands, some stations don’t have them and the guard has to assemble the two-part ramp themselves. The two parts of said ramp are stored in different parts of the carriage, which is sometimes causing delays.

 

[Delta558]

In terms of where Milford and Fishguard are at in the grand scheme of things, we have done the first set of proving runs to both (11th and 12th September). They will need further proving runs, so not immediate but the process has started.

Pembroke Dock was supposed to have proving runs on the 13th, but Asdo hadn't been written for it. That will fit in at some point.

Current aim is for SWA-CMN to be running in passenger service in November but as always that's subject to change.

Attached pic is the first time a 197 was signalled west of Carmarthen.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Is there any sign of ramps being installed at stations for the 197s? As it stands, some stations don’t have them and the guard has to assemble the two-part ramp themselves. The two parts of said ramp are stored in different parts of the carriage, which is sometimes causing delays.

Hereford has 196/197 ramps, but the staff aren't yet signed off to use them so it's still the guard doing it here! Other places not sure about.

 

[Anonymous10]

In terms of where Milford and Fishguard are at in the grand scheme of things, we have done the first set of proving runs to both (11th and 12th September). They will need further proving runs, so not immediate but the process has started.

Pembroke Dock was supposed to have proving runs on the 13th, but Asdo hadn't been written for it. That will fit in at some point.

Current aim is for SWA-CMN to be running in passenger service in November but as always that's subject to change.

Attached pic is the first time a 197 was signalled west of Carmarthen.

Great thanks, good to hear of the progress being a native of pembrokeshire.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s becoming very common to see two or three 197s at Central at once (photo shows the above)

The right hand unit just left for Holyhead twenty minutes late.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

When I was at Shrewsbury today I saw 197101 on a Holyhead to Cardiff service 1V94 and I also saw 197006 on 1W16 Swansea to Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When I was at Shrewsbury today I saw 197101 on a Holyhead to Cardiff service 1V94 and I also saw 197006 on 1W16 Swansea to Manchester Piccadilly.

Well yes, there’s about eight 197 diagrams through there now, so I’m not surprised…

 

[Bob Price]

Interesting to see 101 in the Crewe Chester shuttle today. Needed space I am sure but usually a two car.

 

[sd0733]

Interesting to see 101 in the Crewe Chester shuttle today. Needed space I am sure but usually a two car.

The shuttle is booked on a 3 car diagram at the moment.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The guard on the late 1052 CDF MAN (197105, completing the serviceable 197s for me) needs to calm down with the announcement button. We’ve had Glyn and piercing Elin tell us about smoking laws, and then thirty seconds later about staff wearing body cameras, and then thirty seconds later about feet on seats.

 

[St. Paddy]

The guard on the late 1052 CDF MAN (197105, completing the serviceable 197s for me) needs to calm down with the announcement button. We’ve had Glyn and piercing Elin tell us about smoking laws, and then thirty seconds later about staff wearing body cameras, and then thirty seconds later about feet on seats.

That told him/her

 

[GWVillager]

The guard on the late 1052 CDF MAN (197105, completing the serviceable 197s for me) needs to calm down with the announcement button. We’ve had Glyn and piercing Elin tell us about smoking laws, and then thirty seconds later about staff wearing body cameras, and then thirty seconds later about feet on seats.

Would that be the guard triggering them? There are so many announcements on the 197s I struggle to believe that any person could think that’s an acceptable amount.

 

[L401CJF]

Would that be the guard triggering them? There are so many announcements on the 197s I struggle to believe that any person could think that’s an acceptable amount.

Yes these are some of the pre recorded announcements that can be played by the guard. I find them handy in certain situations but as I'm aware of the sheer number of basic announcements already I'll only play one if I feel necessary !

 

[Delta558]

Keep an eye on Swansea to Carmarthen next week . . . .

 

[sd0733]

197050 is now in service, looks to have entered service on 04:55 Chester to Manchester Airport yesterday

 

[Jez]

197050 is now in service, looks to have entered service on 04:55 Chester to Manchester Airport yesterday

i managed to get this one yesterday just by chance as I had a day trip to Manchester!

 

[sd0733]

As @Delta558 said Carmarthen-Swansea will join the '197 Network' tomorrow as good as seeing off the final TfW 175 diagrams.

Swaps can and probably will occur on the day but tomorrows booked diagrams which include Carmarthen (in order they visit Carmarthen are):

04:19 ECS Swansea to Carmarthen ( 4car splits at Carmarthen)
06:52 Carmarthen to Cardiff
13:12 Cardiff to Swansea
15:05 Swansea to Chester
22:38 Chester to Shrewsbury
23:40 Shrewsbury to Chester

04:19 ECS Swansea to Carmarthen ( 4car splits at Carmarthen)
08:53 Carmarthen to Cardiff
12:04 Cardiff to Carmarthen
13:57 Carmarthen to Manchester Pic (adds 2 cars at Cardiff then splits at Manchester)
19:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff

07:45 Cardiff to Carmarthen
10:06 Carmarthen to Manchester Pic (adds 2 coaches at Crewe)
15:30 Manchester Pic to Carmarthen (4 car throughout)
21:01 Carmarthen to Cardiff (4 car throughout)

04:46 Chester to Crewe (4 car)
05:58 Crewe to Carmarthen
10:58 Carmarthen to Cardiff
13:48 Cardiff to Carmarthen
16:01 Carmarthen to Manchester Pic (adds 2 cars at Cardiff then splits at Manchester)
21:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff

06:10 Shrewsbury to Cardiff
10:06 Cardiff to Carmarthen
12:03 Carmarthen to Manchester Pic
17:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
21:15 Cardiff to Chester

04:46 Chester to Crewe (4 car)
06:29 Crewe to Manchester Pic
07:30 Manchester Pic to Carmarthen
13:04 Carmarthen to Cardiff
15:49 Cardiff to Carmarthen
17:56 Carmarthen to Cardiff
20:05 Cardiff to Crewe

05:39 Cardiff to Manchester
09:30 Manchester to Carmarthen
15:01 Carmarthen to Cardiff
17:47 Cardiff to Carmarthen
20:12 Carmarthen to Cardiff
22:18 Cardiff to Carmarthen

There are now 28 197 diagrams (19 2 car, 4 3 car and 5 training)

If everything ran as booked that puts Manchester Marches departures as:
0626 4 car Mk4
0730 2 car 197
0830 4 carMk4
0930 2 car 197
1030 2 car 150
1130 2 car 150
1230 4 car Mk4
1330 2 car 158
1430 4 car Mk4
1530 4 car 197
1630 4 car Mk4
1730 2 car 197
1830 2 car 150
1930 2 car 197
2030 2 car 197
2130 2 car 197
2232 2 car 197

 

[Lurcheroo]

As @Delta558 said Carmarthen-Swansea will join the '197 Network' tomorrow as good as seeing off the final TfW 175 diagrams.

Swaps can and probably will occur on the day but tomorrows booked diagrams which include Carmarthen (in order they visit Carmarthen are):

04:19 ECS Swansea to Carmarthen ( 4car splits at Carmarthen)
06:52 Carmarthen to Cardiff
13:12 Cardiff to Swansea
15:05 Swansea to Chester
22:38 Chester to Shrewsbury
23:40 Shrewsbury to Chester

04:19 ECS Swansea to Carmarthen ( 4car splits at Carmarthen)
08:53 Carmarthen to Cardiff
12:04 Cardiff to Carmarthen
13:57 Carmarthen to Manchester Pic (adds 2 cars at Cardiff then splits at Manchester)
19:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff

07:45 Cardiff to Carmarthen
10:06 Carmarthen to Manchester Pic (adds 2 coaches at Crewe)
15:30 Manchester Pic to Carmarthen (4 car throughout)
21:01 Carmarthen to Cardiff (4 car throughout)

04:46 Chester to Crewe (4 car)
05:58 Crewe to Carmarthen
10:58 Carmarthen to Cardiff
13:48 Cardiff to Carmarthen
16:01 Carmarthen to Manchester Pic (adds 2 cars at Cardiff then splits at Manchester)
21:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff

06:10 Shrewsbury to Cardiff
10:06 Cardiff to Carmarthen
12:03 Carmarthen to Manchester Pic
17:30 Manchester Pic to Cardiff
21:15 Cardiff to Chester

04:46 Chester to Crewe (4 car)
06:29 Crewe to Manchester Pic
07:30 Manchester Pic to Carmarthen
13:04 Carmarthen to Cardiff
15:49 Cardiff to Carmarthen
17:56 Carmarthen to Cardiff
20:05 Cardiff to Crewe

05:39 Cardiff to Manchester
09:30 Manchester to Carmarthen
15:01 Carmarthen to Cardiff
17:47 Cardiff to Carmarthen
20:12 Carmarthen to Cardiff
22:18 Cardiff to Carmarthen

There are now 28 197 diagrams (19 2 car, 4 3 car and 5 training)

If everything ran as booked that puts Manchester Marches departures as:
0626 4 car Mk4
0730 2 car 197
0830 4 carMk4
0930 2 car 197
1030 2 car 150
1130 2 car 150
1230 4 car Mk4
1330 2 car 158
1430 4 car Mk4
1530 4 car 197
1630 4 car Mk4
1730 2 car 197
1830 2 car 150
1930 2 car 197
2030 2 car 197
2130 2 car 197
2232 2 car 197

Wow that is fantastic to see !
Progress in routes with 197 diagrams and Less and less 150’s on the Manchester's can surely only be a good thing (but this is the railway I suppose) Hopefully they can be 4 cars for all regardless of units.

Works taken me through Shrewsbury a few times today and every visit there has been at least 1x197.
The 2 cars we’re absolutely rammmed coming in with more getting on. The 4 car I saw was also busy and I couldn’t see a seat free with some standing.
Unfortunately 1 4 car was having an issue and by time I came back the rear half was still sitting in platform 7 (door fault I hear).

Does anyone know how many 197’s are now officially accepted by TFW ?

I’m also looking forward to seeing what the ‘1st class’ or whatever name they decide to go with, ends up being, I do hope it is still a 2+1 layout and maybe more akin to Avantis ‘standard premium’ where your more so paying for the upgraded seat and space, although that would also require another tier of pricing to be added in.
I can understand it’s very unlikely to match up to 1st class on the MK4 and why they might want to differentiate between the two types via naming and branding.

 

[sd0733]

Wow that is fantastic to see !
Progress in routes with 197 diagrams and Less and less 150’s on the Manchester's can surely only be a good thing (but this is the railway I suppose) Hopefully they can be 4 cars for all regardless of units.

Works taken me through Shrewsbury a few times today and every visit there has been at least 1x197.
The 2 cars we’re absolutely rammmed coming in with more getting on. The 4 car I saw was also busy and I couldn’t see a seat free with some standing.
Unfortunately 1 4 car was having an issue and by time I came back the rear half was still sitting in platform 7 (door fault I hear).

Does anyone know how many 197’s are now officially accepted by TFW ?

4 car minimum can't come soon enough on lots of routes. In many ways a 2 car 197 is worse than a 2 car 175 was with less capacity, comfort, luggage space and toilets, the benefits only Start when they're strengthened.

The accepted fleet is currently 197001/002/004/006-021/042-051/101/104/105/110-112 so 35 units in total, 29 2 car and 6 3 car.

 

[GWVillager]

I’m also looking forward to seeing what the ‘1st class’ or whatever name they decide to go with, ends up being, I do hope it is still a 2+1 layout and maybe more akin to Avantis ‘standard premium’ where your more so paying for the upgraded seat and space, although that would also require another tier of pricing to be added in.
I can understand it’s very unlikely to match up to 1st class on the MK4 and why they might want to differentiate between the two types via naming and branding.

It is 2+1, there were a few shots of it in the BBC Documentary about TfW a few months ago. The same seats as IET first class.

 

[CHAPS2034]

The guard on the late 1052 CDF MAN (197105, completing the serviceable 197s for me) needs to calm down with the announcement button. We’ve had Glyn and piercing Elin tell us about smoking laws, and then thirty seconds later about staff wearing body cameras, and then thirty seconds later about feet on seats.

Probably saw you getting on and did it deliberately...

 

[Lurcheroo]

4 car minimum can't come soon enough on lots of routes. In many ways a 2 car 197 is worse than a 2 car 175 was with less capacity, comfort, luggage space and toilets, the benefits only Start when they're strengthened.

I agree that the main benefit over 175’s and 158’s only comes from the the greater number of units and increased capacity. An overall upgrade on 150’s and 153’s for me.

The accepted fleet is currently 197001/002/004/006-021/042-051/101/104/105/110-112 so 35 units in total, 29 2 car and 6 3 car.

Thank you.

It is 2+1, there were a few shots of it in the BBC Documentary about TfW a few months ago. The same seats as IET first class.

Oh I thought I’d seen something that it may not be but that great to hear. I’ll have a look to see if I can find it.

 

[Diedinium]

Sorry to be uninformed, but the plan is that most of the 197 sets will run as 1x 3 cars or 2x 2 cars coupled right?

Will there even be some routes that get 5 or 6 cars? (3 + 3 could be coupled if they wanted to right?)

I really hope they don't plan to run the two car ones on their own too often in the long run...

Only asking as I actually skipped over getting on the 1536 service from Newport to Holyhead yesterday (later cancelled at Chester), which was running 20 minutes late because it was only two cars and got absolutely rammed full by those waiting at Newport. Got on the 1609 153+150 4 car set afterwards, which was still really busy (and 60 minutes late in the end due to a signalling fault).

They really shouldn't have started putting 197s into use until they could run most of them as coupled sets, what is currently stopping them? Is it just they're trying to replace as many of the older trains ASAP so are short forming to allow that?