Advance Tickets - The Connecting Service "Bit"

[Watershed]

Thanks! It's good to confirm the maximum length of the data field.

Where do the RSIDs come from? I feel like someone's answered this before, but it's not something usually displayed, well, anywhere. I think some booking engines do display an identifier which looks similar, but I don't know if that's the RSID or something internal to that site.

RSIDs are in the schedule data; they're the combination of the TOC code (e.g. GW) and then a four digit code, which is often numbered sequentially for departures on a given route. There's then two final digits which indicate the portion for multi-portion trains, but which are normally otherwise just 00 and hence not showed in most places.

RSIDs are shown on some timetable printouts (e.g. Network Rail's PDF WTTs, I believe?) and it's also shown on Real Time Trains and the like. They're also shown on the side of some trains, e.g. XC Voyagers.

 

[crablab]

Thanks Watershed! I guess I've just not been very observant then

RSIDs are in the schedule data;

Does that imply they are generated during the planning process then? I'm wondering where the 'source' for them is.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks Watershed! I guess I've just not been very observant then

They certainly aren't prominently displayed, so I don't blame you!

Does that imply they are generated during the planning process then? I'm wondering where the 'source' for them is.

Yes, they are determined by TOC planners when creating schedules - often to a specification set by their Commercial/Revenue department, as RSIDs are used to control the sale of Advance tickets.

 

[Adam Williams]

I seem to be getting a 404 error when trying to view that site.

It's not a URL - read as "TrainSplit's timetable site / TTH (Timetable History)"

 

[pokemonsuper9]

It's not a URL - read as "TrainSplit's timetable site / TTH (Timetable History)"

Thanks! I read it as 1 whole URL rather than a URL and an acronym.

 

[ticketing noel]

So, the journey is Maidstone East to Bristol Temple Meads on an advance ticket.

In the olden days, from memory, with these sort of long distance advance tickets (and I am thinking on Virgin Trains for instance) you were allowed to get any service for the unreserved 'connecting' bit, in this case being Maidstone East to London Victoria. Sure, you'd have a named service on the reservation, but you could get any you liked and that was fine. Given the connections were generous with time, you could save half an hour, especially on the way home, and get an earlier service for the 'connecting' part.

I've just asked a guard whether I can do that tonight, and he said no, that I had to take the named service on the ticket (ie London to Maidstone).

It's no problem, but I wondered what the policy was on that connecting service with these inter city services.

Hope that makes sense. To be clear, I am well aware I have to hit the specific London to Bristol service and vice versa. it's the bit before and after I am interested in. I wondered if things have changed since, say, 10 years ago.

Many thanks.

In the old days Southeastern did not have their own Advance tickets. They were introduced about 6 years ago to offer a cheaper product. As a result all mainline and High Speed services are now reservation services albeit you only have a counted place rather than an assigned seat.

With advance products you must have a reservation on any reservable service and travel on the train you're booked on.

As result whereas before you have some leeway from Maidstone to London now they're reservation you don't.

Given not all TOCs actually want Advance, not travelling on the booked train gives a reason to withdraw them and no guessing that the alternative will not be.

In terms of saying rail staff checking tickets are jobsworths for saying passengers need to stick to their booked trains, if you don't want to be tied down there are flexible tickets. If they don't do what they're paid to do why have them? If they go then we all lose out.

 

[richw]

I will accept that, but I personally have never seen a mandatory reservation coupon for a connection without allocated seat, even if it exists on the main train. And never come anyone asking to see one on a train without seat allocations either if already offered just the ticket.

I’ve a cheap advance next Friday. 2U12 Liskeard to Bristol temple meads. No reservable seats for the entire journey, so this completely blows some of the suggestions on this thread that only the services with reserved seats are mandatory.

 

[Gaelan]

I’ve a cheap advance next Friday. 2U12 Liskeard to Bristol temple meads. No reservable seats for the entire journey, so this completely blows some of the suggestions on this thread that only the services with reserved seats are mandatory.

There's a difference between a reserved seat, a "counted place reservation" (a "reservation" that can sell out, but doesn't list a specific seat number), and and no reservation at all. (Depending on type of ticket, this distinction may or may not be made clear - counted place reservations will always be listed, but non-reserved trains may or may not be.)

I don't believe an advance ticket can be sold without at least a counted place reservation.

 

[Tom]

RSIDs are in the schedule data; they're the combination of the TOC code (e.g. GW) and then a four digit code, which is often numbered sequentially for departures on a given route. There's then two final digits which indicate the portion for multi-portion trains, but which are normally otherwise just 00 and hence not showed in most places.

RSIDs are shown on some timetable printouts (e.g. Network Rail's PDF WTTs, I believe?) and it's also shown on Real Time Trains and the like. They're also shown on the side of some trains, e.g. XC Voyagers.

Want to pick up on this. RSIDs are commonly derived from the 'headcode' field in the NR scheduling data - but that doesn't tell the whole picture. RSIDs are actually a completely different field in the timetable data and are output separately in a separate version of the timetable data feed that comes from RDG and are not in the Network Rail data.

RDG/RSP also add a lot more RSIDs to train services, so anything deriving from the NR data isn't telling the full story. Not that their version of the timetable is entirely correct either but that's a totally different matter. I've got 15693 train schedules in my database that should have a headcode (or RSID) and don't.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I don't believe an advance ticket can be sold without at least a counted place reservation.

Depends how you define it. I can book an advance St Ives to Paddington and there are no reservations at all from St Ives, not even counted place. Although there is a technical limit based on the number of advances available at St Erth. Given some of the tight connection times at St Erth I've travelled earlier from St Ives without issue.

 

[Gaelan]

Depends how you define it. I can book an advance St Ives to Paddington and there are no reservations at all from St Ives, not even counted place. Although there is a technical limit based on the number of advances available at St Erth. Given some of the tight connection times at St Erth I've travelled earlier from St Ives without issue.

But you do get a reservation for the St Erth - Paddington leg, no? I just meant that you had to get a reservation for one leg, not every leg.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Depends how you define it.

The only way the system can mandate a specific train is through the issuing of a reservation. The “counted place” reservations appeared as a workaround for TOCs who don’t otherwise issue reservations.

Connections won’t necessarily have a counted place, but the overall journey will need at least one leg with at least a counted place reservation.