what should i expect when being prosecuted

[Sthrowaway123]

Hello all , ill start off nice and simple , im a naive and young lad (17 turning 18) . I am asking for a bit of a heads up to what to expect as i was stopped by inspectors today having a child ticket with a veterans rail card ,my first offence . This landed me a prosecution i am awaiting a letter ; i am aware that trainline and thameslink go through your purchase history i have been doing this for around 4-5 months (very stupid i know) . After this morning I have completely stopped since i noticed there isn't a point in doing it and is it possible to get a round about figure on what my fine might be.
Thank you

 

[Huntergreed]

We need a lot more detail:

Where have you been travelling to/from?

Which stations have you been buying your tickets from?

How have you got a “child ticket with a veterans railcard”? You should only be able to use one or the other!

There’s still a chance you may be able to gain an out of court settlement, but it will require a very well drafted letter and for you to truly convince them this will never happen again.

 

[Sthrowaway123]

We need a lot more detail:

Where have you been travelling to/from?

Which stations have you been buying your tickets from?

How have you got a “child ticket with a veterans railcard”? You should only be able to use one or the other!

There’s still a chance you may be able to gain an out of court settlement, but it will require a very well drafted letter and for you to truly convince them this will never happen again.

Travelling to Harpenden from leagrave
I have been buying an E ticket
I bought a child ticket adding a veterans rail card using thameslink
thanks for your reply

 

[skyhigh]

How have you got a “child ticket with a veterans railcard”? You should only be able to use one or the other!

Why?

"You as the cardholder can buy tickets for your named companion and up to four children as long as they are travelling with you."

Thameslink's website will sell a sole Child ticket with the Railcard discount, which is presumably helpful in the rare case that a Veterans Railcard holder who already has a ticket and changes their plans to bring a child with them can buy the ticket they need.

 

[Huntergreed]

Why?

Thameslink's website will sell a sole Child ticket with the Railcard discount, which is presumably helpful in the rare case that a Veterans Railcard holder who already has a ticket and changes their plans to bring a child with them can buy the ticket they need.

Fair point. I didn’t think of this context have to admit.

 

[Sthrowaway123]

Fair point. I didn’t think of this context have to admit.

hello huntergreed, sorry for bothering you but would you have an around about figure of what i may be fined or anything i could say in court.

 

[skyhigh]

This landed me a prosecution i am awaiting a letter

is it possible to get a round about figure on what my fine might be.

You need to wait for them to send you the letter and see what they say. You may be able to arrange an out of court settlement, though this will likely be expensive. They will probably take the Anytime Single or Return fare (£7.10 or £9.70) and multiply it by the number of times you've travelled and then add an admin fee (potentially around £100-200) on top. It's not guaranteed they will offer this though.

Assuming you were commuting 5 days a week for 5 months, you could be looking at the best part of £1k as a settlement fee.

Given the scale of your evasion they may be less willing to settle and instead prosecute. The level of fine will depend on how many instances they look to prosecute - if they just prosecute the time you were stopped, you are probably looking in the region of £600 depending on income as a court fine.

 

[Sthrowaway123]

You need to wait for them to send you the letter and see what they say. You may be able to arrange an out of court settlement, though this will likely be expensive. They will probably take the Anytime Single or Return fare (£7.10 or £9.70) and multiply it by the number of times you've travelled and then add an admin fee (potentially around £100-200) on top. It's not guaranteed they will offer this though.

Assuming you were commuting 5 days a week for 5 months, you could be looking at the best part of £1k as a settlement fee.

Given the scale of your evasion they may be less willing to settle and instead prosecute. The level of fine will depend on how many instances they look to prosecute - if they just prosecute the time you were stopped, you are probably looking in the region of £600 depending on income as a court fine.

wow £600 ... i guess the phrase "**** around and see what happens" really is a thing . Thank you for your help i guess i have got to start looking for work.

 

[skyhigh]

wow £600 ... i guess the phrase "**** around and see what happens" really is a thing . Thank you for your help i guess i have got to start looking for work.

If you have no/low income and present evidence to the Court you may be able to get a reduced fine, though I'm afraid I can't help with how much you should expect to see the fine reduced by.

For the settlement option you can get a rough idea of how much they may want by working out how many times you avoided the fare, multiplying that by the full fare and adding £200 on.

 

[Haywain]

They will probably take the Anytime Single or Return fare (£7.10 or £9.70)

Small point but the return is £10.70.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2023 ==

im a naive and young lad (17 turning 18)

How long is it until you turn 18? There is a railcard available to you but whether it is worth getting depends on when your birthday comes round.

 

[WesternLancer]

wow £600 ... i guess the phrase "**** around and see what happens" really is a thing . Thank you for your help i guess i have got to start looking for work.

You need to head back here for more precise advice on what to do when you hear from the railway company. on order to try and get the 'least worst' outcome

Be aware they can track your on line purchases (whoever you bought tickets from)

Do anything you can now to act legitimately with all ticket purchases (eg buy season ticket or railcard etc if that helps)

 

[skyhigh]

Small point but the return is £10.70.

Thanks, my mistake.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

If you get fined by a court then you’ll be able to pay in instalments. Not so with any out-of-court settlement they offer you the chance of paying.

 

[Sthrowaway123]

Small point but the return is £10.70.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2023 ==


How long is it until you turn 18? There is a railcard available to you but whether it is worth getting depends on when your birthday comes round.

i have a valid 16-17 rail card as i am still 17

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2023 ==

You need to head back here for more precise advice on what to do when you hear from the railway company. on order to try and get the 'least worst' outcome

Be aware they can track your on line purchases (whoever you bought tickets from)

Do anything you can now to act legitimately with all ticket purchases (eg buy season ticket or railcard etc if that helps)

okay perfect thank you , i will return once i receive the letter . How many days or weeks would it be until i receive .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2023 ==

@Mcr Warrior is it possible if you could explain how to achieve an "out of court" settlement, thank you.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2023 ==

@Mcr Warrior is it possible if you could explain how to achieve an "out of court" settlement, thank you.

First, you'll need to wait until you hear from the Train Company's investigation team, and see what exactly they have to say on the matter. What you'll then be wanting NOT to happen is to ignore the correspondence and be taken to court, as, from what you've told us, there's every chance you'll be found guilty, and so end up with a fine and/or a court conviction, especially if any of the ticketing offences have taken place AFTER you've turned 18.

In such circumstances, if you engage positively with the train company's investigation team, once you hear from them that is, and if you offer to any unpaid fares due and also to cover their admin and investigation costs, it's probable that they will accept that as settlement of the matter, and so not take you to court.

So, when you receive the letter in due course, can you post a photo or pic of same on here, with your name and address and any case reference number info all suitably obscured, and we'll do our best with suggestions /recommendations to help you take it from there. Good luck!

 

[Hadders]

Did you tell the inspector that you were 17?

And one thing you should do, if you haven't already done so, is tell your parents.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Did you tell the inspector that you were 17?

And one thing you should do, if you haven't already done so, is tell your parents.

To expand a little on this, if the railway know that you are under 18 then they will write to your parents rather than you. And if the first they know of this matter is when they get the letter, they’re unlikely to be very happy with you. So it would make sense to start explaining what has happened sooner rather than later.

 

[Sthrowaway123]

First, you'll need to wait until you hear from the Train Company's investigation team, and see what exactly they have to say on the matter. What you'll then be wanting NOT to happen is to ignore the correspondence and be taken to court, as, from what you've told us, there's every chance you'll be found guilty, and so end up with a fine and/or a court conviction, especially if any of the ticketing offences have taken place AFTER you've turned 18.

In such circumstances, if you engage positively with the train company's investigation team, once you hear from them that is, and if you offer to any unpaid fares due and also to cover their admin and investigation costs, it's probable that they will accept that as settlement of the matter, and so not take you to court.

So, when you receive the letter in due course, can you post a photo or pic of same on here, with your name and address and any case reference number info all suitably obscured, and we'll do our best with suggestions /recommendations to help you take it from there. Good luck!

Thank you for your advice , and yes ill just have to wait and see what it says on the letter; again thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2023 ==

Did you tell the inspector that you were 17?

And one thing you should do, if you haven't already done so, is tell your parents.

yes i told them i was 17, and I explained the situation to my parents . Is there any circumstance that the prosecution date may be after my birthday as im turning 18 In January .

 

[island]

yes i told them i was 17, and I explained the situation to my parents . Is there any circumstance that the prosecution date may be after my birthday as im turning 18 In January .

Yes, it's possible.

 

[Haywain]

Is there any circumstance that the prosecution date may be after my birthday as im turning 18 In January .

A prosecution could take place afetr you are 18 but it will not alter the fact that you committed an offence as a minor.

 

[Puffing Devil]

A prosecution could take place afetr you are 18 but it will not alter the fact that you committed an offence as a minor.

Though you would appear in the Adult Court and be subject to the adult penalties. In the Youth Court the default sentence for a first offence is a referral order, though the court may deviate from this and impose a fine if they believe it's more appropriate.

Many TOCs will not pursue a prosecution in the Youth Court, adhering to the principle of keeping youths away from the formal criminal justice system wherever possible.

 

[Sthrowaway123]

Though you would appear in the Adult Court and be subject to the adult penalties. In the Youth Court the default sentence for a first offence is a referral order, though the court may deviate from this and impose a fine if they believe it's more appropriate.

Many TOCs will not pursue a prosecution in the Youth Court, adhering to the principle of keeping youths away from the formal criminal justice system wherever possible.

My main issue is getting a criminal record as it would affect my chances of getting into university.

 

[AlterEgo]

My main issue is getting a criminal record as it would affect my chances of getting into university.

Not for most courses it wouldn't.

 

[Puffing Devil]

My main issue is getting a criminal record as it would affect my chances of getting into university.

It's unlikely to be an issue unless you want to study Medicine, Social Work or Teaching. More information on the UCAS Website.

Also, if you are prosecited as a youth in the Youth Court, offences become spent (do not need to be declared in many cases) more quickly than in the adult court. More here.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It's unlikely to be an issue unless you want to study Medicine, Social Work or Teaching. More information on the UCAS Website.

And for social work and teaching, a single minor conviction will realistically not be a problem: it will have to be declared and considered by the university but from what I have seen would be unlikely to lead to being refused admission.

 

[Sthrowaway123]

It's unlikely to be an issue unless you want to study Medicine, Social Work or Teaching. More information on the UCAS Website.

Also, if you are prosecited as a youth in the Youth Court, offences become spent (do not need to be declared in many cases) more quickly than in the adult court. More here.

I see , so it would affect me as I’m trying to get into dentistry / dental therapy. Thank you I’ll look into it more .

 

[Undiscovered]

I see , so it would affect me as I’m trying to get into dentistry / dental therapy. Thank you I’ll look into it more .

Possibly.

There's a thread on this section where a prospective medical student was caught with a ticket irregularity and, upon informing their universities, was told that their place was deferred upon condition of writing a sufficiently contrite letter of apology.
Medical schools tend to look at any convictions in great detail.

Thread here:

I used my brothers 16-18 oyster card and then got rejected from medical school. HELP!

So I've recently been rejected from a medical school because of my recent criminal conviction. Back on 23rd August I was caught using my brothers 16-18 oyster card. I was honest to the ticket inspector when he ask whose it was. I sent an apology letter to TFL and also tried to settle the case...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I see , so it would affect me as I’m trying to get into dentistry / dental therapy. Thank you I’ll look into it more .

Have a look at the General Dental Council’s material. On the basis of their ‘Guidance for decision makers on the impact of criminal convictions and cautions‘ at https://www.gdc-uk.org/docs/default-source/privacy/convictions-and-cautions-guidance.pdf, a minor criminal conviction isn’t an absolute bar on practising. It’s probably worth asking the universities that you’re thinking of applying to: I’d expect them to take a similar line to the GDC (there’s no point in them training someone who won’t be able to get a job at the end of their course) but they may vary in quite how strict they are. The universities probably won’t give you a definite yes/no answer until you actually apply (they’re busy people and aren’t resourced to deal with hypothetical questions) but they may be able to give you a general idea.

 

[greyman42]

There's a thread on this section where a prospective medical student was caught with a ticket irregularity and, upon informing their universities, was told that their place was deferred upon condition of writing a sufficiently contrite letter of apology.

Is this some form of childish punishment?

 

[island]

Is this some form of childish punishment?

Perhaps, or perhaps it is a university's way of whittling down applicants by seeing how serious they were.