Plessey Viaduct (North of Newcastle): suggestions/possibilities/predictions and any other speculation

[yorkie]

This thread is for people to post any ideas/suggestions or any other form of speculation relating to the problems at Plessey Viaduct.

 

[Killingworth]

Access to the viaduct will be difficult from the deep wooded valley below. 18 months seems a fair assessment and must include major disruption to the ECML, possibly total closure for months if further weakness is found. Looking at the pictures running even limited services must be a big concern.

 

[AndrewE]

Access to the viaduct will be difficult from the deep wooded valley below. 18 months seems a fair assessment and must include major disruption to the ECML, possibly total closure for months if further weakness is found. Looking at the pictures running even limited services must be a big concern.

Looking at the picture in post #15 it is clear that there have already been significant problems with either pier or arch stability...

I wonder at what stage a full (emergency) replacement would be embarked on? The fact that it is listed (only grade 2) wouldn't really matter if it was likely to fall down anyway, as this is a key bit of transport infrastructure.

 

[Killingworth]

Looking at the picture in post #15 it is clear that there have already been significant problems with either pier or arch stability...

I wonder at what stage a full (emergency) replacement would be embarked on? The fact that it is listed (only grade 2) wouldn't really matter if it was likely to fall down anyway, as this is a key bit of transport infrastructure.

Some might suggest a totally new bridge to the east as part of an improved fast Morpeth avoiding line. The old bridge to be retained as a single track for access to Morpeth. But that would take 20 years or more to build.

Stephenson (and others) built parallel wooden trestle bridges to make faster progress before stone bridges like here at Plessey could be completed.

 

[androdas]

The Blyth and Tyne is open and has been through most of the work for the new stations, a large amount has been re-laid as well. The Biomass trains are running today, this went past my house about a half hour ago. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H41621/2023-10-09/detailed#allox_id=0

That said there is probably no advantage over the single line running on the viaduct unless the whole job gets stopped as a lot of the route except between Bedlington and Blyth is single track and the loops / re-signalling isn't finished yet.

 

[Farigiraf]

Can't they divert some particularly important trains eg peak time LNERs via Blyth or would that disrupt the metro?

 

[swt_passenger]

Can't they divert some particularly important trains eg peak time LNERs via Blyth or would that disrupt the metro?

The Metro and NR tracks are not connected at all in that area, they’re parallel for much of the route, but completely separate.

 

[800001]

Can't they divert some particularly important trains eg peak time LNERs via Blyth or would that disrupt the metro?

LNER crews do not sign that route.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Disruption now expected to end of day November 3rd according to LNER.

A month does sound a bit more of a feasible timescale for fixing a mess like that!

I wonder if had it been longer they'd consider moving the Morpeth crossover a short way north or south so it didn't cause train length issues calling there?

 

[androdas]

I wonder if had it been longer they'd consider moving the Morpeth crossover a short way north or south so it didn't cause train length issues calling there?

Not sure that is possible, its mid platform so trains can access the Blyth & Tyne and the reversing siding. Would be useful though if they could cross over north of the loops.

 

[Sonik]

Of course this is inevitably going to force many Scotland travelers onto Avanti, clogging up WCML with overloaded trains for months

Going to make the Government's cancellation of HS2 look really clever!

 

[30907]

Of course this is inevitably going to force many Scotland travelers onto Avanti, clogging up WCML with overloaded trains for months

While it is going to mess up EC punctuality, the present plan provides for 3tph each way, which is not far short of the full long-distance service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Going to make the Government's cancellation of HS2 look really clever!

HS2 is irrelevant as no plan ever took it to Scotland.

 

[Sonik]

HS2 is irrelevant as no plan ever took it to Scotland.

That's true, but it's not a good look. I'm sure plenty of people will make a fuss about it if Avanti gets busy.

 

[Zoonose]

Just re-open Hepscott station and run trains down the coastal route?!

 

[D6130]

Just re-open Hepscott station and run trains down the coastal route?!

Welcome to the Forum! Unfortunately it's not quite as simple as that. As discussed upthread, Lumo would not be able to run that way as their units are electric only....and the costs and time delay of hiring, coupling and uncoupling diesel locomotives would be prohibitive. Then there is the cost of reopening Hepscott station. Do the platforms still exist? If the line does have to be shut for viaduct repairs or reconstruction, it would be easier and probably cheaper to divert via Hexham and Carstairs South....as was the case last weekend when the viaduct problem occurred.

 

[najaB]

If the line does have to be shut for viaduct repairs or reconstruction, it would be easier and probably cheaper to divert via Hexham and Carstairs South....as was the case last weekend when the viaduct problem occurred.

I think that, if the line needs to shut for an extended period, both routes should be used.

 

[Kentp]

Going to make the Government's cancellation of HS2 look really clever!

It's perfect timing, with all the money they've saved they'll have the viaduct open in a few days looking good as new.......

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Just re-open Hepscott station and run trains down the coastal route?!

The possibility of running ECML trains via the Northumberland Line (aka the Blyth & Tyne) was discussed earlier in this thread.

Other problems were mentioned in addition to those in D6030's reply.

But even if running the trains was possible and an effective solution, it will still be a time-consuming complication - not least in terms of safety issues both on the railway and in access - to try to reopen a station that's been closed to passengers for over 70 years.

 

[androdas]

The independent coffee shop in Morpeth station has endured quite a torrid 18 months with weeks of industrial action, engineering blockades and now

The coffee shop is an excellent addition to the refurbished Morpeth, rare nowadays not to have a chain in a station.

Now they know how long its going to take and have established the viaduct isn't in immediate danger, hence the lifting of the 5mph speed limit, can nothing be done to provide Morpeth with even an hourly Northern service southbound given it has around 400,000 annual users in the last figures.

I understand they were taken off to preserve paths for long distance trains but things have moved on from there. It must be technically possible for Northern to call at platform 2 southbound as the Chathill flyer and last service still call southbound or would that stop some of the long distance services from running.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

Now they know how long its going to take and have established the viaduct isn't in immediate danger, hence the lifting of the 5mph speed limit, can nothing be done to provide Morpeth with even an hourly Northern service southbound given it has around 400,000 annual users in the last figures.

I understand they were taken off to preserve paths for long distance trains but things have moved on from there. It must be technically possible for Northern to call at platform 2 southbound as the Chathill flyer and last service still call southbound or would that stop some of the long distance services from running.

I’m not expert but I think it is because the Chathill Flyer doesn’t have to crossover to the Blyth and Tyne for the return service as other Northern Trains do when they terminate at Morpeth.

These crossovers are being used as part of the bi-di working and the Northern Morpeth service will interfere with that.

Morpeth, and indeed Cramlington, are decent sized commuter towns and it will be also be interesting when Newcastle play at home as it gets busy.

I noticed this morning that The Chathill Flyer this morning was a 2 x 156.

 

[androdas]

Everything has to use platform 2 at Morpeth, north or south, as the crossover is beyond mid platform signal to allow access to the Blyth and Tyne. I think it would be better if everyone had a slightly slower rail service for the disruption period rather than slightly delayed expresses and South East Northumberland gets busses.

 

[30907]

Everything has to use platform 2 at Morpeth, north or south, as the crossover is beyond mid platform signal to allow access to the Blyth and Tyne. I think it would be better if everyone had a slightly slower rail service for the disruption period rather than slightly delayed expresses and South East Northumberland gets busses.

I don't see how you propose to do this, though? I presume you could have those southbound XCs which are 4-or 5-car calling at Morpeth, but would you still be able to get 3tph each way.

 

[HSTEd]

The viaduct is only ~130m long, in theory an extradosed bridge could do it with no intermediate supports in the valley, which would ease maintenance and construction.

But even that is going to take months even if they brute force a simple bridge design.

Ultimately, this is what happens when you depend on ancient infrastructure with difficult repair/maintenance access.

 

[swt_passenger]

The viaduct is only ~130m long, in theory an extradosed bridge could do it with no intermediate supports in the valley, which would ease maintenance and construction.

But even that is going to take months even if they brute force a simple bridge design.

Ultimately, this is what happens when you depend on ancient infrastructure with difficult repair/maintenance access.

Nobody has seriously suggested the bridge can’t be repaired though, have they?

 

[HSTEd]

Nobody has seriously suggested the bridge can’t be repaired though, have they?

Not yet anyway, but these sorts of jobs do have a nasty habit of getting bigger and bigger the more you look into them.#

 

[androdas]

I don't see how you propose to do this, though? I presume you could have those southbound XCs which are 4-or 5-car calling at Morpeth, but would you still be able to get 3tph each way.

Is there no scope to bring back the northern stopper, it was taken off when there was a 5 mph TSR on the wrong line working, I understand from other posts that is now 50 mph.

It would still be able to access the reversing siding on the Blyth and Tyne and use platform 2 as it is only ever a 2 car 156/8 extremely rarely 4 car.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Are diversions using Newcastle to Carlisle out of the question? Again, it would require diesel haulage for a substantial chunk. So I suppose I have answered my own question.

 

[30907]

Is there no scope to bring back the northern stopper, it was taken off when there was a 5 mph TSR on the wrong line working, I understand from other posts that is now 50 mph.

It improves matters as it looks as though you can get a train through every 4-5 min, so I think it might be theoretically possible on the hours when there's no Lumo - if everything ran to time that is.

 

[mike57]

The Blyth and Tyne is open and has been through most of the work for the new stations, a large amount has been re-laid as well. The Biomass trains are running today, this went past my house about a half hour ago. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H41621/2023-10-09/detailed#allox_id=0

That said there is probably no advantage over the single line running on the viaduct unless the whole job gets stopped as a lot of the route except between Bedlington and Blyth is single track and the loops / re-signalling isn't finished yet.

If the issues turn out to be worse than first thought and the repairs will take a lot longer than first thought (which seems possible) could you use the Blyth and Tyne one way and the remaining single track the other, at least during the day. If biomass trains need to use the diversion bi directionally could that run at night. Trains scheduled to call at Morpeth could stop at Pegswood, with a shuttle bus to Morpeth