Helsby-ellesmere port line

[tbtc]

Interesting idea that and if they are going to miss stops out a sensible one.

It works well elsewhere. The fast Shotts service eastbound (Glasgow to Edinburgh) becomes the slow Shotts service westbound, and vice versa.

Ensures that all trains/ crews get the same amount of catch up time.

 

[northwichcat]

Now I would be interested into how they got the figure of 75,266 per annum from?

If it is from ticket sales then I think the fact that until recently the station had no TVM nor was it part of the Penalty Fare scheme. I strongly suspect there has been a sharp rise in ticket sales from Capenhurst.

The point I am trying to make is that a stop at Capenhurst for the sake of continuity is of more benefit than not stopping. It's confusing to passengers to find that every other train doesn't stop at Capenhurst.

What are figures for Bache compared to Capenhurst? That also had no TVM and wasn't part of the Penalty Fares scheme.

75,226 is the most recent figure and an increase of over 50% from 44,215 two years prior. Bache is 105,00 from the most recent stats and was 53,000 two years prior.

A combination of new ticket barriers at Chester and extension of the penalty fare scheme will be big contributors to those increases.

People seem to cope OK with different stopping patterns on Manchester Oxford Rd to Liverpool services.
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Very low, it's hardly Stanlow and Thornton is it?

I've given you figures that demonstrate that Capenhurst is very low compared to stations with a less frequent service. Padgate on the Manchester to Liverpool line is an unstaffed station and has similar passenger counts to Capenhurst but every other stopper goes through the station leaving it with an hourly service.

 

[9K43]

Went both ways on that railway from Stanlow Gas.
We had this job for 7 years out and back, 4/5 days a week.
Now Stanlow Gas is no more, and Ellesemere Port Yard is duff.
The Gas Tanks have been cut up at Rotherham, and HM has been sunk and shut.

 

[frodshamfella]

Nice idea; it'd take a little of the pressure off the Manchester - Chester services, it may even encourage some on the Wirral to change at Elsemere for Manchester trips, rather than going into central Liverpool.

Although I for one would much rather arrive at Piccadilly,than Victoria. Always felt that station was a bit out of it, and not useful for onward connections

 

[robert2000]

all we need is a class 139 running between frodsham and ellesmere port during the day.

dont forget, ince and elton villages get no sunday bus/train service, somthing to think about there.

wasnt chester - manchester proposed to be every half hourly via warrington, where will ATW find more 175s from. mind you FGW are due to give ARW back 4 158s.

 

[tbtc]

FGW are due to give ARW back 4 158s.

I knew they were giving 150s back, but 158s?

 

[MCR247]

It is 150s, not 158s

 

[robert2000]

ok, my mistake, what could ATW do with the 4 extra 150s?

Heart of wales and Conwy Valley. This could allow 153s to be doubled up to two carriage.

 

[tbtc]

ok, my mistake, what could ATW do with the 4 extra 150s?

Heart of wales and Conwy Valley. This could allow 153s to be doubled up to two carriage.

Since I've heard no specific plans I'd assume they'll use them for additional capacity on Valley Lines (maybe by adding eight single cars to make three car units?)

 

[northwichcat]

Although I for one would much rather arrive at Piccadilly,than Victoria. Always felt that station was a bit out of it, and not useful for onward connections

Yes I prefer Piccadilly for onwards connections as well but Deansgate-Ardwick is at maximum capacity at peak times so any new service would have to go to Victoria unless an existing service is diverted.

Ideally a Victoria-Ellesmere Port service would connect with an existing service from/to Piccadilly at Newton-le-Willows.

 

[robert2000]

ok i have a plan, lets all arrange to meet up and use the helsby to ellesmere port train, that would surprise the guard, 1 random day, 30 passengers turned up, lol imagine that.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

ok i have a plan, lets all arrange to meet up and use the helsby to ellesmere port train, that would surprise the guard, 1 random day, 30 passengers turned up, lol imagine that.

lol, people do that at Denton and Tees-side Apt

 

[robert2000]

the worse one would be 100 passengers waiting at hopton heath (shrops), after a big party, lol

 

[merlodlliw]

ok i have a plan, lets all arrange to meet up and use the helsby to ellesmere port train, that would surprise the guard, 1 random day, 30 passengers turned up, lol imagine that.

I presume you mean the very very early departure 0630 ish better not be at The Shell or a few blue lights will be flashing
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

the worse one would be 100 passengers waiting at hopton heath (shrops), after a big party, lol

knowing the population of the village, it would have to be a rave

 

[robert2000]

yes total rave, and buying tickets to knucklas, lol

 

[merlodlliw]

ok, my mistake, what could ATW do with the 4 extra 150s?

Heart of wales and Conwy Valley. This could allow 153s to be doubled up to two carriage.

150s on the Junction to Blaenau line & HOWL already, intermingled with the awful 153s.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Now I remember in the early 80's travelling to Liverpool from Helsby via Rock Ferry. The service was well used. Due to electrification, this then changed to Hooton and of course now the Helsby to Ellesmere Port service is all but a Parliamentary one.
I believe the reason that electrification was not installed all the way to Helsby was because of objections from Shell. Am I correct in believing that the plant that could have been affected from flashover from a third rail has now been removed and there is nothing to prevent electrification to Helsby taking place other that cost? I know there are issues regarding passenger numbers but if you have a service that only provides 4 trains a day at times no-one wants to travel at, what can you expect? Commuting from Helsby to Manchester has never been more popular. Why not to Liverpool and the Wirral (car parking aside)?

 

[merlodlliw]

Now I remember in the early 80's travelling to Liverpool from Helsby via Rock Ferry. The service was well used. Due to electrification, this then changed to Hooton and of course now the Helsby to Ellesmere Port service is all but a Parliamentary one.
I believe the reason that electrification was not installed all the way to Helsby was because of objections from Shell. Am I correct in believing that the plant that could have been affected from flashover from a third rail has now been removed and there is nothing to prevent electrification to Helsby taking place other that cost? I know there are issues regarding passenger numbers but if you have a service that only provides 4 trains a day at times no-one wants to travel at, what can you expect? Commuting from Helsby to Manchester has never been more popular. Why not to Liverpool and the Wirral (car parking aside)?

You are correct in your observation, the line Hooton to Helsby was due for 3rd rail and the money was on the table, as the line runs through the refinery,shell objected to the 3rd rail Ellesmere Port to Helsby, due to flash-overs in an emergency. I am not aware this as been rectified, all 3rd rail lines have flash-over
If the line did not run through the refinery things may be different with at least an half hour service. I agree the current service is pure farce with hardly a passenger.

Bob

 

[Cheshire Rover]

You are correct in your observation, the line Hooton to Helsby was due for 3rd rail and the money was on the table, as the line runs through the refinery,shell objected to the 3rd rail Ellesmere Port to Helsby, due to flash-overs in an emergency. I am not aware this as been rectified, all 3rd rail lines have flash-over
If the line did not run through the refinery things may be different with at least an half hour service. I agree the current service is pure farce with hardly a passenger.

Bob

Thanks Bob. I was under the impression that Shell objected due to the proximity of a gas plant to the line that no longer exists.

 

[merlodlliw]

Thanks Bob. I was under the impression that Shell objected due to the proximity of a gas plant to the line that no longer exists.

Well you may well be correct about a certain piece of plant, but it was due to an escape of petro chemical fume situation, with the line being in the site,
so a flash-over could ignite the fume, this fume is of course volatile & more heavy than air, any escape usually ends up in the drains.
I recall it was the entire site that was the sticking point, a shame really that everyone needs to go to Chester for Manchester

Bob

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Well you may well be correct about a certain piece of plant, but it was due to an escape of petro chemical fume situation, with the line being in the site,
so a flash-over could ignite the fume, this fume is of course volatile & more heavy than air, any escape usually ends up in the drains.
I recall it was the entire site that was the sticking point, a shame really that everyone needs to go to Chester for Manchester

Bob

It would be a cheap(ish), quick and simple improvement. Shame it cannot go ahead.

 

[merlodlliw]

It would be a cheap(ish), quick and simple improvement. Shame it cannot go ahead.

Not so cheap now, seeing how NR cost, anyhow all in the past, a golden opportunity missed due to running a passenger line through an oil refinery.

The line is only kept open for freight to Shell & Kommena, the passenger service is just a pure token,run at times when no one will ever use them.


Bob

 

[vjm1975]

I used this stretch of line a couple of months back. The first time since around 1990. I was travelling to Ellesmere Port, back from Manchester. I normally go via Liverpool, but missed the train, so caught the Chester bound one. With that running late, it worked out it gave me a good connection at Helsby to get the E.Port shuttle.

So had a class 156 all to myself. Minus the Guard & Driver of course. The guard was rather Surprised to see someone waiting, enquiring as to whether I was on the correct train, and pointing out that he had to ask as there is never anyone on it normally.

Made a nice change taking that route back, and saved quite a bit of time on the journey. Shame the line was allowed to get to such a level of service. I remember the 30 minute frequency of the Chester - Helsby via Hooton service, and whilst never amazingly busy beyond Ellesmere Port, it was well used.

For the unaware, I would imagine getting off the Merseyrail service at Ellesmere Port would feel like you have been dumped in the middle of nowhere, given it's location on the very edge of town.

 

[frodshamfella]

I took a ride on this line a coupe of Saturdays ago....as previous contributor.....no one on it, did it for fun really....such a shame its not made more of.

 

[merlodlliw]

I took a ride on this line a coupe of Saturdays ago....as previous contributor.....no one on it, did it for fun really....such a shame its not made more of.

this is the reason why no one uses the service Mon/Sat, if you want to shift fresh air, this is the way

Helsby to E Port d 0603 0633 1517 1548

Ellesmere Port to Helsby d 0619 0656 1534 1604


Bob

 

[OxtedL]

Has anyone considered trying to organise a facebook mass passenge?

(I may have fabricated some words)

 

[connor7777]

Not a bad idea, like create an even or something, 1 of us should do that

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Trouble with one-off events is that you overload one, maybe two, trains on just one day, trying to make a point, yet for the other 300+ days a year it's dead anyway. All you'll succeed in doing is getting quite a few people on a 156!

 

[connor7777]

Well lets cap 50 people then.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Well lets cap 50 people then.

That's not the point, you could get 200 people on it in one of your events, at the end of the day, the other 1,000 trains over it a year would still be dead!