Caledonian Sleeper

[BRX]

I suspect but can’t prove use of road transport comes down to who get blamed.

I’m train crew and have been on numerous taxi rides of 3+ hours on motorways while the railway next door is closed or has a blanket speed limit in place due to weather.

The taxi is however ploughing through standing water at 70mph with other vehicles following closely behind.

I expect that if the taxi crashes the railway will claim that the risk assessment was already in place ie DVLA licences the driver, local authority licences the driver to drive taxis etc.

I’ve raised this many times and the helpful answer is always “if the driver is going too fast or you feel they are dangerous tell him then to pull over and we’ll get another taxi” (in the middle of nowhere in bad weather).

I’m surprised the unions never care about the length of Traincrew taxi rides given the likelihood of road vehicle accidents compared to cars. And the same obviously applies to passenger safety.

Good on you for raising it as an issue though!

It would be rather interesting to see things get challenged legally.

For example a claim that a taxi trip has been "risk assessed" already, whether by DVLA or whoever, wouldn't that risk assessment be made in the context of it basically already having been decided that the journey was going to be made in a road vehicle with a hired driver, etc. That's not the case for someone with a rail ticket in their hand.

 

[PG]

I’ve raised this many times and the helpful answer is always “if the driver is going too fast or you feel they are dangerous tell him then to pull over and we’ll get another taxi” (in the middle of nowhere in bad weather).

If it costs TOCs (in delay attribution due to lack of crew) then, eventually, they might re-evaluate the wholescale utilisation of ferrying staff in taxis...

 

[Bill57p9]

Good on you for raising it as an issue though!

It would be rather interesting to see things get challenged legally.

For example a claim that a taxi trip has been "risk assessed" already, whether by DVLA or whoever, wouldn't that risk assessment be made in the context of it basically already having been decided that the journey was going to be made in a road vehicle with a hired driver, etc. That's not the case for someone with a rail ticket in their hand.

In terms of train crew though, if you were to be injured in a taxi that would be a work accident and I would argue a RIDDOR. Certainly your first port of legal call would be your employer. They would of course pursue the taxi provider.

Anyway, back on topic. The issue was more that the Wednesday morning Fort William and Aberdeen services were cancelled from Edinburgh. Unsure about Aberdeen however the WHL was completely closed between Crianlarich and Fort William for most of the day. As a result the stock was still in the central belt come Wednesday evening.
For the record, it was coupled to the Edinburgh portion and taken over to Polmadie for servicing.

 

[185143]

Did the Sleeper again from Fort William tonight as far as Arrochar & Tarbet.

Change of Scenery from the ironing boards I've been sat on all day, having been to both Oban and Mallaig, not that I saw anything outside from the Sleeper aside from the Belmond Royal Scotsman at Tulloch. One of the several friendly crew even came into the seats to see if anyone wanted any refreshments which was good of them.

My only complaint was with regards to booking onto the train. I contacted CS this morning and was told it was sold out in the seats from Fort William so apologised for the fact I wouldn't be able to use the service. A bit surprising but if it's booked it's booked. I decided to chance my arm at the ticket office at Fort William and ask for a reservation. Issued no problem and I got a single seat. Once onboard, around one in three seats were taken. The TM confirmed the seats were nowhere near sold out and couldn't understand why I'd been told that.

I did check earlier and the seats were sold out for Fort William to  London but not Edinburgh, or even Arrochar & Tarbet. I know they've never been overly happy about having to carry local passengers on the WHL, but surely this is a blatant attempt to discourage local use?

I also tried to book on the service this morning at some point yesterday afternoon and was told told same thing. I'm wondering how true that was now.

 

[BRX]

I think you should make a complaint about that, it's not the first report of that happening and if they are deliberately trying to put people off using the day seats they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. If it's not deliberate then they need to sort their systems out.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Agreed, bad behaviour in the first place but even harder to justify now Scott gov are directly running this

 

[185143]

I think you should make a complaint about that, it's not the first report of that happening and if they are deliberately trying to put people off using the day seats they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. If it's not deliberate then they need to sort their systems out.

That's interesting and quite concerning.

Given how busy the ScotRail services have been today up here and the fact it's apparently a bank holiday weekend in Scotland I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt for this morning that it genuinely was fully booked.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Avanti 1m20 currently blocking the up main at kirtlebridge going on 3hrs now, looks like going to be some sort of delay at least on the southbound sleeper tonight

 

[popeter45]

Once again the southbound lowlander is 30 minutes early into Euston, feels like that's always the case, feels disingenuous to advertise a 7am arrival when in reality they seem to aim for 6:30 as they never attempt to correct along the journey

 

[Deafdoggie]

Once again the southbound lowlander is 30 minutes early into Euston, feels like that's always the case, feels disingenuous to advertise a 7am arrival when in reality they seem to aim for 6:30 as they never attempt to correct along the journey

Why would anyone complain about arriving early?
Why should the train sit somewhere en route for 30 minutes rather than carry on to London?

 

[3rd rail land]

Why would anyone complain about arriving early?
Why should the train sit somewhere en route for 30 minutes rather than carry on to London?

Exactly. Anyway you don't have to vacate the train until the advertised time.

 

[John Bishop]

Exactly. Anyway you don't have to vacate the train until the advertised time.

Let’s not go here again!

 

[Caleb2010]

Travelled on the highlander last night to Inverness, despite being in a cabin where the thermostat either provided you with heat - or nothing, it was a good journey, though, for me sweltering!

I gave up at Edinburgh and set my laptop up, got quite a bit done in the wee small hours.

Speaking to one of the station hosts before boarding and she let slip that, maybe in a couple of weeks there could a date for the opening of the sleeper lounge on Platform 1 at Euston.

That’ll please Avanti hosts I’m sure.

 

[popeter45]

Travelled on the highlander last night to Inverness, despite being in a cabin where the thermostat either provided you with heat - or nothing, it was a good journey, though, for me sweltering!

I gave up at Edinburgh and set my laptop up, got quite a bit done in the wee small hours.

Speaking to one of the station hosts before boarding and she let slip that, maybe in a couple of weeks there could a date for the opening of the sleeper lounge on Platform 1 at Euston.

That’ll please Avanti hosts I’m sure.

that would explain why they have changed the lowlander to depart from platform 1 now rather that 15

 

[alholmes]

Adverse weather affecting tonight’s northbound Highlander. Network Rail are closing the Highland Mainline and West Highland Line from 01.00 Saturday morning for at least 24 hours, so Inverness portion diverted via Aberdeen and Fort William portion cancelled - presumably the Fort William carriages running empty to Aberdeen. No road transport being provided, due to the forecast weather.

Also affects the Midland Pullman railtour from Slough to the West Highland Line - now cancelled.

 

[Unstoppable]

No road transport due to the weather conditions yet the main coach operator throughout Scotland is running a full service plus duplicates. Another embarrassment from the railway

 

[InOban]

It's an amber warning danger to life travel not advised. So someone should be asking Citylink why they are still planning to operate.

 

[Unstoppable]

It's an amber warning danger to life travel not advised. So someone should be asking Citylink why they are still planning to operate.

Just a normal day in Scotland I’m afraid. I find the worst weather is when it isn’t forecasted. I’ve seen red weather alerts become no more than a light breeze. People need to man up and get on with it. If it becomes unsafe then stop. Got to show you’re trying. It’s a business after all. There is risk with every element of life and people are relying on you

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's an amber warning danger to life travel not advised. So someone should be asking Citylink why they are still planning to operate.

Reality is the road network is much less vulnerable to washouts and landslides and as we know a coach can navigate around obstructions and better manage their speed to prevailing conditions. The stark situation though is the railway is expected to provide a risk free journey and will be punished if it doesn't the nature of the North Scottish lines makes that impossible without imposing a very restrictive speed restriction along a whole route which makes the service unviable. No real answer to it and there are plenty of parts of Europe where lines gets suspended for weather events its just accepted.

 

[FtoE]

I notice on the ScotRail App that the suspension of all services on the WHL and HML with no bus replacement is classed as Minor Disruption

 

[Unstoppable]

I notice on the ScotRail App that the suspension of all services on the WHL and HML with no bus replacement is classed as Minor Disruption

Probably seen as minor because everyone is that used to it and just makes alternative arrangements since we have a non existent rail network. Avanti are happily running trains to Glasgow tomorrow according to their social media team as of 10 mins ago, yet Cal Sleeper are anticipating a 9am arrival into Glasgow nearly 2hrs behind. The mind boggles

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Probably seen as minor because everyone is that used to it and just makes alternative arrangements since we have a non existent rail network. Avanti are happily running trains to Glasgow tomorrow according to their social media team as of 10 mins ago, yet Cal Sleeper are anticipating a 9am arrival into Glasgow nearly 2hrs behind. The mind boggles

NR have imposed blanket speed restrictions across whole of Scotland apparently not much Caledonian can do about that. AWC aren't operating north of Preston tomorrow according to their website which i would suggest is more boggling than Cal!!

 

[Unstoppable]

NR have imposed blanket speed restrictions across whole of Scotland apparently not much Caledonian can do about that. AWC aren't operating north of Preston tomorrow according to their website which i would suggest is more boggling than Cal!!

I wonder how many employers are forgiving of their employees being late daily due to the same old excuses by the railway?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I wonder how many employers are forgiving of their employees being late daily due to the same old excuses by the railway?

Well the forecast is pretty severe but Amber warning is Central belt to the North so seems extreme for AWC to wipe out services but i guess the blanket speed is going to be 50 or less and i guess all their rostering falls apart.

 

[snookertam]

It's an amber warning danger to life travel not advised. So someone should be asking Citylink why they are still planning to operate.

Because it’s not a red weather warning. There’s no issue with a bus operator continuing to run under an amber warning.

The real reason for train services being curtailed at the first sign of trouble is that Network Rail no longer have the staff to attend any incidents on the main line, and to monitor known risk sites.

 

[Farigiraf]

For some reason this morning's sleeper seems to be approaching Edinburgh Park according to RTT
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C19440/2023-10-06/detailed#allox_id=0
A bit confused, is this last night's service and a glitch, or is this today's service but somehow not cancelled?

 

[trebor79]

It's an amber warning danger to life travel not advised. So someone should be asking Citylink why they are still planning to operate.

Be wise these warnings are ten a penny in autumn and winter and relate to weather that would have been regarded as totally unremarkable 15 years ago.
Risk to life my a....

Just a normal day in Scotland I’m afraid. I find the worst weather is when it isn’t forecasted. I’ve seen red weather alerts become no more than a light breeze. People need to man up and get on with it. If it becomes unsafe then stop. Got to show you’re trying. It’s a business after all. There is risk with every element of life and people are relying on you

This.

 

[GLC]

Be wise these warnings are ten a penny in autumn and winter and relate to weather that would have been regarded as totally unremarkable 15 years ago.
Risk to life my a....

Without wishing to stray further off topic, it was an Amber warning that was in place the night prior to the Stonehaven derailment. Given that NR officially pleaded guilty to health and safety failures only a week or two ago, their reticence to proceed with business as usual is hardly surprising

 

[Unstoppable]

Without wishing to stray further off topic, it was an Amber warning that was in place the night prior to the Stonehaven derailment. Given that NR officially pleaded guilty to health and safety failures only a week or two ago, their reticence to proceed with business as usual is hardly surprising

Stonehaven was a real shame but it is a risk of running an operational railway. Time to move on and not let every other UK traveller have to deal with what happened in an unfortunate incident. If Network Rail can’t run a service in all weather conditions then maybe it is time they hang their keys up for a company that can. The passenger comes first. Safety is extremely important but when you get to the point of stupidity and scared of a 1 in 1 million chance then you really have to question why anyone bothers to use the service

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Stonehaven was a real shame but it is a risk of running an operational railway. Time to move on and not let every other UK traveller have to deal with what happened in an unfortunate incident. If Network Rail can’t run a service in all weather conditions then maybe it is time they hang their keys up for a company that can. The passenger comes first. Safety is extremely important but when you get to the point of stupidity and scared of a 1 in 1 million chance then you really have to question why anyone bothers to use the service

I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments but society and the media doesn't and more importantly the railways have more legal enforcement than roads so until those parameters are changed this is what will happen im afraid. What is really needed is a more proportionate response to the threat faced. The Amber warning is Central Belt to the North so why are the blanket speed restrictions being imposed across the whole of Scotland and down into North England where there are no warnings.