Confirmed : HS2 West Midlands-Manchester line to be scrapped and replaced with other projects.

[Starmill]

Glad it's been cancelled.

The whole sell of it was because the extra capacity was needed.

They've told staff the numbers and income aren't there to grant a proper payrise. If that's the case, the numbers aren't there, there's no need for any of the extra capacity - cancel the whole damned thing.

We're talking about the capacity from 2035 onwards, not this year...

 

[Wolfie]

I suppose that depends on whether you think that Birmingham is England's second city.

Absolutely, despite what the deluded folk in Greater Manchester think, it is.

 

[Starmill]

And there won’t be money to reinstate it and do the other projects.

Brown lining here is the other projects may well also not get funding.

 

[Wolfie]

Could have been worse he could have used it for future tax cuts at least he laid out an alternative plan and i dont see Labour ripping that up. Today is about trying to exploit the politics and that includes the City Mayors as well as the days and weeks march on i suspect a different tune will be heard.

Alternative plan my rear end. That pile of unmitigated garbage will never happen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely, despite what the deluded folk in Greater Manchester think, it is.

They're probably on a reasonably even keel these days to be honest.

 

[Starmill]

Mine was heaving last night, southbound into Euston…

Night before a strike, no service today whatsoever. If it weren't I'd be worried!

 

[156421]

See section 45,
not sure when it became Energy Coast Line

enabled for a half hourly service (doesn't mean it will get a service at exactly 30 minutes though, they called the 26 & 34 minutes alternating frequency of Seven Beach line half hourly, when minister opened new station at Portway P&R)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651d64646a6955000d78b2e0/network-north-transforming-british-transport.pdf

Between

See section 45,
not sure when it became Energy Coast Line

enabled for a half hourly service (doesn't mean it will get a service at exactly 30 minutes though, they called the 26 & 34 minutes alternating frequency of Seven Beach line half hourly, when minister opened new station at Portway P&R)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651d64646a6955000d78b2e0/network-north-transforming-british-transport.pdf

Interesting that it mentions upgrades as far south as Barrow then boasts only of an half hourly service between Whitehaven and Carlisle. Is the south lakes going to be forgotten about again

 

[Agent_Squash]

Between

Interesting that it mentions upgrades as far south as Barrow then boasts only of an half hourly service between Whitehaven and Carlisle. Is the south lakes going to be forgotten about again

I mean, 30 something billion and they’re still not electrifying Windermere.

 

[MTR380A]

Does anyone think that Labour have any plans to announce that they would go ahead with the project if they win the election?

Probably abandon everything immediately and re-package all ongoing and future commitments with a new name, something like National Holistic Rail Strategy, with mistakes like Metrolink to Manchester Airport removed.

 

[jayah]

Correction "there won’t be money to reinstate it or do [most of] the other projects"


"Britain will spend 10.4% of total government revenue servicing its debts in 2023, Fitch has forecast, at a total of £110bn. Interest payments on a 12-month basis reached £117bn in May 2023, double the level in the period to September 2021"

The age of free money is over. 30 year gilt yields have just hit a 20 year high of 5.1% (far higher than under Truss and yields are still rising (and not just in the UK. US is same story.

Thats the elephant in the room.

Source:

UK faces highest debt interest costs in developed world

The UK faces the highest debt interest bill in the developed world this year, according to Fitch Ratings, due to its high proportion of inflation-linked debt.

www.investmentweek.co.uk

There was no age of free money. Ultra low interest only existed over short terms. Borrow short, spend long a bank or two failed pushing that too far.

Taxing the productive economy for £100bn (and the rest) to buy a load of illusory time savings for a tiny number of rail users was never a good idea.

You could raise taxes on the productive economy to 99% chasing intangible benefits like those. It should have been called out long before reaching this sorry stage.

 

[hux385]

I should hope the grade-seperated junction at Handsacre is retained in all of this chaos. The spur can link into the Trent Valley lines between Handsacre and Rugeley as planned for phase 1, and then the section of track that was meant to be headed from Handsacre-Crewe (2a) could instead be linked into the current Colwich-Stone line. I would then get rid of Colwich junction altogether to reduce conflicting movements.

This is the best I can currently come up with as a way to try and reduce the bottleneck around Rugeley/Colwich that fits within the unfortunate decision of 2a being cancelled.

I do believe the north facing chords of the delta junction should also remain part of the design. Since we're going to have lots of capacity at Curzon Street, we might as well run northbound trains from here too, given the reduced capacity at Euston. Perhaps we could try and view the remnants of HS2 as a Birmingham centred project rather than a London centred project?!

 

[JonathanH]

Brown lining here is the other projects may well also not get funding.

Indeed, that is what 'Bald Rick' was suggesting. The whole strategy here is to put Labour in a trap so that HS2 can never happen. If HS2 had just been cancelled it could potentially have been resurrected.

As others have said, there is no money for these alternative projects and they will ultimately also be cancelled but by announcing them, it forces Labour to make those cancellations, while also ensuring that the rest of HS2 is permanently dead.

Fairly vindictive, but it is all strategy from here on in.

 

[Parjon]

All the teeth gnashing and Manchester-invested/obsessed BBC coverage studiously ignoring that not only has "NPR" been recommitted to, but that £12bn has been ringfenced to deliver the necessary connectivity into Liverpool.

It's telling how skewed priorities have become that this kind of distortion is so widespread. And how prosperity for "the North" is far from their intent, versus fancy trains to London for them and them alone.

 

[Starmill]

I would then get rid of Colwich junction altogether to reduce conflicting movements.

Why? Just to ensure that no diversionary capacity is available via Hixon in the future?

 

[Andrew Holland]

"Every penny saved will go to other transport projects" - there it is, the latest morsel on the conveyor belt of lies...

But with these Tories while every penny saved might well go to other transport projects, every pound saved will likely be spaffed up the wall on their donor chums, themselves, consultants, PR firms and so on.

 

[Starmill]

All the teeth gnashing and Manchester-invested/obsessed BBC coverage studiously ignoring that not only has "NPR" been recommitted to, but that £12bn has been ringfenced to deliver the necessary connectivity into Liverpool.

It's telling how skewed priorities have become that this kind of distortion is so widespread. And how prosperity for "the North" is far from their intent, versus fancy trains to London for them and them alone.

Erm, they did a Hybrid Bill for phase 2a and have just binned it. Why do you think "NPR" into Liverpool won't go the same way?

 

[hux385]

Why? Just to ensure that no diversionary capacity is available via Hixon in the future?

That's a very fair point! As long as there is some kind of decent grade seperation around the Handsacre/Colwich area then I'm happy

 

[John Griffiths]

Rishi Antoinette ("Why don't these whingers just charter a helicopter) opens his 'bribe with an imaginary scheme to shut up the plebs' box. We need a government of adults: we need HS2 and investment in schemes like Leamside.

 

[Starmill]

That's a very fair point! As long as there is some kind of decent grade seperation around the Handsacre/Colwich area then I'm happy

It's a bit late to revise the Handsacare junction now. Any changes at all at Colwich, I'll believe when I see.

 

[Parjon]

Erm, they did a Hybrid Bill for phase 2a and have just binned it. Why do you think "NPR" into Liverpool won't go the same way?

So why go through any of the other "promises"? Why single the most significant one out for exclusion from being mentioned?

Because it doesnt fit the narrative that's why. Because abuse of power to push selected narratives and self promotion has, sadly, become standard practice.

 

[The Planner]

And it'll have 21 platforms rather than the pre-HS2-work 18, plus the "old" side will be used at a far less intensive level than now, more like the 80s.

Where has 21 come from? Euston will likely stay as it is.

 

[DDB]

All the teeth gnashing and Manchester-invested/obsessed BBC coverage studiously ignoring that not only has "NPR" been recommitted to, but that £12bn has been ringfenced to deliver the necessary connectivity into Liverpool.

It's telling how skewed priorities have become that this kind of distortion is so widespread. And how prosperity for "the North" is far from their intent, versus fancy trains to London for them and them alone.

To quote the PMs own preamble in the document.

A scheme whose own economic case shows that almost half the benefits go to London and the South East.

This is deliberately misleading because what that actually means is over half the benefits were in fact in other places other than London and the South East.

 

[JonathanH]

Where has 21 come from? Euston will likely stay as it is.

15 in the classic station plus 6 HS2 platforms.

 

[The Planner]

15 in the classic station plus 6 HS2 platforms.

Doh...

 

[leighsw2]

It's the value of the land which can be used for development. Six platforms (assuming P16 is included in this as per the original plan) will fit almost within the old station footprint, leaving a whole block to develop and sell for an absolute fortune - this is about as prime as UK building land gets.

Hmm, property speculation to fund critical national infrastructure building, what could possibly go wrong? Obviously a model for the French and Germans to follow. Why are they so foolish?

 

[Starmill]

So why go through any of the other "promises"? Why single the most significant one out for exclusion from being mentioned?

Well because if you spend tens of millions of pounds passing a Hybrid Bill for a piece of new infrastructure, and use thousands of hours of time of Parliamentarians, it's sensible to expect that you're committed, and don't simply chuck the entire thing in the bin less than two years later?

 

[Bald Rick]

Well because if you spend tens hundreds of millions of pounds passing a Hybrid Bill for a piece of new infrastructure, and use thousands of hours of time of Parliamentarians, it's sensible to expect that you're committed, and don't simply chuck the entire thing in the bin less than two years later?

Corrected for you!

 

[Andyh82]

I’m not sure how Manchester to Bradford will be able to be undertaken in 30 mins, or Bradford to Huddersfield in 12 mins, but I imagine they aren’t either.

There will be a study and in 3 years time they’ll announce it isn’t possible (unless they built a line in an exact straight line)

Shame with all these plans announced they didn’t announce extra capacity for either Manchester Piccadilly or Leeds stations

 

[Arkeeos]

I’m not sure how Manchester to Bradford will be able to be undertaken in 30 mins, or Bradford to Huddersfield in 12 mins, but I imagine they aren’t either.

There will be a study and in 3 years time they’ll announce it isn’t possible (unless they built a line in an exact straight line)

Shame with all these plans announced they didn’t announce extra capacity for either Manchester Piccadilly or Leeds stations

The government would never lie about journey times, its been 2 years since they did that last, they surely wouldn't do it again?

 

[Parjon]

Well because if you spend tens of millions of pounds passing a Hybrid Bill for a piece of new infrastructure, and use thousands of hours of time of Parliamentarians, it's sensible to expect that you're committed, and don't simply chuck the entire thing in the bin less than two years later?

Still not answering the question posed.

All the other "commitments" were reported on in BBC news. The £12bn high speed line into Liverpool was not. Doesn't matter whether you believe it or not.

Shame the gaslighting can't be ditched along wth the HS2 project.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2023 ==

Shame with all these plans announced they didn’t announce extra capacity for either Manchester Piccadilly or Leeds stations

I fully expect that p15/16 at Manchester Piccadilly is included in the £12bn Liverpool connection.

I guess it depends on whether the silly notion of an underground station can be wrestled from Manchester's Imperial leaders.