Interviewed under caution for not having a railcard

[mellonmilk1]

Hi,
I was just interviewed under caution for not having a railcard with my ticket - my railcard expired in 2021, and i stupidly didn’t notice I had applied the railcard discount when I bought my ticket. I have previously always paid the full price for my journeys, and am now terrified that the company will prosecute me and I will have a court hearing. Please could someone clarify the situation, and explain what is likely to happen in the future? I am of course expecting to pay a fine, but the thought of having a court hearing for something like this is scary.

 

[fandroid]

Don't worry too much. There is normally a way of avoiding court though it will cost rather more than the discount you inadvertantly gained by buying the ticket with an expired Railcard

We need rather more detail to help us advise. What ticket did you buy? What sort of Railcard did you have and what was/is your eligibility for a Railcard? Where were you stopped, and what journey were you on at at the time?

 

[mellonmilk1]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2023 ==

Don't worry too much. There is normally a way of avoiding court though it will cost rather more than the discount you inadvertantly gained by buying the ticket with an expired Railcard

We need rather more detail to help us advise. What ticket did you buy? What sort of Railcard did you have and what was/is your eligibility for a Railcard? Where were you stopped, and what journey were you on at at the time?

Yes stupidly saving £7 is now going to cost me a lot more . I was travelling from Tottenham Hale to Stansted, and got stopped at the end of the journey. I had a 16-25 railcard, which I would still be eligible for, but as I say it expired in 2021 and i didn’t renew as I rarely travel by train. However, when I have done I always pay full price. He did look at all my past journeys bought through trainline. He also took my email down on a separate paper, is it possible for them to contact me through email rather than post, as I gave my family address which I no longer live at but is on my license (my address is outside UK).

 

[Sultan]

They will likely send to your family address an incident report and request your version of how you came to travel using a ticket you were not entitled to use. It is very important you respond to this, else it may escalate. At some point they may offer you a settlement figure to finish the matter, although not all Train Operating Companies (TOCs) do - others on the forum are more knowledgeable as to which TOC does what - might be an idea to confirm which train company you were using.

Once you receive the letter, upload a copy to the forum, redacting all personal information, and you will get some sound advice on what to do next.

Don't panic - you'll just have to wait for now - but whatever you do, do not ignore the letter and act on it as quickly as you are able.

Sorry - forgot to answer your question!! Yes, I think you can correspond via email once you have received the initial letter.

 

[Gloster]

If your family still live at the address it is best that you warn them that any letter that arrives for you should be forwarded to you immediately and not be left until a convenient time. You normally only have a relatively short period, usually (I think) two weeks, from the date the railway posted it to get your reply back to them. If you are not quick enough you risk the case being sent for prosecution.

I am not an expert.

 

[WesternLancer]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2023 ==


Yes stupidly saving £7 is now going to cost me a lot more . I was travelling from Tottenham Hale to Stansted, and got stopped at the end of the journey. I had a 16-25 railcard, which I would still be eligible for, but as I say it expired in 2021 and i didn’t renew as I rarely travel by train. However, when I have done I always pay full price. He did look at all my past journeys bought through trainline. He also took my email down on a separate paper, is it possible for them to contact me through email rather than post, as I gave my family address which I no longer live at but is on my license (my address is outside UK).

You need to make arrangements to get the hard copy letter they will probably send you - this is vital - and be able to reply to it quickly.

I am not sure how best to do this if you have now moved abroad. Maybe if you gave them an e-mail when you were stopped that may help. Do you have any e-mail for whoever stopped you (it would probably be the train company revenue protection team)?

 

[mellonmilk1]

You need to make arrangements to get the hard copy letter they will probably send you - this is vital - and be able to reply to it quickly.

I am not sure how best to do this if you have now moved abroad. Maybe if you gave them an e-mail when you were stopped that may help. Do you have any e-mail for whoever stopped you (it would probably be the train company revenue protection team)?

No but I did tell them my permanent address is abroad. My parents will of course let me know when the letter arrives. Someone previously stated I can reply by email, but if this is not the case, is it possible for my parents to reply on my behalf?

 

[spag23]

In this day and age, would it not be easier for the OP to ask their parents to open and scan/photograph the letter and email it on to the OP.

 

[WesternLancer]

No but I did tell them my permanent address is abroad. My parents will of course let me know when the letter arrives. Someone previously stated I can reply by email, but if this is not the case, is it possible for my parents to reply on my behalf?

With luck the letter that you get (or e-mail if it does come by that method) will have an e-mail on it and all will be good. Obv good that your parents can monitor your post.

If you are over 18 I think your parents could only reply on your behalf with a signed 'letter of authority' from you giving them authority to do so. You can find samples of these on line - v simple wording - but you would need to print one, sign it, scan it or photo it to your parents for them to use with any reply they send on your behalf. A bit of a nuisance but not impossible to sort out.

But let's hope you can get an e-mail to use to make things simple - if you know the train company you are dealing with someone here may be able to find one for you. Could it be Greater Anglia at Stansted Airport?

Also - do you know if there are other occasions since 2021 when you have mistakenly bought Railcard discounted tickets despite not having a valid Railcard due to it having been expired? It is possible / likely that the Railway will be checking your ticket purchasing history to see if this is the case, if you have bought these tickets on line this is v easy for them to do.

 

[mellonmilk1]

With luck the letter that you get (or e-mail if it does come by that method) will have an e-mail on it and all will be good. Obv good that your parents can monitor your post.

If you are over 18 I think your parents could only reply on your behalf with a signed 'letter of authority' from you giving them authority to do so. You can find samples of these on line - v simple wording - but you would need to print one, sign it, scan it or photo it to your parents for them to use with any reply they send on your behalf. A bit of a nuisance but not impossible to sort out.

But let's hope you can get an e-mail to use to make things simple - if you know the train company you are dealing with someone here may be able to find one for you. Could it be Greater Anglia at Stansted Airport?

Also - do you know if there are other occasions since 2021 when you have mistakenly bought Railcard discounted tickets despite not having a valid Railcard due to it having been expired? It is possible / likely that the Railway will be checking your ticket purchasing history to see if this is the case, if you have bought these tickets on line this is v easy for them to do.

Yes it was Greater Anglia. I am 100% sure that there have been no other instances where I have purchased a discounted train ticket, as I typically travel by coach. They did begin to look into my ticket history on my trainline app, but didnt say anything about that. I assume that will work in my favour, as it is clearly a one time offense?

 

[MotCO]

If there is a delay in the time it takes for the parents to receive the letter and send it to the OP for them to respond, would it be in order for the parents to respond to the train company to explain the situation and ask for more time for the OP to respond?

 

[WesternLancer]

Post edited to remove as content not needed.

 

[MotCO]

To the OP: have you purchased a new railcard? This is often shown as demonstrating to the railway company rhat you have taken mitigating steps to avoid making this mistake sgain.

 

[mellonmilk1]

To the OP: have you purchased a new railcard? This is often shown as demonstrating to the railway company rhat you have taken mitigating steps to avoid making this mistake sgain.

I have not - should I do this now, or wait until they send me a letter and explain that I will buy one as well as paying all fines and processing fees when I respond?

 

[spag23]

To the OP: have you purchased a new railcard? This is often shown as demonstrating to the railway company rhat you have taken mitigating steps to avoid making this mistake sgain.

And tell them you have taken steps to ensure that a reliable App or diary entry will remind you to renew just before its expiry. The seller may remind you, but you can't rely on it!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I have not - should I do this now, or wait until they send me a letter and explain that I will buy one as well as paying all fines and processing fees when I respond?

I would suggest buying one now: that suggests that you want to do the right thing *because* it's the right thing, rather than doing what you need to avoid being punished.

 

[fandroid]

I would suggest buying one now: that suggests that you want to do the right thing *because* it's the right thing, rather than doing what you need to avoid being punished.

Is that a reasonable suggestion as the OP lives abroad and normally travels to/from Stansted by coach?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Is that a reasonable suggestion as the OP lives abroad and normally travels to/from Stansted by coach?

I'd forgotten that point. It does rather suggest that there may be other angles.

In the circumstances, I suppose the question is which is more likely to convince the railway that there's no risk of repetition and that the OP has learnt their lesson:

- that they live abroad and when in GB use the coach, or
- that they have bought a Railcard to use should they want to take the train in GB.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The most straightforward way to see a copy of the letter will be for your parents to take a photo of it and send it to you via email of WhatsApp (or any other messaging service of your choice). I expect you will be able to keep this matter our of court by paying what s known as an Administrative Settlement (also referred to as an out of court settlement) but you must engage with the process.

You must make sure you reply to the letter from Greater Anglia before the deadline so do let your parents know asap what they need to do because a failure to reply to the letter by the deadline would see the matter end up in court.

I suggest you mention the following points when you reply to the letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you keep your reply short and concise and avoid giving a sob story it will maximise your chances of being offered an out of court settlement. If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £100 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[mellonmilk1]

Having looked at similar cases, it seems my fault is similar to this person's: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/interviewed-under-caution-for-expired-railcard.186808/. Is my case likely to go a similar way, assuming I cooperate with the company and they agree to settle out of court?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2023 ==


I just received this email - should I immediately respond with all the points that @Hadders recommended, or should I preliminarily just say that I am still keen to settle the matter out of court.

 

[WesternLancer]

Having looked at similar cases, it seems my fault is similar to this person's: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/interviewed-under-caution-for-expired-railcard.186808/. Is my case likely to go a similar way, assuming I cooperate with the company and they agree to settle out of court?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2023 ==

View attachment 144110
I just received this email - should I immediately respond with all the points that @Hadders recommended, or should I preliminarily just say that I am still keen to settle the matter out of court.

You should reply and say you are indeed keen to settle the matter out of court - but then add a short apology and mention you undertstand why this was a problem and that you have taken steps to prevent it happening again - that isn't going to be of any harm to state I feel.

 

[John R]

Totally irrelevant to the advice the OP needs but “You was recently stopped…” Ouch!

 

[mellonmilk1]

Totally irrelevant to the advice the OP needs but “You was recently stopped…” Ouch!

I know right

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2023 ==

Just to let everyone know, after replying that I would still like to settle out of court and apologising for my actions, I received another email this morning. I have been charged £121, this including the rail fare and admin costs. An expensive mistake, but one that I will most definitely not be repeating. Lesson learnt! Thanks for all the advice and reassurance. Perhaps useful to know that because I gave them my email, they were able to deal with me much more quickly?

 

[Hadders]

I know right

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2023 ==

Just to let everyone know, after replying that I would still like to settle out of court and apologising for my actions, I received another email this morning. I have been charged £121, this including the rail fare and admin costs. An expensive mistake, but one that I will most definitely not be repeating. Lesson learnt! Thanks for all the advice and reassurance. Perhaps useful to know that because I gave them my email, they were able to deal with me much more quickly?

Thanks for letting us know.

That’s a decent outcome in the circumstances and in-line with what I expected.