Fare Evasion Help

[Jcp0991]

Good Evening,

I was wondering if I could seek advice. I was recenlty caught short-ticketing (I beleive this is the term) and aware that there is no point making excuses and an am incredibly sorry for the lapse in my own judgement due to financial pressures. I have read a few threads of similar(ish) scenario's. I had been doing this once/twice per week across 5 months and was stopped by a Thameslink rail enforcement officer in July and was placed under caution I answered all their questions honestly and mentioned that I had done this previously when asked directly.

Journey- Hitchin to City Thameslink
I had bought Hitchin to Stevenage and St Pancras to City Thameslink

I recieved a letter from Thameslink Fraud Office and wanted to know what the best advice is, my obvious ideal scenario is to settle this outside of court to hopefully avoid a criminal record.

I have written a response to the letter and can share both if anyone is able to assist. Or due to my case being on the larger scale would the general advice be to seek legal action, seen a mix of threads.

Appreciate any help given and hope I have given enough information and also want to stress again how ashamed I am of my actions. Thank in advance to any help given.

 

[Gloster]

I am not one of the experts, but suggest that, in view of the number of occurrences, you post the letter from Thameslink in this thread. Make sure that you obscure your name, address, reference numbers and any other details that might identify you.

 

[Jcp0991]

Thank you, I have uploaded

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Jcp0991. Welcome to the forum. Reckon you'll be wanting to negotiate a so-called "out of court" settlement with the train company's investigation team.

This could be somewhat costly. The train company will expect you to stump up the full, undiscounted Anytime Single fare for each and every journey you've made during the period in question where you've not paid the appropriate fare. For Hitchin to City Thameslink, that's £20.70 per single, one-way, journey, so this could easily be approaching a four figure sum over a five month period. In addition, you'll be expected to pay a three figure sum towards their admin and investigation costs.

Alternative to the above is to be taken to court, where there's every chance you'll be found guilty and end up with a conviction.

Others should be able to advise how best to now respond to the letter you've just received.

 

[skyhigh]

I have written a response to the letter and can share both if anyone is able to assist.

Have you sent this reply, and if so, what did you say?

 

[Jcp0991]

Have you sent this reply, and if so, what did you say?

Hello, No I have not sent it yet was going along the lines of:

I am writing in response to the letter I received regarding my statement on 03/07/2023. I was travelling from Hitchin station to City Thameslink, I did mention to the Railway Revenue Protection Officer at the time that I had previously done this. I firstly want to say how sorry I am for this incident and previous and all the inconvenience this has caused. I understand how serious this is and that fare evasion causes huge revenue loss for Thameslink and that any reasons I had do not condone my actions.

Since the incident I have travelled with the correct tickets and will obviously continue to do so, I have learnt from the very serious error in judgement on my part and am keen to make amends. I would like to take this opportunity to ask and see if it is possible to settle this without the need for court action.

I can assure you that this will not happen again, and I will follow the rules entirely while travelling on public transportation going forward. Furthermore, I would be incredible grateful for the opportunity to resolve this matter with yourself. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs for Govia Thameslink in dealing with my case.

I am happy to discus anything further or any additional questions that you may have.

Yours sincerely,

But not sure if I cover enough points or missing the correct tone. Aware that they are very unlikely to care about and sob stories etc. it was my initial draft

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2023 ==

@Jcp0991. Welcome to the forum. Reckon you'll be wanting to negotiate a so-called "out of court" settlement with the train company's investigation team.

This could be somewhat costly. The train company will expect you to stump up the full, undiscounted Anytime Single fare for each and every journey you've made during the period in question where you've not paid the appropriate fare. For Hitchin to City Thameslink, that's £20.70 per single, one-way, journey, so this could easily be approaching a four figure sum over a five month period. In addition, you'll be expected to pay a three figure sum towards their admin and investigation costs.

Alternative to the above is to be taken to court, where there's every chance you'll be found guilty and end up with a conviction.

Others should be able to advise how best to now respond to the letter you've just received.

Thank you for your response- aware that this is going to cost me if settled out of court but think that it makes sense as I am obviously in the wrong and I feel like the conviction would be worse.

Will wait to hear back from others.

Appreciate your time.

 

[MrJeeves]

If you don't have one already, buying a railcard can be a good way to save money on some fares, provided you adhere to the minimum fares for travel, and it can demonstrate a desire to save money while travelling while also buying the correct tickets. If you buy one, you should mention this in your letter.

I've made some changes to your draft. In general, we suggest not openly admitting to having done things multiple times in the past. You may have said this to the RPI, but we don't know if they reported this back to GTR or not. I have removed references to previous fare evasion from your letter, but I should stress you shouldn't lie and say you haven't done it before if you have.

I understand honesty is the best policy in some cases, but admitting guilt to multiple offences might not be the best strategy this time. :P

I've also moved the reference to out of court settlement fully into the last paragraph. This makes it easier for a caseworker to pick that out at a skim through the letter (if you see tens of these each day, you're not going to intricately read each letter).

I'd recommend waiting to hear what other feedback others on the forum suggest later today and tomorrow before you reply to GTR.

I am writing in response to the letter I received regarding my statement on 03/07/2023. (If you have a case reference, it would make sense to put it here.)

I was travelling from Hitchin station to City Thameslink, I did mention to the Railway Revenue Protection Officer at the time that I had previously done this. I firstly want to say how sorry I am for this incident and previous and all the any inconvenience this has caused. I understand how serious this is and that fare evasion causes huge revenue loss for Thameslink and that any reasons I had do not condone my actions.

Since the incident I have travelled with the correct tickets and will obviously continue to do so,. I have learnt from the very serious error in judgement on my part and am keen to make amends. I would like to take this opportunity to ask and see if it is possible to settle this without the need for court action. I can assure you that this will not happen again, and I will follow the rules entirely while travelling on public transportation going forward.

Furthermore, I would be incredibley grateful for the opportunity to resolve this matter with yourself without the need for court action. I am willing would appreciate the option to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs for Govia Thameslink in dealing with my case.

I am happy to discuss anything further or any additional questions that you may have.

Yours sincerely,
XXXXXX

 

[Jcp0991]

If you don't have one already, buying a railcard can be a good way to save money on some fares, provided you adhere to the minimum fares for travel, and it can demonstrate a desire to save money while travelling while also buying the correct tickets. If you buy one, you should mention this in your letter.

I've made some changes to your draft. In general, we suggest not openly admitting to having done things multiple times in the past. You may have said this to the RPI, but we don't know if they reported this back to GTR or not. I have removed references to previous fare evasion from your letter, but I should stress you shouldn't lie and say you haven't done it before if you have.

I understand honesty is the best policy in some cases, but admitting guilt to multiple offences might not be the best strategy this time. :P

I've also moved the reference to out of court settlement fully into the last paragraph. This makes it easier for a caseworker to pick that out at a skim through the letter (if you see tens of these each day, you're not going to intricately read each letter).

I'd recommend waiting to hear what other feedback others on the forum suggest later today and tomorrow before you reply to GTR.

Thank you so much!

I half remember what I said to the RPI when he asked if I had done this previously and I had said yes- I used the trainline app so assumed that they would know. Think I might have been pouring my heart out, might not have been the best idea.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum.

We are seeing lots of cases like this at the moment. It's a good thing that you're dealing with GTR who tend to take a more pragmatic approach in cases like this rather than Transport for London whose default position seems to be to prosecute.

I would incorporate the adjustments made by @MrJeeves . If you qualify for a railcard it's worth getting one although if you're under 31 you're unlikely to qualify for one that will be useful for a commute involving the morning peak.

 

[Jcp0991]

railcard

Welcome to the forum.

We are seeing lots of cases like this at the moment. It's a good thing that you're dealing with GTR who tend to take a more pragmatic approach in cases like this rather than Transport for London whose default position seems to be to prosecute.

I would incorporate the adjustments made by @MrJeeves . If you qualify for a railcard it's worth getting one although if you're under 31 you're unlikely to qualify for one that will be useful for a commute involving the morning peak.

Thank you for the advice and will make the adjustments. Do you think it is best practice to respond directly and see what happens before looking down the solicitor route or should I look to find a solictor straight away?
Really apprecaite eveyone's help.
Sadly I don't quaify as over 31 (which somehow feels more embarrasing that I listened to the advice of a colleauge and thought that this was a good idea.... suppose the only way is to learn from this and accept whatever consequences are coming my way)

 

[MrJeeves]

Thank you for the advice and will make the adjustments. Do you think it is best practice to respond directly and see what happens before looking down the solicitor route or should I look to find a solictor straight away?
Really apprecaite eveyone's help.
Sadly I don't quaify as over 31 (which somehow feels more embarrasing that I listened to the advice of a colleauge and thought that this was a good idea.... suppose the only way is to learn from this and accept whatever consequences are coming my way)

A solicitor won't really benefit you at this point, in my opinion. I'd recommend you reply back yourself as it'll save you money, and GTR are, as Hadders says, usually pragmatic at offering out of court settlements to those that engage with the process.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you for the advice and will make the adjustments. Do you think it is best practice to respond directly and see what happens before looking down the solicitor route or should I look to find a solictor straight away?
Really apprecaite eveyone's help.
Sadly I don't quaify as over 31 (which somehow feels more embarrasing that I listened to the advice of a colleauge and thought that this was a good idea.... suppose the only way is to learn from this and accept whatever consequences are coming my way)

My view is there is no need to involve a solicitor at this stage (dare I say it but we've probably drafted more letters to GTR than most solicitors ever will....) Should they not agree to a settlement (and my view is they almost certainly will) then that would be the time to involve a solicitor.

It will end up being expensive - as GTR will want reimbursement for the cost of the fares avoided (full Anytime fare) plus an admin fee.

I'm always suprised that people are completely unaware of the digital footprint they leave when they buy something online but that's a subject for a different thread!

 

[Jcp0991]

Thank you both again for you help.

Will send the letter with the adjustments, if they don't agree to a settlement will that be instant summons to court? Just want to mentally prepare for everything I can.

Digital footprint hadn't properly entered my mind if I am honest which feels a little stupid on my belhalf (and trust me my partner has very much hammered this home!)

 

[Hadders]

If they do decide to prosecute then they will issue a summons (or more likely a Single Justice Procedure Notice). It's hughly unusual for GTR to do this as long as you co-operate with them.

 

[Jcp0991]

Also, this might be a stupid question but I was sent both a letter and also an email with the letter attached. Can I continue to use an email or do I sent a letter by post?

 

[Hadders]

The letter says that they want to discuss the matter with you and to email them within 7 days. I'd say email is fine.

Given that they know this has been has been happening on a sustained basis I wonder if it is worth researching your Trainline purchasing history and setting out the number of times you have doe this in your reply.

 

[Jcp0991]

The letter says that they want to discuss the matter with you and to email them within 7 days. I'd say email is fine.

Given that they know this has been has been happening on a sustained basis I wonder if it is worth researching your Trainline purchasing history and setting out the number of times you have doe this in your repl

I have just sent the email, however will look this up properly and have it prepared. Or do you think I should message again?

Sorry I am more on the nervous side/overtalking personality type which does not always work well so don't want to over do things in the first instance

 

[Hadders]

I wouldn’t send another email. Wait and see what they say when they reply. We can offer further advice once we know more.

 

[Jcp0991]

Just wanted to update and say thank you.

Thameslink have agreed to settle this out side of court and I will be paying my fine once all is agreed.

Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate all your time.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just wanted to update and say thank you.

Thameslink have agreed to settle this out side of court and I will be paying my fine once all is agreed.

Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate all your time.

That's good news for you to hear, and draws a line under the matter.

By the way, how much have they asked you to shell out?

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Thanks for telling us. Regardless of the settlement amount, it’s a decent outcome in the circumstances.

Needless to say, be religious about keeping your nose clean from now on. Not only should you (obviously) not even think about any form of “creative discounting”; IMO, you should also do what you can to reduce the risk of inadvertently being unable to produce a ticket in future due to something going wrong. Perhaps print out e-tickets in case your phone stops working, for example. Belt and braces, for your own peace of mind apart from anything.

 

[Jcp0991]

That's good news for you to hear, and draws a line under the matter.

By the way, how much have they asked you to shell out?

Thanks for telling us. Regardless of the settlement amount, it’s a decent outcome in the circumstances.

Needless to say, be religious about keeping your nose clean from now on. Not only should you (obviously) not even think about any form of “creative discounting”; IMO, you should also do what you can to reduce the risk of inadvertently being unable to produce a ticket in future due to something going wrong. Perhaps print out e-tickets in case your phone stops working, for example. Belt and braces, for your own peace of mind apart from anything.

Thank you, very much a lesson learned