Caught with child ticket at 18

[Phoenix3]

I got caught with a child ticket back in July this year and I need some help. At first I gave fake details and then gave the right details. Little to my knowledge they were able to see how many times I’ve done this in the past. Today I received a letter about this investigation and worked out that I’d done it about 12 other times but I gave all the times I did so. Anyone know what will come after this? Fines, prosecution etc.

 

[Gloster]

It would help if you could provide more details. Please post the letter you have received with all details that might identify you (name, address, reference numbers, etc.) obscured.

 

[Phoenix3]

It would help if you could provide more details. Please post the letter you have received with all details that might identify you (name, address, reference numbers, etc.) obscured.

How would this help? I don’t feel like putting all my details on here

 

[hexagon789]

How would this help? I don’t feel like putting all my details on here

You don't put your personal details, just the details of what you are being investigated for. If we know what the Train Company are accusing you for then members with the relevant knowledge can give you better advice of how to proceed and what to expect.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

How would this help? I don’t feel like putting all my details on here

Like Gloster has said…obscure your personal details.

The members on here come up with valuable advice and have helped out a lot of people but without being given the facts and full information it’s going to be very difficult to offer you advice.

 

[Phoenix3]

Like Gloster has said…obscure your personal details.

The members on here come up with valuable advice and have helped out a lot of people but without being given the facts and full information it’s going to be very difficult to offer you advice.

Ohh okay sorry I didn’t see “obscured” at the bottom. Here’s one of the letters I received, the others where the laws and a page for me to write what other times/tickets I bought that where child tickets.

 

[Haywain]

I’d done it about 12 other times but I gave all the times I did so

Can you clarify for us, have you already advised TIL of these occasions or was this something you mentioned when you were stopped?

 

[Phoenix3]

Can you clarify for us, have you already advised TIL of these occasions or was this something you mentioned when you were stopped?

I called them this morning as I knew I’d done it but didn’t know the dates and wanted to see if they could tell me where I’d find said dates. They said to look on the app I use to buy the tickets yet they knew exactly how many times I had done it.

 

[Haywain]

I called them this morning as I knew I’d done it but didn’t know the dates and wanted to see if they could tell me where I’d find said dates. They said to look on the app I use to buy the tickets yet they knew exactly how many times I had done it.

Thanks, knowing that helps to tailor the advice you'll be given.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The good news is that you aren’t dealing with Transport for London - if you were this would result in a Prosecution. The not so good news is that Chiltern use a company called Transport Investigations Limited for many of their cases. They can sometimes be tricky to deal with although it is normally possible to get them to offer an out of court settlement.

I suggest you mention the following points in your reply to the letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before, and TIL are aware of this. Be upfront with them in your reply about how many times you have used a child ticket, if necessary research your purchase history on Trainline to find this out.

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. They will normally use the Anytime Single fare in their calculation with no credit given for the value of the child ticket you purchased.

An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Phoenix3]

Welcome to the forum!

The good news is that you aren’t dealing with Transport for London - if you were this would result in a Prosecution. The not so good news is that Chiltern use a company called Transport Investigations Limited for many of their cases. They can sometimes be tricky to deal with although it is normally possible to get them to offer an out of court settlement.

I suggest you mention the following points in your reply to the letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before, and TIL are aware of this. Be upfront with them in your reply about how many times you have used a child ticket, if necessary research your purchase history on Trainline to find this out.

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. They will normally use the Anytime Single fare in their calculation with no credit given for the value of the child ticket you purchased.

An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Hi thank you so much for the reply, issue is I’ve already sent over a email with the list of the times I’ve bought the wrong tickets. Would it be worth following it up with a email covering the points you have stated?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2023 ==

Welcome to the forum!

The good news is that you aren’t dealing with Transport for London - if you were this would result in a Prosecution. The not so good news is that Chiltern use a company called Transport Investigations Limited for many of their cases. They can sometimes be tricky to deal with although it is normally possible to get them to offer an out of court settlement.

I suggest you mention the following points in your reply to the letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before, and TIL are aware of this. Be upfront with them in your reply about how many times you have used a child ticket, if necessary research your purchase history on Trainline to find this out.

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. They will normally use the Anytime Single fare in their calculation with no credit given for the value of the child ticket you purchased.

An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Dear whomever this may concern,

I hope this reaches you well and my previous email was helpful, I would like to take this opportunity to formally apologise, I now understand the severity of the situation and the consequences to my actions and have learnt from the matter. I am keen to settle this without the need of court action and am happy to pay the outstanding fares and any additional costs.

Sincerely

Is this a good draft?

 

[John R]

A couple of style points

I would just start an email “further to my previous email which I trust was helpful” if you haven’t got a specific name, and forget the “I hope this reaches you well” as I know that irritates a lot of people.

Other than that, it’s short and to the point, and looks reasonable to me.

 

[AlterEgo]

I hope this reaches you well and my previous email was helpful, I would like to take this opportunity to formally apologise, I now understand the severity of the situation and the consequences to my actions and have learnt from the matter. I am keen to settle this without the need of court action and am happy to pay the outstanding fares and any additional costs.

Sincerely

Is this a good draft?

...no.

You need to write a proper email/letter which goes into a bit more detail and which conveys a bit of sincerity and humility. @Hadders' suggestions are just that - suggestions for structure, not the whole letter just with commas in between.

You have written two sentences and don't even say "yours" in front of the "sincerely". You don't show any sort of understanding of why what you did was wrong, or what you have learned, or given the company any reason not to actually prosecute you.

TIL may take a couple of letters to convince them not to prosecute you anyway, as they are not the easiest to convince.

 

[Phoenix3]

...no.

You need to write a proper email/letter which goes into a bit more detail and which conveys a bit of sincerity and humility. @Hadders' suggestions are just that - suggestions for structure, not the whole letter just with commas in between.

You have written two sentences and don't even say "yours" in front of the "sincerely". You don't show any sort of understanding of why what you did was wrong, or what you have learned, or given the company any reason not to actually prosecute you.

TIL may take a couple of letters to convince them not to prosecute you anyway, as they are not the easiest to convince.

Further to my previous email, which I trust was helpful, I would like to take this opportunity to formally apologise. I now understand the severity of the situation, I acted immaturely, there is no excuse for this and I see that there will be consequences to my actions.
However, would like it to be noted that since the date I was caught with a child ticket, I have not repeated this behaviour which demonstrates that I have learnt from the matter.
I am keen to settle this without the need of court action and am happy to pay the outstanding fares and any additional costs.

Yours Sincerely

Is this any better?

 

[Haywain]

Is this any better?

Well...

However, would like it to be noted that since the date I was caught with a child ticket, I have not repeated this behaviour which demonstrates that I have learnt from the matter.

Something more that gives an assurance that you aren't going to be doing so in the future would be good, and...

I am keen to settle this without the need of court action and am happy to pay the outstanding fares and any additional costs.

You need to be asking them to give you the opportunity to settle out of court - it's their choice and that you are keen doesn't carry much weight.

 

[30907]

Further to my previous email, which I trust was helpful, I would like to take this opportunity to formally apologise. I now understand the severity of the situation, I acted immaturely, there is no excuse for this and I see that there will be consequences to my actions.

In law, at 18 (and well before that) you are mature - how about just admitting you were wrong?(Sorry if that sounds rude!).

You could add that you now realise that your offence was not victimless - everyone else has to cough up more because you paid less (either through taxes or hough fares) - and fare evasion costs a vast amount annually.

However, would like it to be noted that since the date I was caught with a child ticket, I have not repeated this behaviour which demonstrates that I have learnt from the matter.

You've stopped because you were caught - well done

I am keen to settle this without the need of court action and am happy to pay the outstanding fares and any additional costs.

You need to ask, not offer, as it is up to them - "I would be grateful if you would consider" or some such.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with @30907

You might want to start your letter by saying something like:

‘I am writing to offer further clarification following my reply to your letter dated xx xxxxx.’

Say that in purchasing child tickets you made an error of judgement.

Offer an apology and an awareness of the consequences.

Finish the letter by asking if they would be willing to consider dealing with the matter by means of an out of court settlement if you were to pay the cost of the outstanding fares and their administrative costs in dealing with the case.

 

[Phoenix3]

I return back here as I’ve just received a secondary letter from the til and it’s panicked me again.
- Attached is said letter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Sep 2023 ==

I return back here as I’ve just received a secondary letter from the til and it’s panicked me again.
- Attached is said letter.

Can anyone explain what this means in a bit of depth i’m struggling to understand what it means

 

[WesternLancer]

I return back here as I’ve just received a secondary letter from the til and it’s panicked me again.
- Attached is said letter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Sep 2023 ==


Can anyone explain what this means in a bit of depth i’m struggling to understand what it means

I think what it is actually saying is that they have considered your previous reply but still don't see why they should not prosecute you for fare evasion, but they end up with another invitation to you to reply again - so you need to take that opportunity.

We often see this with TIL (see other threads esp involving Chiltern Trains) - basically you need to write back again and plead your case, even though you may find yourself saying similar things to what you said before - although your draft up thread was pretty brief so I suspect there is more that you can say. See advice in post #10 and #13 and #17.

You need to really focus on making it clear that you know now what you did was very wrong, you understand fully the consequences of what can happen to you (including being prosecuted at court), and how what you did harms other passengers who ultimately have to pay higher fares because you chose not to, and you really will make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

I suspect they think your previous reply does not demonstrate that you have 'learned your lesson' which you need to convince them of to get the settlement outcome you are seeking.

So do reply to them again and see if that works (we have seen cases on here with Chiltern / TIL where people have had to write 3 times before getting an offer.

 

[30907]

So do reply to them again and see if that works (we have seen cases on here with Chiltern / TIL where people have had to write 3 times before getting an offer.

And post a draft on here for comment if you wish

 

[Hadders]

It’s quite normal for TIL to send a letter like this in response to an initial reply, it’s as though they want you to work hard to get a settlement.

Post up a draft of your reply, which in effect will be a re-draft of what you’ve already sent and we’ll proof read it for you.

 

[Phoenix3]

Hi helpful forum members this is my first draft to my secondary apology letter.

I am writing to offer further clarification following my reply to your letters dated 21st and 27th September 2023. I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate my apology, I understand that in purchasing child tickets I made an error in judgement and I was very wrong in doing this. I now realise that this is not a victimless crime and that other passengers ultimately have to pay higher fares as a result of my actions. I also see that giving false details was ignorant and foolish and a further lapse in judgement on my part. For this I am very sorry, at the time I was blind to the seriousness of my actions, however, I have learnt from my mistakes and I am aware of all the consequences, including being prosecuted in court. I know I am not above the law and must pay for my actions. I have reflected on my wrongdoings and I ensure nothing like this will ever happen again.

I would be very grateful if you were willing to consider dealing with the matter by means of an out of court settlement if I were to pay the costs of the outstanding fares and any of your administrative fees in dealing with the case.



Yours Sincerely

 

[_toommm_]

Yours Sincerely

I would delete your full name from the portion below which I quoted, in case anyone stumbles across this thread, who is looking at your case.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi helpful forum members this is my first draft to my secondary apology letter.

I am writing to offer further clarification following my reply to your letters dated 21st and 27th September 2023. I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate my apology, I understand that in purchasing child tickets I made an error in judgement and I was very wrong in doing this. I now realise that this is not a victimless crime and that other passengers ultimately have to pay higher fares as a result of my actions. I also see that giving false details was ignorant and foolish and a further lapse in judgement on my part. For this I am very sorry, at the time I was blind to the seriousness of my actions, however, I have learnt from my mistakes and I am aware of all the consequences, including being prosecuted in court. I know I am not above the law and must pay for my actions. I have reflected on my wrongdoings and I ensure nothing like this will ever happen again.

I would be very grateful if you were willing to consider dealing with the matter by means of an out of court settlement if I were to pay the costs of the outstanding fares and any of your administrative fees in dealing with the case.



Yours Sincerely

Looks reasonable to me. I suppose if you have any mitigating circs you could add something so long as not too much of a sob story (eg financial difficulties caused by x or y) perhaps, but I am not sure that is strictly necessary.