UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[Bantamzen]

Eh? Shell Ubitricity have payed the 40% for the thousands they've already installed and plan to do tens of thousands more in the next few years.

There are other companies such as Char.gy offering to do it completely for free but I wonder if they are getting the 60% grant money directly so the local authority does not have to do this themselves.

char.gy — Public electric vehicle charging - on-street, car parks, lampposts

T

char.gy

Plan to do more, but they are a profit making company so they are not obligated to follow through with this are they?

 

[Noddy]

I can see a concierge service being a thing. You go to bed, during the night someone picks up your car, takes it to a nearby charger and brings it back when done.
Would be easy to do with more and more cars now having phone unlock and "valet mode" etc and allows just a few 50kW-ish chargers to be installed rather than hundreds of 7kW lamppost chargers, so better utilisation of the infrastructure.

Sounds like a fantasy to me.

Already happening in the US. Slight difference is you order it via an app and they come to you! I believe concierge EV charging was fairly common in the early 20th century when EVs were relatively common in comparison to ICE vehicles.

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Plan to do more, but they are a profit making company so they are not obligated to follow through with this are they?

But without installing them first how on earth are they going to make a profit? You can’t make a profit from something that doesn’t exist (or something one of your commercial rivals have installed because you were too slow).

 

[david1212]

The old "I'm going to assert everyone has to be able to charge at home" argument.
The reality is that you don't specifically have to be able to charge at home for EV to still work for you.
Sure some people might have to. But most people don't actually drive that many miles in a week, so charging once or twice a week at work, or the supermarket, or at other public charges will be enough for a decent amount of drivers.

Yes this is what my sister in law does in East London, charges when needed at the local Lidl.

From a practical viewpoint fine but a massive cost difference. At home with an overnight EV tariff <10p/kWh.

If this page is up to date Lidl charge 40p/kWh at the 7kW and 22kW chargers and 65p/kWh at the 50kW chargers.
At 40p/kWh the EV cost per mile is getting into ICE territory without any fuel duty replacement charge.

How Much It Costs To Charge An Electric Car at Tesco in 2023

Here's how much it currently costs to charge your car at Tesco and other major supermarkets, and what charging speeds you can expect.

www.theecoexperts.co.uk

I have hypothetically pondered given the pricing of EV's and long term i.e. 10-year depreciation being unknown if I bought an EV costing £36,000 rather than the equivalent ICE car at £24,000 and covered 60,000 miles even if the electricity for the EV was free while fuel for the ICE cost 15p/mile and allowing some saving on maintenance if the ICE car would still have cost less.

 

[trebor79]

I have hypothetically pondered given the pricing of EV's and long term i.e. 10-year depreciation being unknown if I bought an EV costing £36,000 rather than the equivalent ICE car at £24,000 and covered 60,000 miles even if the electricity for the EV was free while fuel for the ICE cost 15p/mile and allowing some saving on maintenance if the ICE car would still have cost less.

You avoid £9k of fuel costs. So that brings the difference down to £3k. The EV will be worth more in 10 years than an ICE for which fuel will be very expensive.
My old 208 would be costing 17p a mile in fuel alone at today's fuel prices. My EV costs less than 2p.
EV is a much better driving experience too. Maintenance is also a fraction of ICE.

 

[The Ham]

From a practical viewpoint fine but a massive cost difference. At home with an overnight EV tariff <10p/kWh.

If this page is up to date Lidl charge 40p/kWh at the 7kW and 22kW chargers and 65p/kWh at the 50kW chargers.
At 40p/kWh the EV cost per mile is getting into ICE territory without any fuel duty replacement charge.




I have hypothetically pondered given the pricing of EV's and long term i.e. 10-year depreciation being unknown if I bought an EV costing £36,000 rather than the equivalent ICE car at £24,000 and covered 60,000 miles even if the electricity for the EV was free while fuel for the ICE cost 15p/mile and allowing some saving on maintenance if the ICE car would still have cost less.

For a 12 year old Grand C Max with 135,000 on the clock it's about 10% of the purchase cost (about £3,000).

If you had to replace your EV battery, you'd want to keep the car for a few years to "earn" back some of the cost you put into it. However, with a nearly new battery your EV would probably be worth more than the ICE.

Doing 6,000 miles a year (13 miles each way to work each working day and zero other miles) I'd question if car ownership is right for you. Certainly a new car is a false economy, in that either of the two suggested (assuming 90% depreciation) is going to be 3.6p/mile or 5.4p/mile just in vehicle purchase cost (assuming no interest on any loan).

Even owning a car from it being 3 to 10 years old (65% of new cost to 10% of new cost would reduce that purchase cost to 2.8p/mile or 4.1p/mile.

Compare that with an expensive e-bike at £6,000 which would be (even from 100% to £0) would be 1p a mile, with lower fuel costs and much lower maintenance costs (not least only needing to replace 2 tyres which are much smaller and therefore cheaper).

Get one at £4,500 and you're at 0.75p per mile and this one would certainly be a fair contender:

Bianchi Impulso E-Road review

Serious assistance and a great ride

www.bikeradar.com

(Even then there's options which are half decent for much lower costs, as that's a review by someone clearly into road/racing bikes and they didn't have much in the negative side to say about it).

 

[RailWonderer]

You avoid £9k of fuel costs. So that brings the difference down to £3k. The EV will be worth more in 10 years than an ICE for which fuel will be very expensive.
My old 208 would be costing 17p a mile in fuel alone at today's fuel prices. My EV costs less than 2p.
EV is a much better driving experience too. Maintenance is also a fraction of ICE.

By that metric EVs should retain more of their value. Even with petrol and diesel cars, the more reliable and cheaper to maintain a car is, added to how many were built (and how hard it is to find a good one) the more it retains its value.

 

[jon0844]

For a 12 year old Grand C Max with 135,000 on the clock it's about 10% of the purchase cost (about £3,000).

If you had to replace your EV battery, you'd want to keep the car for a few years to "earn" back some of the cost you put into it. However, with a nearly new battery your EV would probably be worth more than the ICE.

Doing 6,000 miles a year (13 miles each way to work each working day and zero other miles) I'd question if car ownership is right for you. Certainly a new car is a false economy, in that either of the two suggested (assuming 90% depreciation) is going to be 3.6p/mile or 5.4p/mile just in vehicle purchase cost (assuming no interest on any loan).

Even owning a car from it being 3 to 10 years old (65% of new cost to 10% of new cost would reduce that purchase cost to 2.8p/mile or 4.1p/mile.

Compare that with an expensive e-bike at £6,000 which would be (even from 100% to £0) would be 1p a mile, with lower fuel costs and much lower maintenance costs (not least only needing to replace 2 tyres which are much smaller and therefore cheaper).

Get one at £4,500 and you're at 0.75p per mile and this one would certainly be a fair contender:

Bianchi Impulso E-Road review

Serious assistance and a great ride

www.bikeradar.com

(Even then there's options which are half decent for much lower costs, as that's a review by someone clearly into road/racing bikes and they didn't have much in the negative side to say about it).

A large YouTube bike channel recently tested the cheapest e-bike on Amazon (£600 or so I think) and they were quite impressed, and somewhat surprised - and the same week they were reviewing bikes many times the cost. The brakes weren't great, but easily adjusted.

Now the issue would more likely be how safe it was in terms of battery/BMS and charger - as Amazon is sadly not too concerned with checking credentials when it comes to type approvals and the like.

I couldn't go without a car, but having one car and an e-bike has been working well in our household so far. The problem for me is that I won't leave it anywhere, even with decent locks.

Bike theft is ridiculous and the police aren't interested, so I cycle only where I can leave my bike safely stored somewhere. Until that's addressed, many people aren't going to consider a bike whatever cars cost in comparison.

 

[The Ham]

A large YouTube bike channel recently tested the cheapest e-bike on Amazon (£600 or so I think) and they were quite impressed, and somewhat surprised - and the same week they were reviewing bikes many times the cost. The brakes weren't great, but easily adjusted.

Now the issue would more likely be how safe it was in terms of battery/BMS and charger - as Amazon is sadly not too concerned with checking credentials when it comes to type approvals and the like.

I couldn't go without a car, but having one car and an e-bike has been working well in our household so far. The problem for me is that I won't leave it anywhere, even with decent locks.

Bike theft is ridiculous and the police aren't interested, so I cycle only where I can leave my bike safely stored somewhere. Until that's addressed, many people aren't going to consider a bike whatever cars cost in comparison.

Of course there's a range of prices, I went for something (whilst not the most expensive by some margin) which the review had it on a par with the non e-bike version (and the type of cycling where the weight of the cycle is often seen as a key component - i.e. lighter is better) and it still held its own.

Depending on where people are living it could be that they have access to a car club car, which could reduce the "need" for a car further and so they could hire a car when they need it and cycle the rest of the time.

Work places are often happy to make small investments to keep staff, as such it could be that a cycle locker/hanger is something which they could install. Especially if the member of staff says "I would rather sacrifice the extra money I'm due to have for this year as a pay rise (and/or bonus) if you provide ...."

Obviously that's not going to be a great offer if the person wants a £7,500 cycle hanger (with space for 5 cycles and only one person cycles) installed and their on £20,000 and their pay increase is 1% (£200), however if it's £3,000 cycle locker and their on £35,000 and their pay rise is going to be 3.5% (£1,225) it's a much more tempting thing to consider. Especially given that it's going to mean that the individual is less likely to leave.

 

[Bantamzen]

But without installing them first how on earth are they going to make a profit? You can’t make a profit from something that doesn’t exist (or something one of your commercial rivals have installed because you were too slow).

And herein lies the problem. Unlike setting up petrol stations where they get permission for one site, they are going to have to work with local authorities as well as all other utility companies to plan installation of absolutely hundreds of thousands of kerbside charging points. Its a massive job that will take decades. As with so many eco-friendly policies, everyone is focused on the end game, no-one has quite worked out how we get there.

 

[jon0844]

Of course there's a range of prices, I went for something (whilst not the most expensive by some margin) which the review had it on a par with the non e-bike version (and the type of cycling where the weight of the cycle is often seen as a key component - i.e. lighter is better) and it still held its own.

Depending on where people are living it could be that they have access to a car club car, which could reduce the "need" for a car further and so they could hire a car when they need it and cycle the rest of the time.

Work places are often happy to make small investments to keep staff, as such it could be that a cycle locker/hanger is something which they could install. Especially if the member of staff says "I would rather sacrifice the extra money I'm due to have for this year as a pay rise (and/or bonus) if you provide ...."

Obviously that's not going to be a great offer if the person wants a £7,500 cycle hanger (with space for 5 cycles and only one person cycles) installed and their on £20,000 and their pay increase is 1% (£200), however if it's £3,000 cycle locker and their on £35,000 and their pay rise is going to be 3.5% (£1,225) it's a much more tempting thing to consider. Especially given that it's going to mean that the individual is less likely to leave.

My e-bike was a little under £2k, but before e-bikes came along I think it was accepted that you could get a pretty good bike for £400-500. A hub motor and battery isn't really that expensive, so it stands to reason that you can get acceptable ones below £1k BUT with the risk of it not being fully tested or using the best battery.

As always, things like the weight, durability off road and many other factors play a part.

I guess e-bikes will become so common one day that an older one could become less appealing to a thief in much the same way as you can get a battered bike and find it less appealing than the shinier one locked up next to you. Until then, it is going to put a lot of people off.

There's also a heap of objections to overcome that are probably on a par with people who are against EVs - like not being able to buy furniture at IKEA, do your monthly shop, take your ten kids to school, cycle in the rain or snow, and so on. Because all cyclists do all of those things all the time.

 

[Noddy]

From a practical viewpoint fine but a massive cost difference. At home with an overnight EV tariff <10p/kWh.

If this page is up to date Lidl charge 40p/kWh at the 7kW and 22kW chargers and 65p/kWh at the 50kW chargers.
At 40p/kWh the EV cost per mile is getting into ICE territory without any fuel duty replacement charge.

This is close but not quite right. At current prices:

EV at 4kW/mile at £0.40=£0.1p per mile
Petrol ICE at 50mpg at £1.56litre*=0.142p per mile.

*Todays UK average price according to the RAC tracker.

So the EV is still quite a bit cheaper per mile even at 40p per kWh.
And there are a couple of other things to consider.

In terms of kWh pricing if you are only charging on public infrastructure there are a number of subscription services available. It all depends on your mileage, but for example the top subscription on Bonnet is £8 per month but gives you 15% off charging at their supported networks. I imagine the subscription market will hot up over the next few years.

The other thing to consider is that electricity prices are still very high due to our reliance on gas but if the government commits to Wind/Solar/Nuclear, prices will fall in the UK. But no matter how many North Sea licences are or aren’t granted it won’t make a difference to fuel prices. OPEC control the price and they are very likely to gouge the market over the next couple of decades in order to get every last cent out before it ends (which they know it will do).

And herein lies the problem. Unlike setting up petrol stations where they get permission for one site, they are going to have to work with local authorities as well as all other utility companies to plan installation of absolutely hundreds of thousands of kerbside charging points. Its a massive job that will take decades. As with so many eco-friendly policies, everyone is focused on the end game, no-one has quite worked out how we get there.

I find it interesting you keep changing your argument. First it was because the government isn’t paying 100% for them, then it’s because private companies require a profit, and now it’s because it a massive job. Onstreet charging has been successfully deployed in a wide range of places (from Westminster to Hungerford) so the companies are clearly getting there. I don’t doubt it will take some years before they are ubiquitous, and that currently outside the 32 London boroughs they are rare, apart from a handful of places. But why would you install them all everywhere now when EVs account for less than 5% of the market share and consumers will still be able to buy a new ICE car for the next 11+years. In 2035 the infrastructure will be very different.

 

[Bantamzen]

I find it interesting you keep changing your argument. First it was because the government isn’t paying 100% for them, then it’s because private companies require a profit, and now it’s because it a massive job. Onstreet charging has been successfully deployed in a wide range of places (from Westminster to Hungerford) so the companies are clearly getting there. I don’t doubt it will take some years before they are ubiquitous, and that currently outside the 32 London boroughs they are rare, apart from a handful of places. But why would you install them all everywhere now when EVs account for less than 5% of the market share and consumers will still be able to buy a new ICE car for the next 11+years. In 2035 the infrastructure will be very different.

Who exactly is changing what argument? You seem to be labouring under the delusion that I am somehow arguing against EVs. I am not, I am simply pointing out the logistical reality of making EVs affordable and convenient for everyone, not just a handful of better off people. Come back to me when you have something to offer towards that solution.

 

[Noddy]

Who exactly is changing what argument? You seem to be labouring under the delusion that I am somehow arguing against EVs. I am not, I am simply pointing out the logistical reality of making EVs affordable and convenient for everyone, not just a handful of better off people. Come back to me when you have something to offer towards that solution.

As I pointed out in my previous post the fuel cost per mile of an EV vs ICE is, with today’s prices, about 30% cheaper (even using default prices of public charging infrastructure and no one should be paying this if they rely on public infrastructure). And I also pointed out that this gap is only likely to get wider over the next few years as electricity prices fall back and OPEC gouge the oil market. Clearly there is a higher initial cost of buying a new EV but this gap is falling. The second hand market has simply not developed yet. And public infrastructure is improving every day thanks to private sector and government funding. I’m not going to have a solution for you because you want a solution to something that isn’t reality.

 

[bspahh]

This is close but not quite right. At current prices:

EV at 4kW/mile at £0.40=£0.1p per mile
Petrol ICE at 50mpg at £1.56litre*=0.142p per mile.

Its 10p per mile for an electric vehicle, 14.2p per mile for a petrol engine.

 

[Bantamzen]

As I pointed out in my previous post the fuel cost per mile of an EV vs ICE is, with today’s prices, about 30% cheaper (even using default prices of public charging infrastructure and no one should be paying this if they rely on public infrastructure).

This only becomes relevant if the cost of buying EVs is competitive with ICEs, which at this time they are not. If people can't afford to buy an EV they won't, regardless of future fuel costs.

And I also pointed out that this gap is only likely to get wider over the next few years as electricity prices fall back and OPEC gouge the oil market. Clearly there is a higher initial cost of buying a new EV but this gap is falling. The second hand market has simply not developed yet.

But not by enough to make a difference for many years.

And public infrastructure is improving every day thanks to private sector and government funding.

Is it though? Maybe in those areas you mentioned previously, but for many areas there is little no nothing going on because funding just isn't there. Why do you think Sunak is talking about dialling back eco-policies?

I’m not going to have a solution for you because you want a solution to something that isn’t reality.

I literally have no idea what you mean by this. But to clarify my position, what I want are solutions that can be applied in the real world, a world that right now doesn't have unlimited funds or resources to throw at the problem.

 

[The Lad]

Isn't it 4 miles per kWh?

 

[Noddy]

Its 10p per mile for an electric vehicle, 14.2p per mile for a petrol engine.

Yep that’s what I calculated, although I can see now it’s not clear from the way I presented it! Obviously there are many variables but the cross over price where electricity becomes more expensive per mile than fuel on those calculations is about 57p per kWh.

what I want are solutions that can be applied in the real world, a world that right now doesn't have unlimited funds or resources to throw at the problem.

The problem with this argument is you are effectively saying you want something for free, which everyone knows is never going to happen. The reality is in terms of charging infrastructure thousands of new public points are added every month (over 2700 new points in August 2023 alone according to ZapMap), through investment by government and the private sector. I’m not sure what you expect any other solution to be: faster? slower? Cheaper? More expensive?

 

[Bantamzen]

The problem with this argument is you are effectively saying you want something for free, which everyone knows is never going to happen. The reality is in terms of charging infrastructure thousands of new public points are added every month (over 2700 new points in August 2023 alone according to ZapMap), through investment by government and the private sector. I’m not sure what you expect any other solution to be: faster? slower? Cheaper? More expensive?

Where are you getting this idea from? It is quite literally not what I am saying. What I want to know is how building up the infrastructure to allow mass uptake of EVs will be funded, as in many parts of the country there is little to no progress on this.

 

[Noddy]

Where are you getting this idea from? It is quite literally not what I am saying. What I want to know is how building up the infrastructure to allow mass uptake of EVs will be funded, as in many parts of the country there is little to no progress on this.

As I stated in my earlier post low speed onstreet charging infrastructure (eg Shell Ubitricity) is currently being funded with a 60/40 split between government and private sector (Shell for example). This is happening now. The solution is here.

For super fast charging DC networks the cost of the station is usually paid for by the charging company and ultimately the user. Ionity recently raised 700 million Euros and Gridserve £526 million to fund expansion of their respective networks.

 

[Harpers Tate]

40p/kWh - sure. But, for those who can - a cheap overnight domestic tariff at 8p/kWh (for round figures) is 2p/mile which is a whole other ballpark. I presently pay 4.5p/kWh. I know there is at least one tariff currently available at 9p. ICE users don't get any such choice (unless they home-brew diesel from used chip fat etc.)

 

[Bantamzen]

As I stated in my earlier post low speed onstreet charging infrastructure (eg Shell Ubitricity) is currently being funded with a 60/40 split between government and private sector (Shell for example). This is happening now. The solution is here.

For super fast charging DC networks the cost of the station is usually paid for by the charging company and ultimately the user. Ionity recently raised 700 million Euros and Gridserve £526 million to fund expansion of their respective networks.

Not everywhere, in fact not in most places. I'm sorry but for the most part there is practically zero investment in on-street charging across much of the country.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2023 ==

Oh and last year the UK government allocated a whopping £30m to local authorities to apply for grants to provide on-street charging points.

On-Street Residential Chargepoint Scheme guidance for local authorities

Guidance for local authorities with live projects to deliver on-street residential chargepoints for plug-in electric vehicles.

www.gov.uk

We have allocated £30 million of funding in 2022 to 2023 for the scheme. This funding is available to local authorities for eligible projects as specified.

Funding is for up to 60% of eligible capital costs. We expect many projects to require less funding. Total funding provided will not exceed £7,500 per chargepoint unless electrical connection costs are exceptionally high. In these cases, funding up to £13,000 per chargepoint may be provided.

Wow, what a massive investment!

 

[paul1609]

Seriously, just try one and take it on a long journey. You'll wonder what all the fuss was about!
Obviously a ten year old Leaf isn't the right car for a long journey, just as a Tesla Model X isn't the right car for a city runabout. Something Like a Tesla model 3, Kia EV6, Hyundai Ionic 5, Audi/Cupra/VW range, MG 4, MG 5 and maybe even Jaguar IPace (very cheap used compared to as new price) as all sensible cars that are very easy to live with. Bit cheaper are Kia Niro, Hyundai Kona and the MG ZS which are all perfectly capable and decent enough range in large battery variants but a bit slower to charge.

Ive done just what you've suggested and decided on a 2 year old Toyota Yaris Cross instead. I thought the MG4 was the best EV but I don't really want to be looking for chargers by Peterborough on trips to my brother in the lakes. I'm the sort of person who avoids extortionately priced motorway and trunk road service areas. Other weak points were the lack of steering feedback and awfully implemented lane keeping and speed limit reckonition which are a right faff to turn every single time you start the car. By comparison the 5th generation Toyota integration is rather good.
I find myself in the unusual situation of agreeing with Miltonyte next time maybe.

 

[trebor79]

Ive done just what you've suggested and decided on a 2 year old Toyota Yaris Cross instead. I thought the MG4 was the best EV but I don't really want to be looking for chargers by Peterborough on trips to my brother in the lakes. I'm the sort of person who avoids extortionately priced motorway and trunk road service areas.

But you don't "look for chargers". You put the journey into one of several nav options that integrate charging stops for you, similar to the built in solution on my Tesla. I literally never worry about charging in either the Tesla or the Kia, I just do what the nav tells me.
Most charging hubs are away from motorway service areas (because they are often in the middle of nowhere with poor power connections designed before high powered car chargers were even in our imagination).
You didn't like the MG4, fair enough but there are loads of other options.

 

[Acey]

I don't really know much about all this but did wonder how big a solar panel would you need to charge an EV( daytime obviously ) or even if it is viable ?

 

[Greybeard33]

Not everywhere, in fact not in most places. I'm sorry but for the most part there is practically zero investment in on-street charging across much of the country.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2023 ==

Oh and last year the UK government allocated a whopping £30m to local authorities to apply for grants to provide on-street charging points.

Wow, what a massive investment!

Surely the terraced house "problem" can be solved without massive investment in on-street charging points? Just a bit of paint to mark individual residents-only parking bays outside each house. Plus a cantilever bracket attached to the front of the house to swing the charging cable out above the pavement, so avoiding a trip hazard.

Simples!

 

[Noddy]

I don't really know much about all this but did wonder how big a solar panel would you need to charge an EV( daytime obviously ) or even if it is viable ?

It depends on your circumstances. The Zappi does solar divert-however the minimum power needs to be above about 1.3/1.4kW(?), if you are producing less than this it will cut off. So I would say you probably need a minimum of 2.5-3kW to make it worth while. In terms of what mileage you can expect it depends on how much your car is at home during the day. I think it’s perfect for night shift workers, but no good if you use you car to commute to work everyday. For context our 3.4kW system produced 398kWh in August. If you could put 100% of that into the car that would give you about 1200 miles, but obviously you will never be able to do this because you are out/you have the oven on/the car is already fully charged/you are producing less than 1.4kW etc. The other thing to keep in mind is that it is possible to get 7.5p per kWh import tariffs (eg Intelligent Octopus) but some export tariffs that are higher than this. So it makes more economic sense to export everything you can (ie not charge your car using solar) and then import to charge your car at the cheaper rate.

 

[paul1609]

Bear in mind that whilst the average 4KW solar panel in the UK produces up to 16 kwh per day in summer say 50 miles in an electric car after conversion losses, in the winter months this falls to around 1.2 kwh per day about 4 miles. Unless you've got a huge array in your garden or a castle your solar panels aren't going to support the average commute.

 

[greyman42]

Surely the terraced house "problem" can be solved without massive investment in on-street charging points? Just a bit of paint to mark individual residents-only parking bays outside each house.

It would need wardens, who would need paying, to enforce the parking bays or people will just park where they want. It would also need a parking permit system which is also going to cost money.

 

[MotCO]

The Daily Telegraph has an article today regarding insufficient motorway charging points and the measures being taken to avoid 'charge rage'. Yes, it is probably hyped up, but there does seem to be concern that there are problems in trying to increase capacity, and I assume that if they can't get sufficient power to the service stations, there may not be a supply available off-motorway.

Motorway service stations hiring staff to police surging levels of EV ‘charge rage’

Moto hires staff to manage queues and prevent conflicts over limited charging points

www.telegraph.co.uk

Motorway service stations hiring staff to police surging levels of EV ‘charge rage’​

Moto hires staff to manage queues and prevent conflicts over limited charging points

Britain’s biggest motorway service station provider has brought in marshals to police “charge rage” among electric vehicle drivers battling for access to plug-in points.
Moto chief executive Ken McMeikan warned the UK’s motorway service stations are facing growing “public disorder” due to a lack of grid connections preventing him from installing enough car chargers to meet the surge in demand.
It means many motorists are facing long waits, with angry drivers confronting staff and each other over the lack of charging facilities.
Mr McMeikan said the delays made drivers “very angry and stressed” and warned of the growing risk of “charge rage” on Britain’s motorways.
He said: “People need to drive their EV cars around without range anxiety, without long queues and without public disorder but at peak seasonal times we are experiencing all this now.”
Moto, which runs 49 motorway services around the UK, has already introduced marshalls at Exeter, Rugby and Wetherby to manage EV queues and prevent conflicts during busy periods.




Mr McMeikan, 58, who drives an EV himself, said he had told the government of the problem and warned ministers that public disorder incidents would grow.
He told The Telegraph: “I’ve been saying to them that the grid does not have sufficient capacity right now to deliver the power we need at the time we need it.


“If we don’t get that amount of power guaranteed, then in coming years every Christmas, every Easter, every summer holiday and peak bank holiday will be the equivalent of when we have a fuel crisis on petrol and diesel.”

Six-hour queues​

Electric car drivers were forced to queue for up to six hours at some service stations across the UK last Christmas.
Unlike a petrol or diesel engine that takes just minutes to fill, a typical electric car will take at least half an hour to recharge. It means many more charging stations are needed to service EVs.
The Moto chief is the latest senior business leader to warn that long delays in connecting to the grid are holding back the rolling out of charging points.
The chief executive of Gridserve, one of Britain’s biggest electric car charging companies, told The Telegraph earlier this month that delays had forced his business to rely on batteries and generators to power up vehicles.
Mr McMeikan said: “You’ll see queues of people and public disorder because there wasn’t enough power delivered to motorway service areas… to allow people to charge their car and then continue their journey.
“There is a view in government that, rather than provide the power to guarantee sufficient numbers of chargers, we should be thinking about how we manage queues.”

Public disorder risk​

Mr McMeikan said he had repeatedly told Jesse Norman, the minister for transport decarbonisation, that making EV motorists queue would put his staff and motorists at risk of “charge rage.”
“I’ve had conversations with Jesse Norman, with special advisers and with National Highways who are responsible for managing the motorway network. They are all responsible for ensuring chargers are being deployed on the motorways but they are not doing it. They are not addressing the fundamental issue, which is electrical power.”
There are already about 850,000 electric vehicles on UK roads and two in ten of the new cars registered in August were EVs.
Despite recently delaying a ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles, the Government last week confirmed that more than a fifth of new cars sold by manufacturers in the UK next year must be zero emission, rising to 80pc by 2030.



Mr McMeikan was formerly the chief executive at Greggs and led the rebellion against the government’s 2012 “pasty tax”, which was ultimately abandoned.
He said he now planned to take the government on again, accusing it of letting motorists down by failing to ensure motorway services were given grid connections.
The lack of action has forced Moto to seek planning permission for up to 25 solar farms next to its service stations to “guarantee an amount of power that we require for EV drivers,” Mr McMeikan said.
“I’m so frustrated and so concerned.”





Asif Ghafoor, the chief executive of public charge network Be.EV, said queues seen at motorway services last Christmas had been “a nightmare” and called for the planning and grid connection process to be streamlined.
He said: “Ambitious targets aside, the reality is that every leg of the planning, permissions, sourcing power and building process slows an installation down… Anyone can see this is nowhere near quick enough to keep up with the amount of drivers transitioning to EVs.”
James Court, chief executive of the Electric Vehicle Association for England, which represents EV drivers, said: “Grid connections seem to be holding back quicker deployment.
“We are in a situation where investors are keen to get going, and we shouldn’t need huge government investment now with private companies leading the way, yet we do need a clear plan from the government, as well as reform on planning and connection.”
A DfT spokesperson said: “Around 96pc of motorway service areas already have charging available and we know the industry has plans to install hundreds more charge points in the coming months.
“The Government has put more than £2bn into the transition to electric vehicles, with the number of public charge points across the country increasing by 43pc since last year – putting us well on track to have 300,000 charge points by 2030.”

 

[Noddy]

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Oh and last year the UK government allocated a whopping £30m to local authorities to apply for grants to provide on-street charging points.

On-Street Residential Chargepoint Scheme guidance for local authorities

Guidance for local authorities with live projects to deliver on-street residential chargepoints for plug-in electric vehicles.

www.gov.uk

Wow, what a massive investment!

I’m not sure that lamppost charger are that expensive. Happy to be corrected but they tap into the existing electricity network so don’t need massive infrastructure upgrades (unlike fast DC charging stations which usually require new high powered grid connections and very expensive kit). It’s widely report they take about 2-3 hours to install, and according to this article from 2017 installations were costing £1000 per installation.

A £1,000 conversion can turn lamp posts into electric car chargers

EV owners will need to purchase a specialist smart charging cable, which holds all metering and billing information that is then relayed to the user's mobile electricity contract.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

Now obviously we’ve had massive inflation since 2017 and some upgrade work may be required in some areas which would increase the cost. But 30 million is still enough to pay for 1000s per year. And note from the article in 2017 the funding for ORCS was just £2.5million. And that’s just the government funded ones. Some private sector companies will pay 100% of the costs (although these are typically more expensive networks).

I suspect the main issue as to why there are ‘deserts’ outside of London is, if we are being kind, inertia from councils and if we are unkind because they are actively opposing installation of onstreet charging. For example York Councils EV charging strategy relies entirely on a series of hubs across the city because the council policy makers believe it gives a better user experience (no idea why they have this idea) and they also appear to be very strongly against street furniture in the pavement or road.

https://www.york.gov.uk/downloads/file/6264/city-of-york-public-ev-charging-strategy

Those issues are opinions of the council, and to me don’t appear to be based in (practical) reality. In many authorities I imagine there are folk in positions of authority who are EV sceptics, or simply have other priorities, or don’t have the same pressure from their constituents as in London and this is why we haven’t seen the same levels of roll out. But it’s coming, and quickly (except for York!).