I'm travelling from Kings Cross to Dundee, with a toddler. I'll get on a direct train, and if all goes well we'll stay on there till Dundee. Does the ticket let me get off early if needs-be, though? Would basically be on the off chance the toddler is kicking off and won't settle (it's by far my longest train ride with him). I'd buy a new ticket when we got back on the train - it's more to check that there wouldn't be any problems with getting out at Berwick or Waverley if the baby takes against a long train ride.
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Can I get off early on an Advance Single (1st class)?
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Strictly speaking you can't (in either class) but staff will normally exercise discretion provided your fare isn't significantly less than the equivalent to wherever.
Indeed in the circs I would ask the LNER train manager if they could endorse your ticket to travel by a later train - they can only say no!
It depends what ticket you've got.
If it's an Advance ticket then you must travel on your booked train (unless there's disruption etc)
If you're travelling on a Super Off Peak Single or Anytime Single which are the only other tickets available between Kinsg Cross and Dundee then you'd be fine to stop off en-route, take a break and re-join a later train.
If it's an Advance ticket then you must travel on your booked train (unless there's disruption etc)
If you're travelling on a Super Off Peak Single or Anytime Single which are the only other tickets available between Kinsg Cross and Dundee then you'd be fine to stop off en-route, take a break and re-join a later train.
Thanks for the replies! I think the advance tickets I'm looking at may be marginally cheaper than some shorter journeys (e.g. a £130 advance single to Dundee, where I might save a tenner vs an advance single to Edinburgh) but hopefully the train manager would likely still exercise discretion? I'd hope most most parents wouldn't enrage a toddler to save a tenner!
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Personally I wouldn't recommend trying to take a break en-route with an Advance ticket. Getting off the initial train won't be an issue but you're likely to encounter more than one train manager when you resume your journey due to crew changes at places like Newcastle and Edinburgh.
A Super Off Peak Single from Kings Cross to Dundee is £96.40 for an adult. Assuming your toddler is under 5 then they don't need a ticket (albeit they're not entitled to a seat). But if you have a Family & Friends Railcard (which costs £30 for a year sometimes you can get there are offers) then an adult ticket would cost £63.60 and £18.30 for the toddler (to use the railcard there has to be at least 1 adult and 1 child travelling). With this ticket the toddler also gets a seat.
I don't know how this compares to the price of Advance tickets but I'd prefer to go for the hassle free journey.
If you want the ability to break your journey, I would suggest a Super Off Peak Single, which would allow this.
If you purchase a Family Railcard, you would get a third off the fare for yourself on the condition that you also purchase a discounted child ticket for your toddler; the sum of these fares is less than the undiscounted Adult fare and also gives you two seats instead of just one.
If you do get an Advance fare to Dundee, you are not allowed to break your journey and this also means you are not supposed to finish short; in practice you are likely to be able to get away with finishing short but you would need to purchase a new ticket for your onward journey from the intermediate station to Dundee.
Bread & cheese
Member
While I would second the advice to buy a superoffpeak ticket, it may be of interest to note that one of the Frequently Asked Questions about Travelling with Advance Tickets on the internal National Rail website deals with finishing short:
Q: Can a passenger alight short of the destination on their Advance ticket, or board after the origin shown on their Advance ticket but on the same booked train?
A: Although Advance tickets are intended to be used only between the origin and destination stations shown on the ticket, there may be occasions where a passenger joins the correct train but at a later station, or alights earlier than the indicated destination. Although this is not strictly in accordance with the rules for Advance tickets, the Rail industry has agreed that in such cases, no additional fare should be charged (unless there is clear evidence of intent to try and avoid a higher fare).
Q: Can a passenger alight short of the destination on their Advance ticket, or board after the origin shown on their Advance ticket but on the same booked train?
A: Although Advance tickets are intended to be used only between the origin and destination stations shown on the ticket, there may be occasions where a passenger joins the correct train but at a later station, or alights earlier than the indicated destination. Although this is not strictly in accordance with the rules for Advance tickets, the Rail industry has agreed that in such cases, no additional fare should be charged (unless there is clear evidence of intent to try and avoid a higher fare).
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They would be downgrading to Standard by doing that, though. The non-advance 1st class tickets are rather expensive and unfortunately a Family and Friends Railcard can't be used for 1st class fares.
That's all really useful - thanks! If we get a super off-peak standard class ticket, could we just get the 10am out of London and then hop off/on the train depending if the toddler is wanting to escape? Probably the best option! First class non-advance tickets are unfortunately expensive, as you say.
How does the £45 upgrade to 1st work? The extra space would be nice, and someone coming by every so often to bring the toddler food might help
We'd be travelling on a weekday.
How does the £45 upgrade to 1st work? The extra space would be nice, and someone coming by every so often to bring the toddler food might help
We'd be travelling on a weekday.Yes.
Indeed.
On non-peak LNER trains, you can upgrade onboard to 1st by just taking a seat and paying the train manager when they come round. See https://www.lner.co.uk/support/faq/...ass/upgrade-to-first-class-onboard-the-train/ for details. I am not sure to what extent this is compatible with your "hop on and off" plan; strictly speaking these onboard upgrades are only valid for the train on which they are sold.How does the £45 upgrade to 1st work? The extra space would be nice, and someone coming by every so often to bring the toddler food might help
Yes
You find a seat (if there is one) and pay the Guard when they come round. If you want two seats, you'll likely need to pay £90 (there is no child discount for upgrades but an under 5 would be free if they sit on your lap!)How does the £45 upgrade to 1st work? The extra space would be nice, and someone coming by every so often to bring the toddler food might help
You would get two rounds of light meals (which could be anything from a sandwich or bacon roll up to a small portion of a proper cooked meal, depending on the train you catch and availability and how busy it is, etc)
I am not sure if the upgrade would be good for break of journey though; I suspect not. If you broke your journey at York it would be £35 from there.
Also the Scotrail HSTs are well worth travelling on north of Edinburgh; there may be an affordable upgrade on those, but I'm not sure. What day of the week is it?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If they're sold in the same way as Weekend First was, then they're effectively walk up tickets, or rather take the conditions of the ticket they're associated to (other than that they're not valid for more than one day). Avanti certainly (edit: used to pre-Standard Premium) sell them for journeys involving a change of trains, e.g. they'll sell one for North Wales to Milton Keynes Central with a change at Crewe without that change being specified.
Not 100% sure how LNER work it, though.
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Yes I am sure if the journey involved a change it would be fine, but that's a different question to taking a 1000 train from London to Aberdeen, getting off somewhere for a break of journey and resuming on one of the later trains to Aberdeen.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, agree, I thought the OP was just talking about "if my kid gets unsettled can I take him off to sit at the station for a bit and calm them down", not "can we stop off at York for the day at the museum then take the last train".
Edited my post slightly as Avanti no longer do the example I gave as Standard Premium isn't offered on Voyagers. But I've done exactly that when it was Weekend First.
It doesn't matter on ScotRail.
The First Class upgrade on Inter7City services is £15 every day of the week regardless of distance.
The supplements are called Weekday First and Weekend First, but I've had Weekday First issued on the weekend and v.v...
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The supplements are printed with "only valid with ticket number XXXXX" rather than referencing a specific train service.
So I'm not sure why they wouldn't be valid with a break of journey.
But I've never had reason to check this.
Of course, the time of issue and the issuer details printed on the supplement may cause a train manager on a later train to query it.
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