BRIGHTLINE Miami to Orlando

[AdamWW]

All of the AEM-7 electric locos (RIP...) were 125mph capable, as were the Amfleet passenger cars, so NEC regional & corridor services could run at 125mph if operated with all-Amfleet consists.

My recollection (maybe wrong?) is that in the late 90's when I used the corridor services occasionally, the Metroliners ran at 125 mph with an AEM-7 and Amfleet coaches but the regular corridor trains didn't go as fast. They were of course AEM-7 hauled and I suspect they were also all Amfleet though maybe they had "heritage" baggage cars. And the overnight one (Twighlight Shoreliner I thnk) had Viewliners, of course.

I don't think the Metroliners were faster than regular corridor trains just by missing out more stops.

 

[ac6000cw]

I don't know how they intepret "impenetrable" but it doesn't look as if conventional full barriers will suffice.

That's my take on it too - I think grade crossings over 110mph would need something like a row of very hefty rising bollards or a rising metal wall, sufficient to stop a large truck from getting on the tracks.

My recollection (maybe wrong?) is that in the late 90's when I used the corridor services occasionally, the Metroliners ran at 125 mph with an AEM-7 and Amfleet coaches but the regular corridor trains didn't go as fast. They were of course AEM-7 hauled and I suspect they were also all Amfleet though maybe they had "heritage" baggage cars. And the overnight one (Twighlight Shoreliner I thnk) had Viewliners, of course.

I don't think the Metroliners were faster than regular corridor trains just by missing out more stops.

I think when the Acelas arrived, that enabled a cascade of some of the Amfleet cars onto 'lesser' services, pushing out some older non-125mph capable stock.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Good to see this open at last, and hope the extension to Disney / Tampa comes off.

So do I but Universal seem to be doing their best to scupper it and Disney have lost interest.

 

[AdamWW]

That's my take on it too - I think grade crossings over 110mph would need something like a row of very hefty rising bollards or a rising metal wall, sufficient to stop a large truck from getting on the tracks.


I think when the Acelas arrived, that enabled a cascade of some of the Amfleet cars onto 'lesser' services, pushing out some older non-125mph capable stock.

The corridor trains prior to that certainly used Amfleets.

That's my take on it too - I think grade crossings over 110mph would need something like a row of very hefty rising bollards or a rising metal wall, sufficient to stop a large truck from getting on the tracks.

Yes although sometimes I get caught out because North American terminology means things I don't expect.
I can't think of anywhere I've seen such a design of level crossing.
(But I'd argue that so long as there is sufficient obstacle detection, such a thing would be acceptably safe for trains at any speed, though possibly somewhat inconvenient for road traffic with the amount of time they'd have to wit before the train passed).

 

[Backroom_boy]

(And I do hope the story I read that the State government wanted Bright Line to recompense then for loss of toll road income due to people catching the train wasn't true).

Pretty sure it is true which does sound crazy but I think it's part of the cost of allowing the railway to be built on the toll road ROW.

 

[AdamWW]

Pretty sure it is true which does sound crazy but I think it's part of the cost of allowing the railway to be built on the toll road ROW.

It does seem somewhat bizarre but then again I've also read that at one point the cost benefit analysis for rail investment in the UK had to take loss of motoring taxes into account (this may of course also not be true).

 

[ac6000cw]

The corridor trains prior to that certainly used Amfleets.

Yes, I know, but I don't have detailed enough knowledge of the changes over the years on the NEC to know if some or all of the regionals/corridor trains were timed for lower speeds. At the time of the introduction of the AEM-7 locos, some services would still have been in the hands of GG1s and E60s, which were not capable or cleared for 125mph (and the last E60 wasn't retired from Amtrak until 2003).

 

[eldomtom2]

The US does not appear to have quite the same "protect people from their own stupidity" attitude for railways as we do.

They also have much higher fatality rates for both the general public and rail workers.

 

[Bluejays]

Nice to see the extension open, used brightline a few years ago and found it great. Comfy trains, great stations. Hopefully the new stations are as nice as the original ones. The routing of the line seemed mired in numerous battles/discussions with local politicians in different areas. A good result to get it sorted and open.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

The routing of the line seemed mired in numerous battles/discussions with local politicians in different areas.

That unfortunately is more often than not true of any rail project here in the US which is why we can't have nice things here.

 

[Bluejays]

That unfortunately is more often than not true of any rail project here in the US which is why we can't have nice things here.

That's a shame, sad to see good projects delayed by petty politics. From what I could see a lot of the objections were along the lines of ' we don't want you in our town, you're dangerous. Unless of course you want to build a station here, in which case you're welcome'.

 

[AdamWW]

That's a shame, sad to see good projects delayed by petty politics. From what I could see a lot of the objections were along the lines of ' we don't want you in our town, you're dangerous. Unless of course you want to build a station here, in which case you're welcome'.

Well I think they have a point - it is dangerous, by UK standards anyway.

 

[Bluejays]

Well I think they have a point - it is dangerous, by UK standards anyway.

Legitimate concerns about safety from towns along the route are fair. I do think it's slightly dodgy for town councils to be willing to drop those complaints in return for brightline building a station there. Seemed to be a lot of that going on

 

[Taunton]

I think grade crossings over 110mph would need something like a row of very hefty rising bollards or a rising metal wall, sufficient to stop a large truck from getting on the tracks.

I can't think of anywhere I've seen such a design of level crossing.

These were installed on the St Petersburg to Helsinki line when the high speed Allegro service started. Known locally as "tank traps", they rise, sharp end facing the traffic, just inside the crossing barriers. First the (full) barriers come down, then the traps rise in the road, then the signals clear.

There's a similar arrangement at the entrance to Downing Street.

 

[Bald Rick]

There's a similar arrangement at the entrance to Downing Street.

And at the entrance to most major signalling centres in this country.

They have been phenomenally successful, there hasn’t been a single successful attack by tank since installation!

 

[AdamWW]

And at the entrance to most major signalling centres in this country.

They have been phenomenally successful, there hasn’t been a single successful attack by tank since installation!

I hear they keep the tigers off the lines too.

 

[najaB]

So do I but Universal seem to be doing their best to scupper it and Disney have lost interest.

Any idea why? Surely anything that makes it easier for people to get there is going to be good for business?

 

[island]

Any idea why? Surely anything that makes it easier for people to get there is going to be good for business?

It loses them parking revenue (Universal charge up to $60 a day for this) and means people have to leave in accordance with train timetables rather than staying longer and spending more.

 

[najaB]

It loses them parking revenue (Universal charge up to $60 a day for this) and means people have to leave in accordance with train timetables rather than staying longer and spending more.

Knowing the United Statesian mindset, I can't see a major modal switch from car to train. And a day ticket for Universal is around $100 so even a few additional customers would make up for the loss of parking fees. The timetable issue is a little more tricky - perhaps they could sponsor a later departure southbound.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Any idea why? Surely anything that makes it easier for people to get there is going to be good for business?

Disney were warmer about when it was going to be a station exclusive for them; after Universal persuaded local politicians to their favoured Station location, they have lost interest.

 

[island]

Knowing the United Statesian mindset, I can't see a major modal switch from car to train.

That's going to be the only material source of passengers. There is not a huge, or even small, market of non-car owners waiting to jump on a train to Orlando.

 

[eldomtom2]

Disney were warmer about when it was going to be a station exclusive for them; after Universal persuaded local politicians to their favoured Station location, they have lost interest.

I believe it was less about station location per se and more about the route - Brightline decided to go for a route far less convenient to Disneyworld.

 

[najaB]

That's going to be the only material source of passengers. There is not a huge, or even small, market of non-car owners waiting to jump on a train to Orlando.

I can see a lot of appeal to tourists who are planning to stay at one of the Disney resorts: flyiin to Miami and get the train to Disney - much like the Eurostar to Disneyland Paris. Often flights to Miami are cheaper than to Orlando and they can make it a two-city vacation with a day or two in Miami.

 

[Meerkat]

These were installed on the St Petersburg to Helsinki line when the high speed Allegro service started. Known locally as "tank traps", they rise, sharp end facing the traffic, just inside the crossing barriers. First the (full) barriers come down, then the traps rise in the road, then the signals clear.

There's a similar arrangement at the entrance to Downing Street.

Plenty of examples of vehicles driving into them on those Russian dashcam videos (which are bloody scary - unsurprisingly in a country of drunks and snow the driving standard is appalling!)

 

[jon81uk]

I believe it was less about station location per se and more about the route - Brightline decided to go for a route far less convenient to Disneyworld.

Yep and the current bus network on Disney isn't designed for luggage so they would still need a method to get people and their bags from the station to hotels. So might as well just get the coach/bus all the way from the airport to the hotel rather than train then bus/taxi.

Its not like Paris where all the hotels are under 20 minutes walk from the station at Disneyland.

 

[AdamWW]

Yep and the current bus network on Disney isn't designed for luggage so they would still need a method to get people and their bags from the station to hotels. So might as well just get the coach/bus all the way from the airport to the hotel rather than train then bus/taxi.

If they wanted I'm sure they could set up a suitable operation to bus people from their station to the hotels.

But since they already have that at the airport and that's where the trains go, perhaps there wouldn't be a lot of point to it.

 

[jon81uk]

If they wanted I'm sure they could set up a suitable operation to bus people from their station to the hotels.

But since they already have that at the airport and that's where the trains go, perhaps there wouldn't be a lot of point to it.

I think thats the thing, Disney didn't really want to and didn't see the point.

 

[island]

I can see a lot of appeal to tourists who are planning to stay at one of the Disney resorts: flyiin to Miami and get the train to Disney - much like the Eurostar to Disneyland Paris. Often flights to Miami are cheaper than to Orlando and they can make it a two-city vacation with a day or two in Miami.

Sorry, but no. Americans as a rule don’t ride the train. Domestic tourists will fly to Orlando and hire a car. International tourists travelling to Disney are predominantly your families of 4 and the last thing they want to do is fly hundreds of miles out of the way to then get the subway to the city centre – Brightline doesn’t serve Miami airport – then a train to Orlando airport where they’ll need to get a cab to their resort, a total of 4 hours or so after a long haul flight when it feels like midnight at home. Just isn’t going to happen.

 

[AdamWW]

Sorry, but no. Americans as a rule don’t ride the train.

I have assumed that Brightline is doing OK from Americans who do.

Or is it just full of tourists all the time?

 

[najaB]

Domestic tourists will fly to Orlando and hire a car. International tourists travelling to Disney are predominantly your families of 4 and the last thing they want to do is fly hundreds of miles out of the way to then get the subway to the city centre – Brightline doesn’t serve Miami airport…

Which is where the two-city holiday starts to make sense.

…then a train to Orlando airport where they’ll need to get a cab to their resort, a total of 4 hours or so after a long haul flight when it feels like midnight at home.

Well now, yes. However, if the line had continued on to somewhere closer to International Drive things would be different.