CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Dan G]

They've certainly have their issues. Coupling/uncoupling, toilets, ASDO are the most common issues but there were a couple of more unusual ones yesterday, Gear Box and transmission issues on a couple of units.

The 3 car units seem especially unreliable, for example today of the 5 sets only 1 is in service plus one in the south on training. There seems more issues on them not failures too, maybe its just theyre 50% bigger there's more to go wrong!

Current standings seem to be:
Non-ERTMS 2 car 27/30 accepted (005,024,050 outstanding)
ERTMS 2 car 0/21 accepted
(003, 022,023,025-041 outstanding)
Standard only 3 car 5/12 Accepted (102,103,105-109 outstanding)
1st class 3 car 0/14 accepted
(113-126 outstanding)

In total 32 of the 77 units are accepted for service with 45 still to go.

2 car sets currently have 23 diagrams, 19 in service, 3 training and 1 rescue and recovery in the South.

3 car sets on paper have 4 diagrams all In service.

Great post, thank you very much

 

[33017]

They've certainly have their issues. Coupling/uncoupling, toilets, ASDO are the most common issues but there were a couple of more unusual ones yesterday, Gear Box and transmission issues on a couple of units.

The 3 car units seem especially unreliable, for example today of the 5 sets only 1 is in service plus one in the south on training. There seems more issues on them not failures too, maybe its just theyre 50% bigger there's more to go wrong!

Current standings seem to be:
Non-ERTMS 2 car 27/30 accepted (005,024,050 outstanding)
ERTMS 2 car 0/21 accepted
(003, 022,023,025-041 outstanding)
Standard only 3 car 5/12 Accepted (102,103,105-109 outstanding)
1st class 3 car 0/14 accepted
(113-126 outstanding)

In total 32 of the 77 units are accepted for service with 45 still to go.

2 car sets currently have 23 diagrams, 19 in service, 3 training and 1 rescue and recovery in the South.

3 car sets on paper have 4 diagrams all In service.

024 is an ERTMS set.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

024 is an ERTMS set.

024's ETCS equipment is in 003, so they could get testing underway earlier. Whether it is to be swapped back or not, or will gain it in the future, I don't know.

 

[sd0733]

024 is an ERTMS set.

I was told that the equipment from that was put into 003, in all honesty its someone who knows their stuff who said and 024 has been out on test which none of the other ERTMS ones seem to so never questioned it.

On the flip side having it as a ERTMS still plus 003 does make the 21 sets!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2023 ==

One query is I make that 20 outstanding ERTMS or is there another unit number missing from your list ?.

See above!

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197117 left Donnington RFT today having failed to collect a 197 on yesterday's turn. 66506 did the honours today on 6Q97 from Donnington to Crewe Carriage Sidings L&NWR Site.

 

[RailWonderer]

I rode a 197 on Thursday for the 10 minute ride from Nantwich to Crewe. Was nice to see so many people commenting on the new train and the space. Was offered snacks or a drink which was a nice surprise.

Getting on the Avanti Voyager which had come from Holyhead after was a big downgrade. No working WiFi, no USB sockets, dark and dingy and cramped.

Funny how you call them dingy and cramped, many think the 197s and 195s are too bright! You also get catering on 150s on the Manchester South Wales but they normally get so rammed it stays at the end of the end coach.

 

[robrymond]

Funny how you call them dingy and cramped, many think the 197s and 195s are too bright! You also get catering on 150s on the Manchester South Wales but they normally get so rammed it stays at the end of the end coach.

I guess I've never been offered food or a drink before on any of the other units. Not that I travel all that often by train.

 

[childwallblues]

I was awaiting my 1526 train home at Crewe yesterday when the 1430 MAN-CDF arrived with 153913 and 153333.

 

[craigybagel]

Funny how you call them dingy and cramped, many think the 197s and 195s are too bright! You also get catering on 150s on the Manchester South Wales but they normally get so rammed it stays at the end of the end coach.

Since the PRM toilet was installed, it's impossible for a trolley to get all the way through a 150.

 

[Peter Sarf]

My bold.

I rode a 197 on Thursday for the 10 minute ride from Nantwich to Crewe. Was nice to see so many people commenting on the new train and the space. Was offered snacks or a drink which was a nice surprise.

Getting on the Avanti Voyager which had come from Holyhead after was a big downgrade. No working WiFi, no USB sockets, dark and dingy and cramped.

Funny how you call them dingy and cramped, many think the 197s and 195s are too bright! You also get catering on 150s on the Manchester South Wales but they normally get so rammed it stays at the end of the end coach.

I think @robrymond was referring to the Voyager not the 197 ?.

 

[robrymond]

My bold.

I think @robrymond was referring to the Voyager not the 197 ?.

I was indeed referring to the horrible Voyager after my ten minute ride on the 197.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

According to a post on another forum, 197105 has now been accepted.

I understand that 197045 has also been accepted for a while, does anyone know if its worked passenger services yet? Thanks.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197117 left Donnington RFT yesterday having failed to collect a 197 on yesterday's turn. 66506 did the honours today on 6Q97 from Donnington to Crewe

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

According to a post on another forum, 197105 has now been accepted.

I understand that 197045 has also been accepted for a while, does anyone know if its worked passenger services yet? Thanks.

I don’t believe so as I’ve been checking every day. It’s the only accepted /0 I haven’t been on.

 

[sd0733]

According to a post on another forum, 197105 has now been accepted.

I understand that 197045 has also been accepted for a while, does anyone know if its worked passenger services yet? Thanks.

045 is still shown as at Chester and hasn't been in service.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

045 is still shown as at Chester and hasn't been in service.

Correct, saw it this morning on depot along with 197051.

 

[Russel]

024's ETCS equipment is in 003, so they could get testing underway earlier. Whether it is to be swapped back or not, or will gain it in the future, I don't know.

Interesting to read that the ETCS equipment can be moved between sets, if I understand your post correctly, given on the 158s it had to be installed in a large cabinet in the passenger saloon?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Interesting to read that the ETCS equipment can be moved between sets, if I understand your post correctly, given on the 158s it had to be installed in a large cabinet in the passenger saloon?

The 197s are built ETCS-ready, so it is easier to install.

 

[childwallblues]

Since the PRM toilet was installed, it's impossible for a trolley to get all the way through a 150.

Trolleys off Chester Depot can turn up on any train when the train that it is booked for is cancelled. I have been on a 150 from Shotton to Llandudno Junction which had a PRM toilet and a trolley service occasionally turns up ion a Lime Street service.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Trolleys off Chester Depot can turn up on any train when the train that it is booked for is cancelled. I have been on a 150 from Shotton to Llandudno Junction which had a PRM toilet and a trolley service occasionally turns up ion a Lime Street service.

Yes but what Craigy is saying, is that a trolley cannot go through the gangway between the two coaches on a 150 since the PRM toilet was installed, it doesn't fit.

 

[Jez]

Yes but what Craigy is saying, is that a trolley cannot go through the gangway between the two coaches on a 150 since the PRM toilet was installed, it doesn't fit.

Which just proves the point that 150s are totally unsuitable for these long distance routes!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2023 ==

Back to the 197s and do we know the diagrams for the Manchester to Swansea route tomorrow that are 197s from tomorrow assuming the the timetable is going back to usual tomorrow on completion of the engineering works?

 

[craigybagel]

The 197s are built ETCS-ready, so it is easier to install.

The lack of ERTMS actually shows up as a fault on the TMS screen on every non ERTMS fitted unit!

Trolleys off Chester Depot can turn up on any train when the train that it is booked for is cancelled. I have been on a 150 from Shotton to Llandudno Junction which had a PRM toilet and a trolley service occasionally turns up ion a Lime Street service.

Yes but what Craigy is saying, is that a trolley cannot go through the gangway between the two coaches on a 150 since the PRM toilet was installed, it doesn't fit.

Exactly this. You can have a trolley service on a 150, but since the PRM mods it now has to be a static service as they can't get past the toilet.

 

[sd0733]

Back to the 197s and do we know the diagrams for the Manchester to Swansea route tomorrow that are 197s from tomorrow assuming the the timetable is going back to usual tomorrow on completion of the engineering works?

The Swansea diagrams are now:

2 car
07:45 Cardiff to Swansea
08:54 Swansea to Manchester
13:30 Manchester to Cardiff

4 car
13:48 Cardiff to Swansea
14:49 Swansea to Manchester
Splits to form19:30/20:30 Manchester to Cardiff

2 car
13:12 Cardiff to Swansea
15:05 Swansea to Chester

4 car
05:39 Cardiff to Manchester
09:30 Manchester to Swansea
14:00 Swansea to Cardiff
15:49 Cardiff to Swansea
16:53 Swansea to Manchester
Splits to form
21:30/22:32 Manchester to Shrewsbury

 

[Jez]

The lack of ERTMS actually shows up as a fault on the TMS screen on every non ERTMS fitted unit!



Exactly this. You can have a trolley service on a 150, but since the PRM mods it now has to be a static service as they can't get past the toilet.

The whole point of the trolley is to provide at seat catering. So 150 really isnt suitable for such long distance routes on a regular basis.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2023 ==

The Swansea diagrams are now:

2 car
07:45 Cardiff to Swansea
08:54 Swansea to Manchester
13:30 Manchester to Cardiff

4 car
13:48 Cardiff to Swansea
14:49 Swansea to Manchester
Splits to form19:30/20:30 Manchester to Cardiff

2 car
13:12 Cardiff to Swansea
15:05 Swansea to Chester

4 car
05:39 Cardiff to Manchester
09:30 Manchester to Swansea
14:00 Swansea to Cardiff
15:49 Cardiff to Swansea
16:53 Swansea to Manchester
Splits to form
21:30/22:32 Manchester to Shrewsbury

Many thanks for posting these. Good to see there are quite a few 197s booked for Swansea services.

 

[Techniquest]

Agreed, that was some very useful information, especially as I may be in Swansea tomorrow

 

[sd0733]

Agreed, that was some very useful information, especially as I may be in Swansea tomorrow

I would however err on the side of caution! One diagram is already showing as covered by the Northern 150. Certainly would check on RTT in the morning!!
Seems to be a lot of units substituting for 197s at the moment.

 

[Techniquest]

I would however err on the side of caution! One diagram is already showing as covered by the Northern 150. Certainly would check on RTT in the morning!!
Seems to be a lot of units substituting for 197s at the moment.

Thanks for the gen, and yes I noticed that the 0756 from Hereford to Holyhead currently has a 197 allocation, 197042, from Chester. Which suggests a change will be required, and I have to confess that I'm mighty curious as to what will do the 0756. So much so I may set an alarm and get up early to have a look!

If I do Swansea, it's not primarily for the 197s, don't worry. No, that trip would be something completely different. It is nice to know what to expect as booked for the class though.

I will absolutely be having a look at RTT in the morning and making a judgement based on that

 

[sd0733]

Thanks for the gen, and yes I noticed that the 0756 from Hereford to Holyhead currently has a 197 allocation, 197042, from Chester. Which suggests a change will be required, and I have to confess that I'm mighty curious as to what will do the 0756. So much so I may set an alarm and get up early to have a look!

If I do Swansea, it's not primarily for the 197s, don't worry. No, that trip would be something completely different. It is nice to know what to expect as booked for the class though.

I will absolutely be having a look at RTT in the morning and making a judgement based on that

That one is a 197 diagram. Looks to add an extra one at Chester on the way and is booked a 4 car Chester to Holyhead and then back to Cardiff that's why 042 showing from there as its already allocated to that diagram..

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well I’m pleased to say at long last 197111 is showing its face in Cardiff tomorrow, so that’s definitely a plan - and then 101 will be the only gettable 197 left for me!

 

[sd0733]

Well I’m pleased to say at long last 197111 is showing its face in Cardiff tomorrow, so that’s definitely a plan - and then 101 will be the only gettable 197 left for me!

On a booked 3 car Diagram too so it's got a decent chance of sticking to the diagram.