Sandwich level crossing incident (26/09)

[telstarbox]

Local news but apparently:

This was the alarming moment a train went through a level crossing with the barriers still up.

A car driver in Sandwich, at first not realising the Southeastern service was coming, had to slam on his brakes while on the track and reverse to avoid being struck, say witnesses.

Horrific close shave as train goes through level crossing with barriers up

A car driver had to reverse off a level crossing when a train came through while the road barriers were up.

www.kentonline.co.uk

 

[skyhigh]

A Network Rail spokesperson said: “A train passed a signal at danger and came to a stop over Sandwich level crossing on Tuesday.

So on first glance it seems the crossing was working correctly (i.e. the signal hadn't cleared with the barriers raised) and the issue was with the train not stopping.

Why the train didn't stop is a completely different question and I can think of several reasons why that might have been the case.

 

[LowLevel]

So on first glance it seems the crossing was working correctly (i.e. the signal hadn't cleared with the barriers raised) and the issue was with the train not stopping.

Why the train didn't stop is a completely different question and I can think of several reasons why that might have been the case.

The train failed to stop at the red signal protecting the crossing and when it did so the crossing functioned as designed - IE when the train struck the treadle provided the red road lights immediately activated.

 

[joystick]

Its not protecting the crossing very well if the train still reached it !

 

[172007]

Its not protecting the crossing very well if the train still reached it !

No different to flimsy barriers or even half barriers and some red flashing lights looking at it from a highways perspective.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So it appears that there were minimal delays to services following this incident and no doubt, there will be a full and thorough investigation

Need we say any more?

 

[Spartacus]

Its not protecting the crossing very well if the train still reached it !

In an ideal world the treadles would be far enough away, but then the barriers end up down for longer under normal working, which causes complaints from users and increases the risk of misuse, either through people running the reds or people, usually on foot, forcing themselves through the barriers.

 

[Towers]

So it appears that there were minimal delays to services following this incident and no doubt, there will be a full and thorough investigation

Need we say any more?

I imagine it’s entirely possible that there may be some interest from RAIB if it was a very near miss?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So it appears that there were minimal delays to services following this incident and no doubt, there will be a full and thorough investigation

Need we say any more?

Newsworthy though in that it's normally always the road vehicle that shouldn't have been on the level crossing.

 

[66701GBRF]

Should be noted that level crossings are generally not considered an obstruction for signal overlap purposes and the signal in this particular incident is on a curve and is not fitted with TPWS.

 

[Sweetjesus]

I was under the assumption that level crossings relied on track circuits to determine whether train is coming or not rather than signal.

 

[father_jack]

Should be noted that level crossings are generally not considered an obstruction for signal overlap purposes and the signal in this particular incident is on a curve and is not fitted with TPWS.

(Speculation/possiblilty) ......and it wouldn't be the first train to have gone for a slide already this autumn........

 

[Starmill]

So it appears that there were minimal delays to services following this incident and no doubt, there will be a full and thorough investigation

Need we say any more?

A near miss of this nature will always make the local news, better to have it do so in an informed way. I would imagine a collision was close enough here for it to be investigated further.

 

[Dieseldriver]

I was under the assumption that level crossings relied on track circuits to determine whether train is coming or not rather than signal.

Depends on the type of crossing

 

[Lurcheroo]

Depends on the type of crossing

From the photo it looks like it might be a CCTV crossing.

So for those who don’t know what that is, there is a set of CCTV cameras overlooking the crossing. By default the crossing is open and there are signals set to red which will bring the train to a stop prior to the crossing. As a train approaches the signaller will get an alert and can see the live video feed from the crossing and will activate the barriers and then once the barriers are down, acknowledge that the crossing is clear. Once this is done the route can be set for the train to go across the crossing and the signal is cleared to a proceed aspect.
All of this is usually done whilst the train is on the move and doesn’t require the train to come to a stop.

I’m not a signaller but a guard who works a line with a few CCTV crossings and have been in the signal box and seen how they operate. And of course been on a few services that have come to a stand as the signaller has Not activated the crossing.

If this is a CCTV crossing, it certainly could explain how it’s passed a signal at danger to go through a crossing with the barriers up.

Why the train went through the red could be completely out of the drivers hands but the cause will be determined through an investigation.

someone’s mentioned it already, it could certainly be the drivers tried to bring the trains speed down, the wheels have locked up and it’s gone for a slide so they’ve put it into emergency. It’s stopped on the crossing by the looks of it from the article so there’s been a fair effort well before the crossing to get it stopped I would say.

 

[Annetts key]

This crossing is definitely a manually controlled (full) barrier crossing (MCB) remotely monitored by CCTV type crossing (normally only referenced as a CCTV crossing).

As Lurcheroo describes, the crossing is normally open to road users. When the signaller has a train that requires to use the line through the crossing, when the train is approaching (and this could be more than a couple of miles away), the signaller will operate the control that brings the CCTV camera picture up on the monitor, they check that there is no obstruction, then operate the close crossing sequence control. The amber lights will illuminate, then the alternating flashing red lights, then the ‘leading’ ‘entry’ barriers, then the ‘exit’ barriers. The signaller then checks the crossing is clear, then operates the ‘crossing clear’ button. Only now can the protecting signal(s) be cleared. Also note that on most crossings, all four barriers have to be electrically proved down, and a minimum number of red lights have to be working (lighting up) for the circuitry to allow the protecting signal to clear to a proceed aspect.

If the train is not due to pass over the crossing, obviously none of the above happens, as the train driver is expected to stop their train at or short of the protecting signal.

With most crossings of this type, if a train passes the protecting signal, regardless of it’s state, the train detection system (track circuit, axle counter, treadle) will automatically cause the alternating flashing red lights to come on. The barriers will not automatically lower.

If the protecting signal is close to the crossing, this automatic activation of the red road lights will not give very much warning time before the train appears on the crossing, unless the train is moving slowly.

At any time, the signaller can start the barrier lower sequence to lower the barriers.

Unless otherwise specified, it’s not normally a requirement for TPWS to be provided at a signal that protects a level crossing which is on plain line.

 

[Signal_Box]

I was under the assumption that level crossings relied on track circuits to determine whether train is coming or not rather than signal.

Depends on the type of crossing, MCB (manually controlled) do not, AHB (automatic half barrier) do.

When you authorise a train to pass the protecting signal for a level crossing (not necessarily protecting the crossing, more the section the signal is protecting contains a crossing), the driver is instructed to proceed at caution (speed not defined in the rule book) stop at the crossing then only proceed over if safe and clear to do so.

There are requirements during darkness and the type of train which make it not so clear but depending on crossing type.

This appears to be a barrier failure, Road warning lights working it seems. So the above example would probably be the case in my experience.

The train “not stopping” or not SEEN to have stopped prior by the motorist.

If the driver had carried out their duties correctly approached the crossing then the numpty car driver drive onto the crossing they’re going to dump the brake quick sharpe!

No doubt somebody will alone soon to disclose control log info as usual.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2023 ==

(Speculation/possiblilty) ......and it wouldn't be the first train to have gone for a slide already this autumn........

It would have been a very quick reaction to get those crossing going through its closing process before the train got there if it had been a SPAD!

Easy to speculate when your not at the sharpe end hey….

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2023 ==

From the photo it looks like it might be a CCTV crossing.

So for those who don’t know what that is, there is a set of CCTV cameras overlooking the crossing. By default the crossing is open and there are signals set to red which will bring the train to a stop prior to the crossing. As a train approaches the signaller will get an alert and can see the live video feed from the crossing and will activate the barriers and then once the barriers are down, acknowledge that the crossing is clear. Once this is done the route can be set for the train to go across the crossing and the signal is cleared to a proceed aspect.
All of this is usually done whilst the train is on the move and doesn’t require the train to come to a stop.

I’m not a signaller but a guard who works a line with a few CCTV crossings and have been in the signal box and seen how they operate. And of course been on a few services that have come to a stand as the signaller has Not activated the crossing.

If this is a CCTV crossing, it certainly could explain how it’s passed a signal at danger to go through a crossing with the barriers up.

Why the train went through the red could be completely out of the drivers hands but the cause will be determined through an investigation.

someone’s mentioned it already, it could certainly be the drivers tried to bring the trains speed down, the wheels have locked up and it’s gone for a slide so they’ve put it into emergency. It’s stopped on the crossing by the looks of it from the article so there’s been a fair effort well before the crossing to get it stopped I would say.

Speculation! How do you know the driver had a SPAD ?
There are many reasons why this could of happened.

 

[Annetts key]

Speculation! How do you know the driver had a SPAD ?
There are many reasons why this could of happened.

A Network Rail spokesperson said: “A train passed a signal at danger and came to a stop over Sandwich level crossing on Tuesday.

“We are now working closely with Southeastern to conduct a full investigation.”

Scott Brightwell, Southeastern’s operations and safety director said: "Safety is always our first consideration and a joint investigation has been started by Southeastern and Network Rail to determine the cause of this incident.

“We can also confirm that as it unfolded the driver activated the train’s emergency brake and before it entered the level crossing, safety equipment activated, alerting pedestrians and road users with lights and sirens”.

 

[Signal_Box]

It would appear from actually reading the article Network Rail have said the train passed the protecting signal at Red which started the crossings fail safe mode.

My thoughts go out to the driver who will no doubt be in a horrible position right now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2023 ==

See my next comment…..

I’m old enough, and definitely ugly enough to say I was wrong, and I apologise.

I really should read the article prior to comment.

 

[class90021]

Wait there was a barrier failure?

 

[Purple Train]

Wait there was a barrier failure?

No.

According to the press release quoted in post #18, the train involved passed the protecting signal at danger. The barriers worked correctly.

 

[class90021]

No.

According to the press release quoted in post #18, the train involved passed the protecting signal at danger. The barriers worked correctly.

ahh i see thanks for mentioning.

 

[Purple Train]

ahh i see thanks for mentioning.

No worries.

 

[66701GBRF]

With most crossings of this type, if a train passes the protecting signal, regardless of it’s state, the train detection system (track circuit, axle counter, treadle) will automatically cause the alternating flashing red lights to come on. The barriers will not automatically lower.

If the protecting signal is close to the crossing, this automatic activation of the red road lights will not give very much warning time before the train appears on the crossing, unless the train is moving slowly.

There was zero red light warning in this case as it was only the yellow that was showing when the second coach was still on the crossing.

 

[Towers]

There was zero red light warning in this case as it was only the yellow that was showing when the second coach was still on the crossing.

Are certain of that? That would place the signal and any associated trigger equipment very close indeed to the crossing!

 

[74A]

Are certain of that? That would place the signal and any associated trigger equipment very close indeed to the crossing!

Many crossing have signals directly in front of the crossing. And not all crossing have trigger equipment. Many are controlled by the signaller clearing the signal.

 

[Annetts key]

The protecting signal can be very close to the crossing. As I said earlier, unless the train is moving slowly, there will be very little warning.

 

[dakta]

"at first not realising the Southeastern service was coming, had to slam on his brakes while on the track and reverse to avoid being struck"


Not knocking the car driver and nothing more than a musing haven glanced at it and there would have been a lot of gut reaction in there - but if you find yourself already on a crossing and a trains coming and you already have some inertia in a direction - I'd have thought get your foot down

just seems like quite a lot to do otherwise (brake, come to a halt, find reverse, get moving sufficiently to get out of the way). It's a lot to do when the rails are four foot apart

 

[Annetts key]

Here’s an example of how close the signal can be:

Photo taken from Google street view. Photo shows the rear of a colour light railway signal that is not very far away from the level crossing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2023 ==

"at first not realising the Southeastern service was coming, had to slam on his brakes while on the track and reverse to avoid being struck"


Not knocking the car driver and nothing more than a musing haven glanced at it and there would have been a lot of gut reaction in there - but if you find yourself already on a crossing and a trains coming and you already have some inertia in a direction - I'd have thought get your foot down

just seems like quite a lot to do otherwise (brake, come to a halt, find reverse, get moving sufficiently to get out of the way). It's a lot to do when the rails are four foot apart

I agree. Once a road vehicle has started moving across a level crossing, if the exit is clear, they should continue to the other side as this is the quickest way to get clear of the crossing. The other problem with reversing, apart from it taking longer to do, is what happens if another road vehicle is close behind?

However, I have witnessed road vehicle drivers slamming on the brakes and stopping after the stop line, having reacted too slowly to the red lights, then reversing back behind the stop line!

 

[dakta]

Yeah I think a lot of gut reaction is in there and the dread factor, but it did make me wonder - if there was no warning, then I'd imagine for a lot of cars, you'd be running at a reduced speed but probably significantly more than a walking pace (would 20 in a 30 be a reasonable example?) so it seemed rather a lot going on.

It just made me wonder, as if you're in the danger zone and think suddenly oh no i need to get off (i.e you suddenly realise theres danger) if you manage to stop and still be in the danger zone you can't have really been going at any speed at all.

It doesn't change things but made me ponder it, in my head it doesn't really stack