Bought a ticket with an expired railcard and then changed address

[barbie2023]

Hello
i need help please

Last year i bought a ticket with an expired railcard. i gave my address but i left that address a few weeks later so i believe the fine was sent to that address.

I recently got my dbs and saw the fine case has been taken to the Magistrates court. However, i didn’t know about this fine.

Does anyone know what i can do to reverse this and pay the fine ?

Every help counts. thanks

 

[island]

If you had no knowledge of a case being taken to the Magistrates Court you may file a statutory declaration of ignorance of proceedings with the court or via a solicitor.

This will reset matters back to the start of the case and delete your DBS entry, and enable you to plead guilty or not guilty, and maybe even to attempt to obtain an out of court settlement from the train company you used.

Note that you do not have the option to “pay the fine” and not have the offence appear on your DBS.

Note also that if you do end up pleading guilty or are found guilty after a trial, it will go back on your DBS for a year starting from the date of conviction, after which it’ll no longer appear on basic DBS checks. If it’s already been some time since the conviction and you are guilty of the offence you were charged with, a statutory declaration might not be the best course of action.

 

[barbie2023]

Thanks!

On my dbs check. it says April 2023 so i believe that was when the rail company handed it over to the court

 

[Danberto]

As island states you can apply for a 'statutory declaration' (SD) to get the conviction quashed. Note - this does not make the matter with the railcard go away, it simply moves the entire process back to the pre-court stage. Below is the way we would expect the sequence of events to go. I have called each part of the process a 'stage', this is not official terminology but I have used it hopefully to make the matter clearer.

Stage 1 You are reported for prosecution having been found not to be in possession of a valid railcard when making a journey.
Stage 2 The train operating company (TOC) writes to you concerning the matter. At this stage you can ask them to consider an 'out of court' settlement.
Stage 3 Upon receipt of your reply to Stage 2, the TOC will decide what action to take. This will most likely be an offer of a settlement or proceeding the matter to court.
Stage 4 Depending on the decision of the TOC in Stage 3 either an offer is made or the papers goes to court.
Stage 5 If the matter reaches court and you plead guilty or are found guilty there will be a criminal conviction plus any financial sanction the magistrate decides.

In the original case, as the TOC did not hear back from you, effectively the decision was made for them to progress the matter to Stage 5. By completing the SD you will be moved back to Stage 2. If you intend to ask for an out of court settlement it is important that you engage with the TOC. Posting a draft of your response in this thread will get suggestions from forum members as to anything they would add or take out.

All TOCs appear to prefer settling out of court rather than taking the matter to court so if your aim is to avoid a criminal conviction, etc. you should take this action.

 

[Haywain]

By completing the SD you will be moved back to Stage 2.

I would say it moves back to your Stage 4, as the matter is still within the court system, because that decision has already been made. It remains an option for the TOC to withdraw those proceedings but at this time there is no settlement offer on the table.

 

[barbie2023]

thankyou all. i will fill the SD forms. is it an online form or i have to post it ?

 

[Haywain]

thankyou all. i will fill the SD forms. is it an online form or i have to post it ?

It is usually recommended that you complete the SD at a solicitors office, as this 'buys time' before it is heard in court. Buying time in this way provides an opportunity to contact the train company and attempt to reach an out of court settlement. If you apply directly with the court you will be asked to enter a plea and if you plead guilty the case may be reheard immediately - there is no need for the train company to be represented.

 

[barbie2023]

is a solicitor free or inexpensive? i’m have no knowledge on things like this

 

[barbie2023]

Also i still don’t have those letters as i believe it was sent to my old address so to be honest i don’t even remember what railway company it was. I only now know about this case because i received my dbs check

 

[Haywain]

Also i still don’t have those letters as i believe it was sent to my old address so to be honest i don’t even remember what railway company it was. I only now know about this case because i received my dbs check

After the SD has been submitted you will receive a summons, and that will reveal who is prosecuting you. All the more reason to submit the SD through a solicitor and buy some time.

 

[island]

thankyou all. i will fill the SD forms. is it an online form or i have to post it ?

It can be typed or handwritten, but must be printed and signed physically by yourself in the presence of a solicitor, commissioner for oaths, or magistrate. You will then serve the paper form on the court that convicted you.

It is usually recommended that you complete the SD at a solicitors office, as this 'buys time' before it is heard in court. Buying time in this way provides an opportunity to contact the train company and attempt to reach an out of court settlement. If you apply directly with the court you will be asked to enter a plea and if you plead guilty the case may be reheard immediately - there is no need for the train company to be represented.

Process has changed and all statutory declarations seeking to reopen a SJPN case that proceeded without the defendant's knowledge must be accompanied by a response to the SJPN (a written plea), regardless of whether made at a court or with a solicitor. See section 16E (3) (d) of the Magistrates Court Act 1980 and www.gov.uk/appeal-magistrates-court-decision/if-you-did-not-know-about-your-case (indented paragraph below step 5).

 

[Haywain]

Process has changed and all statutory declarations seeking to reopen a SJPN case that proceeded without the defendant's knowledge must be accompanied by a response to the SJPN (a written plea), regardless of whether made at a court or with a solicitor. See section 16E (3) (d) of the Magistrates Court Act 1980 and www.gov.uk/appeal-magistrates-court-decision/if-you-did-not-know-about-your-case (indented paragraph below step 5).

That's useful to know, but can the OP know from the DBS check that is was dealt with through the SJPN? And how would they find out who prosecuted the matter. Presumably they can plead guilty with an option of a personal hearing?

 

[barbie2023]

Are solicitors expensive? and where can i find one

 

[Haywain]

Are solicitors expensive?

Not for an SD - there's a fixed fee of £10, I think. It's very cheap.

and where can i find one

Try the Law Society 'Find a Solicitor' page here.

 

[island]

That's useful to know, but can the OP know from the DBS check that is was dealt with through the SJPN?

No, but my starting assumption with railway prosecutions is they are SJPN.

And how would they find out who prosecuted the matter.

They could call or write to the magistrates court indicated on the DBS.

Presumably they can plead guilty with an option of a personal hearing?

Yes this is an option.

 

[Haywain]

No, but my starting assumption with railway prosecutions is they are SJPN.

They could call or write to the magistrates court indicated on the DBS.

Yes this is an option.

Overall, probably still best to go to a solicitor as they should be able to get that extra bit of advice.

 

[barbie2023]

i got on the phone with one of the companies and i was quoted 240p/hour

 

[Fawkes Cat]

i got on the phone with one of the companies and i was quoted 240p/hour

There may be other options. If you're a member of a union, then it may be worth getting in touch with them: it's possible (although fairly unlikely) that they'll be able to provide a free lawyer. It's rather more likely that they may have a deal with a law firm to allow cheap rates for union members. But if you don't ask you won't find out!

 

[Puffing Devil]

i got on the phone with one of the companies and i was quoted 240p/hour

That's if they do the work for you/provide advice. Take in your own declaration and the fee is fixed at £5 and £2 per copy.

 

[barbie2023]

so my next step is. print and fill the form, get a solicitor to sign that form too?

 

[barbie2023]

That's if they do the work for you/provide advice. Take in your own declaration and the fee is fixed at £5 and £2 per copy.

the work being filling the form myself ?

 

[30907]

the work being filling the form myself ?

Yes.
Bear in mind island's comment that you will (probably) need to plead guilty or not guilty at that point.

 

[barbie2023]

I have no info on the case and i have been trying to call my local magistrate and no one seems to be finding the case

 

[WesternLancer]

i got on the phone with one of the companies and i was quoted 240p/hour

You need to ask the solicitors firm clearly what you want them to do (and if they can not understand you, ask another firm!) - you want them to complete / witness / submit a Statutory Declaration (SD) form about a court case where you were found guilty without knowing anything about it.

At this stage you are not asking them for a price to represent you in respect of a fare evasion case (unless you also want to pay them for that at the sort of rate you mention) but by doing the SD form it buys you time to negotiate a settlement without needing a solicitor, with advice from this forum on how to do this with the best chance of a reasonable outcome for you.

Hope this helps

 

[barbie2023]

so do you submit a SD form and also ask the rail company for an out of court settlement? and if they agree what next ?

 

[reb0118]

so do you submit a SD form and also ask the rail company for an out of court settlement?

In the reverse order, as long as you still have time for the statutory declaration, firstly ascertain if the railway are willing to entertain an out of court settlement. If they are not then the statutory declaration may well be pointless as all it will do is result in a fresh conviction that will be recordable for another year.

 

[Hadders]

so do you submit a SD form and also ask the rail company for an out of court settlement? and if they agree what next ?

If the Southeastern agree to an out of court settlement then you will need to pay it in return Southeastern will withdraw the court case. It always advisable to check that they do withdraw the court case as errors can occur.

In the reverse order, as long as you still have time for the statutory declaration, firstly ascertain if the railway are willing to entertain an out of court settlement. If they are not then the statutory declaration may well be pointless as all it will do is result in a fresh conviction that will be recordable for another year.

I agree with this. You need to contact Southeastern Prosecutions Department as a matter of urgency, if you have not already done so. You only have 21 days from the time you first became aware of the issueto submit the Statutory Declaration.

If Southeastern won't agree to an out of court settlement and still insist on takingthe matter to court then there's little point on submitting the Statutory Declaration. You'd be found guilty at court and the criminal record would take effect from the new conviction date, the only possible reason I can think of for submitting a statutory declaration in these corcumstances if if you could try and get a smaller fine.

 

[barbie2023]

what do i say to the rail company ? please help

 

[WesternLancer]

what do i say to the rail company ? please help

I think (but others will add to this if I have it wrong) You explain that you were totally unaware of the court case, and would like to apologise for your actions ref not having correct ticket for travel, and ask if they would consider settling the matter without it needing to be dealt with at court.

You can have a go at writing what to say and posting it up here for people to check /suggest amends.

 

[Hadders]

I wouldn't normally suggest trying to contact a Prosecutions Office by telephone but given the urgency in respect of needing to get the Statutory Declaration submitted within 21 days I think this is worth a try.

Getting hold of tepehone numbers isn't easy and you're going ot have to do a fair but of leg work but that goes with the territory if you want to try and keep this out of court.

I would follow-up anything said on the phone in writing.