Could a Monthly Subscription ticket work in the UK?

[Bletchleyite]

I've always thought about a National Travelcard system which works for Local and Regional journeys with long distance services needing an extra supplement (Also the £100 contactless limit preventing them being in the system). Should have the ability to stitch regionals together for cheaper fares but you have to actually get off and tap a reader. Of course this would be slightly complicated but also abstracted away from the user directly.

Something like all local journeys £6, all regional journeys £15, Intercity journeys determined by the pairs.
Would need a database to define the local and regional journeys for each station with any not present being classified as intercity

Much as we can debate to the hilt if it's a good thing or not, I suspect the way we will indeed go is local journeys within contactless zones being mostly contactless (or an Oyster a like) at fixed fares with peak uplifts/off peak discounts on a fairly blunt basis, but long distance being Advance only.

 

[stuu]

Question is, can anything be done about it short of banning split ticketing (which would be undesirable and impossible to do anyway). One wonders if Dft actually knew the statistics, maybe we would see destinations like Liverpool or the WCML returned to the XC franchise map....

I believe it is down to who prices the tickets. Journeys to Bristol are priced by GWR, as are journeys as far as Worcester. Journeys across Bristol are priced by XC. Charging per mile is the only way to remove all those anomalies.

 

[Bartsimho]

Much as we can debate to the hilt if it's a good thing or not, I suspect the way we will indeed go is local journeys within contactless zones being mostly contactless (or an Oyster a like) at fixed fares with peak uplifts/off peak discounts on a fairly blunt basis, but long distance being Advance only.

I think you could fit regional under there as well. The prices would be under the contactless limit so would be technically feasible as well as being able to designate zones around each city with the same areas. Just need a nationwide survey of where people look towards

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think you could fit regional under there as well. The prices would be under the contactless limit so would be technically feasible as well as being able to designate zones around each city with the same areas. Just need a nationwide survey of where people look towards

Regional TOC areas probably mostly give you that, give or take outer fringes of Merseyrail. PTE/Council areas don't always, such as Ormskirk, Aughton Park and Town Green look towards Liverpool much more than Preston.

 

[Bartsimho]

Regional TOC areas probably mostly give you that, give or take outer fringes of Merseyrail. PTE/Council areas don't always, such as Ormskirk, Aughton Park and Town Green look towards Liverpool much more than Preston.

Just thinking about it in the South West I'd say you might have a setup like this.
Penzance Local is up to Truro, Regional is up to Exeter and beyond is intercity unless tapped at an intermediate station. So going Penzance-Taunton without getting off would be in the Intercity prices but if you went something like Penzance-Plymouth (Regional), Plymouth-Exeter (Local), Exeter-Taunton (Local) it would be £27 while the direct would still be towards the £48 you can find. It would be slower however which balances with the price

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just thinking about it in the South West I'd say you might have a setup like this.
Penzance Local is up to Truro, Regional is up to Exeter and beyond is intercity unless tapped at an intermediate station. So going Penzance-Taunton without getting off would be in the Intercity prices but if you went something like Penzance-Plymouth (Regional), Plymouth-Exeter (Local), Exeter-Taunton (Local) it would be £27 while the direct would still be towards the £48 you can find. It would be slower however which balances with the price

What would be really quite useful in Cornwall would be full integration; money could be saved by deduplication of bus and rail and connectivity could be better which is presently quite poor. With a semi-regulated bus service operated almost exclusively by two companies this might not be too hard to arrange, either.

 

[JonathanH]

What would be really quite useful in Cornwall would be full integration; money could be saved by deduplication of bus and rail and connectivity could be better which is presently quite poor.

What is deduplication of bus and rail? Is that where buses aren't allowed to operate direct from Penzance to Truro because there is a railway line, completely ignoring the fact that buses serve intermediate stops and the fact there is a through route is for passenger convenience?

 

[Bartsimho]

What is deduplication of bus and rail? Is that where buses aren't allowed to operate direct from Penzance to Truro because there is a railway line, completely ignoring the fact that buses serve intermediate stops and the fact there is a through route is for passenger convenience?

And the train is quicker between the big places so it's more time efficient while the bus offers greater connectivity

 

[JonathanH]

And the train is quicker between the big places so it's more time efficient while the bus offers greater connectivity

Yes. They are complimentary to each other, not in competition. There are very few places where a bus can be said to be first and foremost in direct competition with the railway now, because generally the railway has seen off express bus services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What is deduplication of bus and rail? Is that where buses aren't allowed to operate direct from Penzance to Truro because there is a railway line, completely ignoring the fact that buses serve intermediate stops and the fact there is a through route is for passenger convenience?

The key would be that maximum passenger convenience would be provided by integrating the two well, particularly in fares terms, so people aren't pressured to use that bus if rail would be better.

I don't know if I would withdraw that route or not without spending more time looking at what goes on on the ground and whether it is the best option or other connectional options would allow us to do more with less in the area.

 

[Bartsimho]

The key would be that maximum passenger convenience would be provided by integrating the two well, particularly in fares terms, so people aren't pressured to use that bus if rail would be better.

I don't know if I would withdraw that route or not without spending more time looking at what goes on on the ground and whether it is the best option or other connectional options would allow us to do more with less in the area.

It seems pretty integrated already with Transport for Cornwall being the body working with bus companies, GWR and the Council.
And the Ride Cornwall ticket as an integrated bus and train ticket which is £18 per day.

Transport for Cornwall | Buses, trains, public transport information

Welcome! We're working together to deliver a transport network that's simple to use, great quality and even better value for money. By coming together we're going to make Cornwall proud to take more and more green journeys.

www.transportforcornwall.co.uk

If this was then integrated into a larger nationwide system and used as a basis for it then it's brilliant.

As for taking passengers the Train runs Penzance to St Erth direct while the bus is Long Rock, Crowlas before St Erth and all the individual stops along the way.
Penzance to Hayle it's 20 mins by bus and 12 mins by train so the train is faster but the bus is more convenient for intermediate places

 

[yorksrob]

Regional TOC areas probably mostly give you that, give or take outer fringes of Merseyrail. PTE/Council areas don't always, such as Ormskirk, Aughton Park and Town Green look towards Liverpool much more than Preston.

They don't really give a consistently cheap offer there either though. Look at Carlisle to Leeds on Northern etc.

We're in danger of getting bogged down in discussion about the method of payment when this discussion should really be about cost.

 

[Bartsimho]

They don't really give a consistently cheap offer there either though. Look at Carlisle to Leeds on Northern etc.

We're in danger of getting bogged down in discussion about the method of payment when this discussion should really be about cost.

Yeah payment by contactless/travel card using existing barrier tech is completely feasible. It's working out regions and prices hence my local/regional/intercity split for pricing with the ability to leave a train, tap a card on an intermediate reader then get back on a train to allow splits but also accurate data on start and finish locations

 

[yorksrob]

Yeah payment by contactless/travel card using existing barrier tech is completely feasible. It's working out regions and prices hence my local/regional/intercity split for pricing with the ability to leave a train, tap a card on an intermediate reader then get back on a train to allow splits but also accurate data on start and finish locations

This is why, for simplicity a BahnCard type system is preferable. Pay a lump sum and get a proportion off everything.

Of course, they'll probably just do something else to put the price back up instead. The powers that be in this country just don't want a competitive, affordable passenger railway. That's what it all boils down to.