Travel irregularity settlement offer

[BecMc]

Good afternoon all from a stressed parent!
I purchased tickets for my son and his girlfriend for a Great Western Service in the beginning of August. They are both 16 years old. I bought adult tickets as I should from Barnstaple to Woking. They got stopped near Reading and they were on an earlier train (that had available seats) than was booked. They gave their details correctly and were allowed to continue their journey. I have now today rec’d a letter making an offer that I have to pay £128.90 just for my son. I’m assuming the other mother has had the same letter but she hasn’t been home yet. Has anyone any advice.
My issues are they were two kids travelling a long distance I’ve tried to do the right thing by buying them adult tickets as I should of they’ve got an earlier train so they weren’t hanging around at the train station making them vulnerable.

 

[Haywain]

If you can post a copy of the letter you've received, with personal details redacted, it will help us to give appropriate advice. However, I would advise against using the 'vulnerable' argument as they were clearly considered able to travel unaccompanied.

 

[BecMc]

If you can post a copy of the letter you've received, with personal details redacted, it will help us to give appropriate advice. However, I would advise against using the 'vulnerable' argument as they were clearly considered able to travel unaccompanied.

I did wonder that tbh

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum!

It looks as if you've been caught out by the restrictions on the cheapest tickets: 'Advance' tickets are only valid on the train booked. So if (as happened here) someone travels on a different train then they haven't got a valid ticket - it's just the same as if they turned up at the station and hopped on a train without bothering to buy a ticket at all.

Following this through, the railway has the right to prosecute people who travel without tickets. As your son and his girlfriend weren't on the right train, they were travelling without tickets, and could face prosecution.

In that light, GWR asking you (and presumably the girlfriend's mum) to pay £128.90 may not look so bad. It's still a lot, but paying it would mean that there wouldn't be a prosecution.

Before paying, you may want to explore what approach GWR takes to prosecuting under-18s. I haven't found anything about it in GWR's booklet (https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-...WR-Revenue-Protection-Policy-January-2023.pdf) but there may be other contributors to this forum who know better.

 

[Haywain]

I did wonder that tbh

Thanks for posting that. Could you also post details of the tickets that you had purchased? I suspect that they were for the route operated by South Western Railway and therefore held no validity at all on the Great Western Railway train. If this is the case it would explain the amount being sought by GWR.

 

[BecMc]

Thanks for posting that. Could you also post details of the tickets that you had purchased? I suspect that they were for the route operated by South Western Railway and therefore held no validity at all on the Great Western Railway train. If this is the case it would explain the amount being sought by GWR.

I bought tickets through Trainline and cannot at present find the details but have rung them and they do still hold details of my booking

 

[Haywain]

I bought tickets through Trainline and cannot at present find the details but have rung them and they do still hold details of my booking

OK, so just to explain, I think you had probably bought tickets which provided for travelling on a SWR service from Exeter to Woking directly and this would only be valid on that route. Travelling on an earlier train on the correct route would require an additional payment but not the full fare whereas travelling on a different route entirely, such as with Great Western and changing at Reading, would require a completely new ticket. It appears to me that GWR are seeking the payment for that new ticket, and are charging the full undiscounted fare (although seemingly undercharging by £5).

 

[BecMc]

OK, so just to explain, I think you had probably bought tickets which provided for travelling on a SWR service from Exeter to Woking directly and this would only be valid on that route. Travelling on an earlier train on the correct route would require an additional payment but not the full fare whereas travelling on a different route entirely, such as with Great Western and changing at Reading, would require a completely new ticket. It appears to me that GWR are seeking the payment for that new ticket, and are charging the full undiscounted fare (although seemingly undercharging by £5).

So does that mean I can’t dispute paying that amount? We rarely use the train for long journeys, I won’t be in a rush to do so again to be honest! I struggle with the fact that they are 16 expected to pay full adult fare yet as soon as something goes wrong they go for the parents! I appreciate they are trying to protect their revenue.

 

[MrJeeves]

I struggle with the fact that they are 16 expected to pay full adult fare yet as soon as something goes wrong they go for the parents! I appreciate they are trying to protect their revenue.

The railway have a 16-17 Saver railcard for £30/year which halves most ticket prices in England and Wales, which might be worthwhile if the young people might use the train again.

It frustrates me that people's experiences with trains are often so negative. I understand that, for the train company, if someone uses a ticket not valid on their service they may receive a much lower or no share of the money at all, so it makes sense that they would be asked to buy a new ticket, but even accompanying that with a friendly attitude and explaining clearly why this is the case and how to avoid it in future would go a long way.

 

[Haywain]

At the age of 16 they are considered adults in terms of fares but there are ways of reducing the fares - they are eligible to buy a 16-17 Saver which gives a 50% reduction on many fares, and are also eligible to buy a 16-25 Railcard which gives 34% reduction on many fares but is less useful at the moment. Unfortunately though, whilst cheap Advance tickets are available it is essential that they are used on the booked trains unless there is service disruption and the rail industry has allowed alternatives to be used.

GWR have contacted you because your son and his girlfriend are minors in the eyes of the law. In this case it might be worth politely writing to GWR asking if they would reduce the fare amount requested to the Super Off Peak Single amount of £63.00 but I think it is unlikely that you would have success with this.

 

[BecMc]

The railway have a 16-17 Saver railcard for £30/year which halves most ticket prices in England and Wales, which might be worthwhile if the young people might use the train again.

It frustrates me that people's experiences with trains are often so negative. I understand that, for the train company, if someone uses a ticket not valid on their service they may receive a much lower or no share of the money at all, so it makes sense that they would be asked to buy a new ticket, but even accompanying that with a friendly attitude and explaining clearly why this is the case and how to avoid it in future would go a long way.

I’ve just discovered the 16-17 railcard as he’s now started college and needs to use the train for that. I know that’s my view he’s never been spoken to before and although he told me about it this is the first I know about from the train company! Not very pleased tbh

 

[Haywain]

That’s a good idea to ask them that, I will try thank you

I would spell out that they are youngsters travelling alone (for the first time?) and using tickets bought for them without being fully aware of the restrictions applicable naively thinking they were free to use another train. As I said, it probably won't help but there's nothing to be lost in asking.

 

[John R]

It sounds to me as they took a train on the wrong route. Trains run directly from Exeter to Woking on the route to London Waterloo. A train to Reading is on the route to London Paddington, and goes nowhere near Woking. They would have had to change again twice, once at Reading, and then again at Basingstoke. So it really is a rather unusual route to take, and I can see why they were pulled up. It's not as simple as they took an earlier train on the correct route.

I suspect a lack of familiarity with the rail network meant that they just heard London and thought they could jump on without checking carefully that it was the correct train. An expensive mistake, and maybe a life skill learnt to be a little more careful in future.

 

[75A]

I suspect a lack of familiarity with the rail network meant that they just heard London and thought they could jump on without checking carefully that it was the correct train. An expensive mistake, and maybe a life skill learnt to be a little more careful in future.

Spot on.