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Frosted Glass on Station Footbridges
- Thread starter Sad Sprinter
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
I caught myself and a friend nudging sideways into each other and then I realised we were both aiming for exactly the same moving target coming towards us !. So we were twice as wide.
They also usually stop in front of me at a doorway, corner or other such bottleneck.
The corners at the tops of the ramps at East Croydon are a common stopping point for the oblivious ones. Alternatively they form a slow moving gaggle side by side walking up/down the ramp.
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This.
Iskra
Established Member
Is another reason, that this glass reduces loitering (possibly trainspotting too) on busy walkways, making them more congested/less efficient?
You're in a public place, you're not the police, leave people alone. You don't own the space any more than they do.
As for frosted glass, if it is for safety it can't surely be a massive effect. Bit of a shame to lose a view for that?
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Unfortunately I find life is slightly more complicated than that.
Me too.
zwk500
Veteran Member
There's no suggestion the poster you were replying to was trying to 'own the space' in any way. They were just commenting on the fact spatial awareness does appear to be generally declining, to the detriment of everybody as people are forced to stop or dodge out of the way.
On a side note, the single most annoying issue I had post covid was that people would form a perfect semicircle around the door that blocked any route off the platform yet were still waiting to allow people off the train, to go... somewhere? That was frustrating as you had to raise your voice in the early morning to give a gruff 'excuse me' before anybody would actually let you get out of their way.
On the balance of things, the views from railway footbridges are usually also fairly 'meh' nowadays with all the furniture around stations so the benefit of somebody not eating the platform having tripped on their way running down the stairs is probably better overall. Or somebody not being dragged under the train as they fling themselves against the door open button as the driver starts to pull away.
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
I feel like a new "best views from station footbridges" thread coming on...
zwk500
Veteran Member
I'm sure there will, there's many good views available up and down the country - of trains and of the general area - but in general you either need a lot of time or a particular fancy for trains to find the views of a junction station particularly interesting.
I am always slightly disheartened when I can no longer get my eyes above a parapet raised for electrification (I'm 183cm tall so my eyes just come under the 1.8m new parapet standard) and for footbridges where people aren't going to be rushing up and down for trains then it'd be nice if transparent Perspex or something could be used, but at stations the concern about people rushing up/down stairs and jumping at trains ready to depart is on balance probably worth slightly more than the view out of the windows. I have commuted at various times, and I've seen people push each other on stairs rushing for trains, hammer at already closed door buttons because they've missed it by a handful of seconds, or even harangue staff for having missed the train. I myself have found myself prompted to suddenly shuffle on because I've seen my train arriving into the platform - I don't pretend to be perfect.
However, if we're putting this effort into stopping late runners for trains, does this mean there will now be increased 'sterile' time for announcements as well? Because plenty of people are as triggered to rush by the PA as they are by seeing their train.
Deepgreen
Established Member
Almost certainly counter-productive on safety grounds - as others have alluded to, if you can't see outside you're more likely to run for your train, just in case. If you can see out, you can see you have time. Overall, I imagine more people will run, out of uncertainty, as a result. The railway seems to be home to a growing number of people dreaming this stuff up without proper quantification.
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zwk500
Veteran Member
Completely disagree - it doesn't take long hanging around a busy station to notice that if people see a train in the platform, they start running pell-mell for it, even if it has a long time until departure. Conversely if the train isn't visible, people don't get tricked into thinking they're about to miss it.
One interesting quantification of this might be accidents from footbridges vs accidents from subways - as of course from underneath you won't see the train until you're right at the top of the stairs.
it isn’t counter productive, and the stats prove it. (Not in public domain so not quotable).
Perhaps some sort of platform heels are in order?
devon_belle
Member
I don't think this is necessarily a bad initiative. People running for trains can be a nightmare, especially for those disembarking or for those they weave around/trip over. What happened to good old-fashioned British queue culture!
It is a shame to lose some views, but honestly I think there are plenty of better places to watch trains.
It is a shame to lose some views, but honestly I think there are plenty of better places to watch trains.
it isn’t counter productive, and the stats prove it. (Not in public domain so not quotable).
Perhaps some sort of platform heels are in order?
It is counterproductive to me.
On many occasions I'd be rushing for a Leeds train at Wakefield Kirkgate, then on looking up the line I'd see nothing in the vicinity and be able to relax and slow down.
The problem is that passengers have to make judgements all the time. "Can I make this train in so many minutes" etc.
When the passenger is on the station, they need as much information, including visual information to make that judgement of whether they can catch that train.
This wonderful idea just takes more information away from passengers.
It remains a terrible idea.
zwk500
Veteran Member
Perhaps some sort of platform heels are in order?
It's a wonderful image. I'm uncoordinated enough in normal shoes...A lot of this is individual pain vs collective gain. While the individual who misses their train is obviously penalised, should the 400 or more who are already on that train have their own journeys delayed while the passenger who was unable to make the train on time is accommodated? Either way, things that stop people cracking their teeth on a platform surface because they've charged down the stairs after a train they were never making should be seen as a good thing.
A lot of this is individual pain vs collective gain. While the individual who misses their train is obviously penalised, should the 400 or more who are already on that train have their own journeys delayed while the passenger who was unable to make the train on time is accommodated? Either way, things that stop people cracking their teeth on a platform surface because they've charged down the stairs after a train they were never making should be seen as a good thing.
On a fundamental level, this is about denying passengers information. The basic information of where the train is in relation to where they are.
I think that this is a bad thing because like any animal, passengers are likely to be more tetchy and irritable the less information they have about their situation they have.
Why do we spend millions on information screens if we are prepared to deny passengers the simplest information system available - sight of where the train should be ?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Comparing station footbridges with station subways could prove interesting. On caveat is that the last dash in the case of a subway would be UP the steps rather than down them to the platform.
For me it is nice having light airy spaces instead of claustrophobic hemmed in spaces. It is probably why I prefer 350s over Pendolinos (and the lack of aircon noise). I also find the buildings on a raft inside Waterloo Station (over approximately platforms 5-10) disappointing and a waste of an overall glazed roof. It shows how little respect some decision makers have to spaces. It is why when I stray onto SouthEastern and end up on a 465 or 466 I am struck how pleasant they are compared to 377s and 375s. GN customers must really miss the 365s ?.
I suppose the lack of accidents due to slam door stock must highlight the next lower level of danger but do we need to draw a line ?.
But hey ho safety has to have its place.
I think this seems quite likely given that they are on the south side only. It has the added bonus of preventing the quite enclosed over bridge from getting too hot on sunny days, but does rather spoil a potential view of the viaduct from above.
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Guilty as charged I'm afraid.
zwk500
Veteran Member
There's nothing wrong with it, of course, but you have to accept that personal preferences for looking at trains will usually have to play second fiddle to the bread-and-butter of the railway, which is moving people around the country safely and on time.
It may very well be good old fashioned b******t, the first time I saw it, I thought it might be for a different reason:
Platform 2 at Wakefield Westgate is a very bleak place to wait in unpleasant weather with no waiting room, no backwall to the platform and only a rudimentary canopy which offers little or no protection against wind or driving rain. Many passengers were in the habit of waiting up on the footbridge until their train could be seen approaching simply because it was warmer up there, I've done it myself and perhaps it did cause a bit of congestion at times. I think it was frowned upon by LNER and the frosted glass solved the problem.....Of course LNER would deny that!
That theory makes very little sense, as one could easily see the train using the north windows
You also get a lovely view of Wakefield Prison.
Quite an attractive piece of architecture!
Are you also opposed to trains being removed from departure screens/ terminal stations before departure time? It’s the same criteria.
Information is good for so long as you can do something about it; after that it can become dangerous as people start to panic.
Slips, trips and falls are by far the most numerous safety incidents on the railway with a particular risk around the platform-train interface so I think any slight ‘nudging’ intervention is beneficial.
It serves its purpose!
I've not noticed that happen on any of the stations I use. Usually the screens show the train destination until after its left.
Statistics aren't proof of anything. Is there analysis ruling out other factors?
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Wakefield Westgate has to take first prize for "most underwhelming redevelopment of a station". The building on the up side is nicer than the 1950s carbuncle it replaced, but the down side is woefully spartan. At the very least there should be a proper enclosed waiting room where the disused bay and former "Light Waves" art installation was? Would mean people would end up running for anything that wasn't a 9 or 10-car formation though!
At Leeds, they should have thought of that before cluttering up the footbridge with coffee and pastry kiosks. It was obvious within weeks that the footbridge was inadequate for the volumes of passengers using the station, and they still decided to clog it up with stuff that didn't need to be there.
At least Dewsbury's footbridge still has proper unfrosted windows for the time being.
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