Aslef strike around Tory conference dates

[EC54]

Can we all just agree, To put the government and the unions in a room together and lock the door until they come to A reasonable agreement.

As long as you know it's the government that would block that, they have disappeared altogether never mind getting in a room to talk

 

[Bantamzen]

This pretty much happened back in April. The TOC's, RDG, and Union came to an agreement. The RDG then took the agreement to the Government for sign-off overnight, as despite what someone else on this thread says, it only happens when the Government agrees to it! The RDG came back the next morning with something that was nothing like what was previously agreed between said three parties.

But the ignorant still think this is the union playing politics...

Out of interest are there copies of the "before" and "after" drafts? I'd be amazed if this government could re-draft an agreement overnight!

 

[EC54]

If stopping me from going anywhere *was* resulting in protecting T&Cs and getting a decent wage rise, then you may have a point - but clearly, after all this time, it isn't.

The Government don't care. According to this thread it seems the drivers don't particularly care either, as it seems they can make up the money they lose on strike some other time. So it seems it is is just the passengers trying to use the railway that care, and they're the one group that have no say in the dispute.

Except of course they can eventually, by being driven to find alternatives to relying on the railway, new habits that will more likely than not stick. The government would most probably be happy with that as an outcome too, as they can then justify slashing frequencies, maybe entire lines, and thus jobs.

I know I've spent a lot less on the railway over the past 18 months than usual, and I'm slowly adjusting to new habits that don't involve the railway at all. If I end up buying a car, or even just having different sorts of holidays that involve a lot less rail travel, that's significantly less money over the next 10-20 years that the railway will get out of me.

And your solution is? when the government is blocking all reasonable talks.

 

[island]

And your solution is? when the government is blocking all reasonable talks.

The TOCs made an offer and ASLEF refused to put it to the members.

 

[scouseyb123]

Indeed, while it must be said that I certainly don't "hate" train drivers, I will probably just log out now and not return.

I was a fan of the railways but now sick of this situation, and glad I'm now barely beholden to a system that spontaneously and frequently withdraws its labour.

You wont be missed

 

[MikeWM]

And your solution is? when the government is blocking all reasonable talks.

I've no idea, I'm not a specialist in industrial relations or what alternative options are available.

As an observer though, I agree the issue is with the government, so the aim of any strategy has to be to put pressure on the government to come to the table and compromise. And these strikes clearly are not doing so.

 

[Ashfordian6]

Out of interest are there copies of the "before" and "after" drafts? I'd be amazed if this government could re-draft an agreement overnight!

Ask the Government. It was them who scuppered the negotiated settlement.

I doubt you'll get an honest response but you are welcome to try.

 

[Bantamzen]

Ask the Government. It was them who scuppered the negotiated settlement.

I doubt you'll get an honest response but you are welcome to try.

Surely the unions will have copies?

 

[EC54]

The TOCs made an offer and ASLEF refused to put it to the members.

Because it is a waste of time as it's not an acceptable offer to put to there members to do away with most of your t&c' s.. They also know by feedback from each branch that it would never get accepted..
However let's say they put it to there members and 90,% + reject it . Then what? Is that a mandate that the government must then allow the TOC to come up with a more reasonable offer. Why do you think the government threw a spanner in the works at the last second to scupper talks regarding the t&C's ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2023 ==

I've no idea, I'm not a specialist in industrial relations or what alternative options are available.

As an observer though, I agree the issue is with the government, so the aim of any strategy has to be to put pressure on the government to come to the table and compromise. And these strikes clearly are not doing so.

So you have no answer and neither does anyone else, So this will continue for a long time.

 

[dk1]

How long before this thread gets locked?

 

[EC54]

How long before this thread gets locked?

Minutes away, we just go round in circles everytime a strike date is announced

 

[dakta]

Indeed, while it must be said that I certainly don't "hate" train drivers, I will probably just log out now and not return.

I was a fan of the railways but now sick of this situation, and glad I'm now barely beholden to a system that spontaneously and frequently withdraws its labour.

Whilst it's going to be an unpopular one in these parts, it's a view you're entitled to.

 

[dk1]

Minutes away, we just go round in circles everytime a strike date is announced

Don’t we just. Entertaining none the less.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes congratulations everyone we've had the same tired and divisive arguments that we always end up having in which no-one changes their minds and everyone gets a little bit more angry with each other. I hope you've all had a good time doing the same thing again and again. The thread is locked, there is no progress in the dispute but thanks to the OP for bringing the new dates to everyone's attention.

I've not had chance to read the thread, nor do I expect to discover anything earth shattering when I do considering nothing has changed in months, but I would ask that members consider the Forum Rules when making their contributions.

We are all supposed to be making this a friendly place where members can discuss something which, in theory, we all like. I worry that too often in these threads, whilst the emotions are perfectly understandable considering the impacts on those who are losing their pay striking, who are worried about their Ts and Cs, and on those who are having plans both small and large continually ruined, members lose sight of the fact that we should still be trying our best to treat each other in a friendly or at least civil way.

Social Media has gotten ever more toxic as algorithms and then the media at large feed on our engagement with outrage and fear to make money and get more eyeballs on their sites and stories. It is natural that toxicity that has grown out of Social Media like Twitter or Facebook bleeds across into other places like forums but I would like to think that the slower pace of something like a Forum and the lack of an algorithm designed to trigger people's worst instincts in the hopes of keeping them engaged would mean that we could all do better to make this a more positive and friendly environment than it sometimes ends up being.