Experimental vehicles in everyday use

[Merle Haggard]

It certainly ran in service. My records show that I was hauled by it on 4 seperate occasions between September 1965 and October 1966 on each occasion from Crewe to Manchester or vice versa. It seemed to be regularly booked on the 11.55 Cardiff-Manchester from Crewe.

Thank you, I stand corrected.

Interesting that it only worked North of Crewe (because of the origin/destination); perhaps it was in practice limited to this section by traction knowledge . Euston was reached by timetabled electric trains in the Summer of 1966 so its continuing use on the working you experienced also suggests that possibility. We thought we had the W.C.M.L. 'covered' but only in Northamptonshire.

I photographed it on Crewe (presumably the E.D.) on 5 8 67 when it was stabled on very rusty rails behind overhead maintenance coaches and I think I recall that it was regarded as out of use by then. I thought I took a photo of it with the test cables at an earlier date but I can't find it at the moment,

E3100 was not as elusive to spotters as any loco with prefix/number starting E33-- though (presumably these have been mentioned up-thread)

 

[robert thomas]

Thank you, I stand corrected.

Interesting that it only worked North of Crewe (because of the origin/destination); perhaps it was in practice limited to this section by traction knowledge . Euston was reached by timetabled electric trains in the Summer of 1966 so its continuing use on the working you experienced also suggests that possibility. We thought we had the W.C.M.L. 'covered' but only in Northamptonshire.

I photographed it on Crewe (presumably the E.D.) on 5 8 67 when it was stabled on very rusty rails behind overhead maintenance coaches and I think I recall that it was regarded as out of use by then. I thought I took a photo of it with the test cables at an earlier date but I can't find it at the moment,

E3100 was not as elusive to spotters as any loco with prefix/number starting E33-- though (presumably these have been mentioned up-thread)

Having checked my records I find that on 11th February 1966 I had it on the 18.05 Manchester-Birmingham as far as Stafford. So it did work south of Crewe.

 

[Lucan]

On London Underground, around 1977 an A Stock trailer car 5218 was fitted with air suspension in place of the normal rubber suspension and ran in that form in service for a while on the Metropolitan Line. This was to assess the possible use of air suspension for the D Stock then being designed. In the event, D Stock was built with rubber suspension.

 

[apinnard]

Class 442 had a couple of prototype conversions in their lifespan.

2416 had its original hvac kit replaced with equipment from Liebherr that was fed directly from the third rail. It was mostly unreliable and one of the reasons for its earlier withdrawal under SWT. In the final weeks, it was going round with crates of bottled water onboard.

2409 had trial electronic traction control installed in place of its camshaft. It was designed by ex-Alstom guy Paul Steane, who I am reliably informed still has photos from the conversion. The unit kept its prototype traction control kit until Southern put the camshaft back in, to revert it back to standard.

 

[Gloster]

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Southern Region 2- and 4-PEP (Pack ‘Em Perpendicular) that were tried out on the South Western Division and, briefly, the South Eastern in 1973-1974. They were the prototype for the Class 313-315 and 507-508.

 

[DustyBin]

In the early days one 2H (or 3H) was fitted with a different (i.e. not a 4SRKT) engine. I recall reading about it many years ago, but unfortunately I can't remember the details; I think it may have been a V6 or V8 engine of some description. Does anyone here know more?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2023 ==

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Southern Region 2- and 4-PEP (Pack ‘Em Perpendicular) that were tried out on the South Western Division and, briefly, the South Eastern in 1973-1974. They were the prototype for the Class 313-315 and 507-508.

I'm not sure if they count as they were purpose built prototypes?

 

[Helvellyn]

A couple more EMU ones.

4-CEP 7153 was the prototype for the fleet refurbishment. There were a few detail differences and it never gained hopper ventilatiors, retaining its sliding lights.

4-BEP 7022 had its Buffet (69021) fitted with prototype air conditioning equipment.

 

[4SubAsociation]

A couple more EMU ones.

4-CEP 7153 was the prototype for the fleet refurbishment. There were a few detail differences and it never gained hopper ventilatiors, retaining its sliding lights.

4-BEP 7022 had its Buffet (69021) fitted with prototype air conditioning equipment.

The trailer car for 7153 is still around. Its at Sutton Bridge - http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5069

Another experimental 455 was 5912, whose trailer vehicle was used to evaluate plug doors in advance of the Networker programme. As the modifications to the door apertures made conversion back to standard uneconomic, the trailer was replaced with 67400 from one of the Class 210 prototypes - making the unit recognisable because of the different design of rainstrips over the doors in the trailer vehicle.

5913 also acquired a vehicle converted from a class 210, no 67301, when its original motor coach was written off after a concrete mixer lorry fell on its roof.

That vehicle, 67400, was also part of unit 7001, an experimental unit converted from class 210 carriages, again as part of the networker programme, and used in passenger service alongside the 455s.

Here is some more information on this (http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/features/rolling-stock/455/index.html). The orignal plug door vechiles where 71731 and 71732 which where in units 5905/5912 and 5918. 71732 was converted back. However 71731 was swapped with 67400 which was spare at the time (with 67400 being made to look more like a 455 with the glass swapped etc). 67400 was to enter preservation at the time but the deal was withdrawn because of the issues with 71731. Some bits of 71731 which was at Eastleigh for paint trials do live on in 67300 at the East Kent Railway (I will do a update on the 457 in this thread - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ss-457-spondon-and-ruston-165de-mazda.249284/)

 

[43096]

Mark 3 experiments
A number of Mark 3 vehicles were fitted with different bogies in the 1980s, including variants of the BT10. One, however, given a more radical trial was 12140 that was fitted with SIG bogies as eventually used on the Mark 4s. It retained these into Virgin Trains days but it's non-standard nature meant it was an early withdrawal (and scrapped) once the Pendolinos came online.

12140 was used for much of its life for bogie experiments. It received experimental BT7 bogies in the mid 1970s, before later getting the SIG BT41 prototypes (http://www.traintesting.com/M12140_Mk3_coach.htm if you want to know more) and later got T4 bogies that it kept for the rest of its life. The non-standard nature of its bogies saw it sacrificed in a public scrapping by Porterbrook when the West Coast Mark 3 fleet was off-leased.

10200/10201 were the prototype Modular catering vehicles. Converted as RSMs (from redundant HST TRUKs) with low back seats they were subsequently converted to RFMs with normal first class seats.

Although they were converted to RFM, they were still rather non-standard compared with the production RFMs.

In the early days one 2H (or 3H) was fitted with a different (i.e. not a 4SRKT) engine. I recall reading about it many years ago, but unfortunately I can't remember the details; I think it may have been a V6 or V8 engine of some description. Does anyone here know more?

From https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-2H-3H-3T-Hampshire.html
"Around May 1964 unit number 1129 was experimentally fitted with a Dorman 12QTCW V12 engine of 725bhp, but the standard 4SRKT was refitted after about one year."

 

[Ianigsy]

One that came to mind earlier was 150137 (if I remember rightly) which had a vending machine for hot drinks installed - I remember using it on the way to Etruria for the garden festival in 1986. One for the “health and safety would have a fit” box.

 

[Helvellyn]

Mark 3 experiments
10200/10201 were the prototype Modular catering vehicles. Converted as RSMs (from redundant HST TRUKs) with low back seats they were subsequently converted to RFMs with normal first class seats.

Although they were converted to RFM, they were still rather non-standard compared with the production RFMs.

Any particular details you recall? I only knew about the low back seating when they were RSMs because of a photo in an "InterCity 21" booklet I have. If I recall correctly at this point there were no luggage racks either, so in some senses it was a Mark 3 version of a RBR and I guess initially designed for passengers to eat and return to their seats.

 

[Taunton]

I think I read somewhere that back in the 1900s the GWR tested/piloted its ATC (AWS) system on the Fairford branch. During this period the distant signals were removed, with total reliance being placed on the ATC system instead. Only locos fitted with the (prototype) ATC equipment were allowed to work the branch. So there must have been a small pool of locos fitted with this experimental equipment very much in normal traffic. No doubt other have more details.

Just for completeness, ATC was installed tested on the Henley branch, it having been developed by the GWR central signal works at nearby Reading. The Fairford installation, done next, was different however as it was the only one applied to single lines (Henley was double line then), which had to handle trains in either direction but only warn the relevant ones, and so its locomotives indeed needed different fittings. It was later given up, the Henley system being the one rolled out. Incidentally, it was only the Distant signals on Fairford that were removed; not only were Stop signals retained, but single line tokens were as well.

 

[DustyBin]

From https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-2H-3H-3T-Hampshire.html
"Around May 1964 unit number 1129 was experimentally fitted with a Dorman 12QTCW V12 engine of 725bhp, but the standard 4SRKT was refitted after about one year."

Great stuff, thank you!

 

[Rescars]

Just for completeness, ATC was installed tested on the Henley branch, it having been developed by the GWR central signal works at nearby Reading. The Fairford installation, done next, was different however as it was the only one applied to single lines (Henley was double line then), which had to handle trains in either direction but only warn the relevant ones, and so its locomotives indeed needed different fittings. It was later given up, the Henley system being the one rolled out. Incidentally, it was only the Distant signals on Fairford that were removed; not only were Stop signals retained, but single line tokens were as well.

Many thanks for this additional info. I wonder if the identities of the locos fitted with this prototype equipment for working the two branches are known.

 

[Strathclyder]

303051, 055-56 & 085
These 4 Class 303s retained their original Widney sliding windows when put through refurbishment by BR/Strathclyde PTE in the mid-80s, the 46 other 303s gained the Beclawat hopper windows during refurbishment. Have never found out the reason for this, was it simply a case of lack of available Beclawats when these units were put through the refurbishment process?

From https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-2H-3H-3T-Hampshire.html
"Around May 1964 unit number 1129 was experimentally fitted with a Dorman 12QTCW V12 engine of 725bhp, but the standard 4SRKT was refitted after about one year."

Fascinating, wonder what that would've sounded like compared to the 'thump' of the standard EE powerplant.

Class 43, 43167-43170
These four power cars had their original Paxman Valenta engines replaced by Mirrlees engines to see if better reliability and fuel efficiency could be achieved. I think the results were mixed and the power cars would eventually be re-engined to test the Paxman VP185 engine that was used to re-engine a number of power cars in the early days of privatisation before all ended up in Midland Mainline Power Cars.

There is at least one video clip of a Mirrlees-fitted 43 (43168 to be exact) arriving and departing Neath in April 1989, shot by Robert Masterman. The specific powerplant in question was the MB190. Contrast and compare with the then-standard issue Valenta power-car at the rear!

 

[DustyBin]

Fascinating, wonder what that would've sounded like compared to the 'thump' of the standard EE powerplant.

There are videos on YouTube of these engines running; they sound quite different to the 4SRKT as you'd expect. I think you can get a good idea of how the 205 would have sounded (sadly I think this is as close as we'll get).

 

[2392]

From steam days, there was Gresley's "Hush Hush" an experimental 4-6-4 [some say 4-6-2-2] high pressure loco 10,000. It had a Yarrows' designed water-tube boiler in lieu of the standard fire tube boiler. It ran with limited success IIRC, but as with so many experimental machines suffered with being a one off, spending much time out of service being repaired/modified. The Yarrow boiler having a working pressure of around 450+/-psi, compared to the more usual 220-250 of the fire tube boiler.

 

[Taunton]

Many thanks for this additional info. I wonder if the identities of the locos fitted with this prototype equipment for working the two branches are known.

Most likely a GWR Metro 2-4-0T tank loco. There were three allocated to Fairford at the grouping in 1923, and they had been around since Victorian times. Henley likely the same, but different locos.

Incidentally, the Fairford approach, which used positive and negative polarity current to distinguish the different directions on a single line (no, I don't quite know how but would like to find out) was employed again post-WW2 on the main Paddington to Reading line, recently resignalled, to distinguish between single and double yellow, which must have meant changing the equipment on a large number of locomotives, but this experiment was given up shortly afterwards as well.

 

[annlodge12]

12140 was used for much of its life for bogie experiments. It received experimental BT7 bogies in the mid 1970s, before later getting the SIG BT41 prototypes (http://www.traintesting.com/M12140_Mk3_coach.htm if you want to know more) and later got T4 bogies that it kept for the rest of its life. The non-standard nature of its bogies saw it sacrificed in a public scrapping by Porterbrook when the West Coast Mark 3 fleet was off-leased.

Although they were converted to RFM, they were still rather non-standard compared with the production RFMs.

From https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-2H-3H-3T-Hampshire.html
"Around May 1964 unit number 1129 was experimentally fitted with a Dorman 12QTCW V12 engine of 725bhp, but the standard 4SRKT was refitted after about one year."

great stuff!

 

[Rescars]

Most likely a GWR Metro 2-4-0T tank loco. There were three allocated to Fairford at the grouping in 1923, and they had been around since Victorian times. Henley likely the same, but different locos.

Incidentally, the Fairford approach, which used positive and negative polarity current to distinguish the different directions on a single line (no, I don't quite know how but would like to find out) was employed again post-WW2 on the main Paddington to Reading line, recently resignalled, to distinguish between single and double yellow, which must have meant changing the equipment on a large number of locomotives, but this experiment was given up shortly afterwards as well.

All very interesting. The use of polarity to distinguish direction of travel is intriguing. Perhaps the trains had to be worked bunker/tender first in one direction, so as not to confuse the polarities on loco. Would have been an irritation for the operators though, especially as Fairford had a turntable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2023 ==

From steam days, there was Gresley's "Hush Hush" an experimental 4-6-4 [some say 4-6-2-2] high pressure loco 10,000. It had a Yarrows' designed water-tube boiler in lieu of the standard fire tube boiler. It ran with limited success IIRC, but as with so many experimental machines suffered with being a one off, spending much time out of service being repaired/modified. The Yarrow boiler having a working pressure of around 450+/-psi, compared to the more usual 220-250 of the fire tube boiler.

Compared with the LMS, not quite as successful as the Turbomotive, but significantly better than Fury.

 

[2392]

True, Rescars. The thing I find a little ironic is that the water-tube boiler off 10,000 out lasted the rest of the engine by 5-6 years. As once the project was ended and she was rebuilt with a conventional boiler. The original boiler wasn't scrapped but sent to [Darlington] North Road Work supplying steam/hot water etc to the works. The engine was derailed in an accident in around 1959-60 and withdrawn/scrapped as a none standard design, with the original boiler being condemned in 1965-66 when North Road closed.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Having checked my records I find that on 11th February 1966 I had it on the 18.05 Manchester-Birmingham as far as Stafford. So it did work south of Crewe.

Thanks - that was the Southern limit of electrification and everything changed traction there. I was thinking more of working through to Euston.

As an aside, I travelled on the annual B.R. advertised excursion to Crewe Works around this time and the Jubilee gave way to an electric for the last 25 miles - seems remarkable now with the widespread use of diesel under the wires. It was interesting though; it seemed the AL driver tried to re-create the infamous Duchess of Hamilton test run, including more than 100 down from Madeley and braking very hard (and a little late) for Crewe. The cast iron brake shoes on ex L.M.S. coaches always created an interesting steelworks-type smell under heavy braking from high speed Some of the early runs behind ALs were very exciting, later damped down by men with radar guns hanging around...

 

[Harvester]

I'm sure I've seen photographs of crosti-boilered 9F's running iron ore trains to Consett.

I never saw any in the northeast! The nearest allocations were at Carlisle Kingmoor, where I saw a couple of newly allocated locos (92021/92023) on a visit in August 1964.

 

[Rescars]

True, Rescars. The thing I find a little ironic is that the water-tube boiler off 10,000 out lasted the rest of the engine by 5-6 years. As once the project was ended and she was rebuilt with a conventional boiler. The original boiler wasn't scrapped but sent to [Darlington] North Road Work supplying steam/hot water etc to the works. The engine was derailed in an accident in around 1959-60 and withdrawn/scrapped as a none standard design, with the original boiler being condemned in 1965-66 when North Road closed.

Just proves serious recycling isn't such a new idea then!

 

[DerekC]

From steam days, there was Gresley's "Hush Hush" an experimental 4-6-4 [some say 4-6-2-2] high pressure loco 10,000. It had a Yarrows' designed water-tube boiler in lieu of the standard fire tube boiler. It ran with limited success IIRC, but as with so many experimental machines suffered with being a one off, spending much time out of service being repaired/modified. The Yarrow boiler having a working pressure of around 450+/-psi, compared to the more usual 220-250 of the fire tube boiler.

True, Rescars. The thing I find a little ironic is that the water-tube boiler off 10,000 out lasted the rest of the engine by 5-6 years. As once the project was ended and she was rebuilt with a conventional boiler. The original boiler wasn't scrapped but sent to [Darlington] North Road Work supplying steam/hot water etc to the works. The engine was derailed in an accident in around 1959-60 and withdrawn/scrapped as a none standard design, with the original boiler being condemned in 1965-66 when North Road closed.

Yes - being fairly ancient I can remember the rebuilt loco - BR 60700 - running on the ECML and christened "Unnamed Streak" by us spotters.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2023 ==

I am surprised nobody has yet mentioned:

• LMS 10000 and 10001 - prototype Co-Co diesels by the LMS (OK, there were two but they usually ran in multiple) - I can recall seeing them on the "Royal Scot"
• The very odd "Fell" diesel mechanical - BR 10100 - a 2-D-2 with four 500bhp Davey Paxman engines (not sure if this ever hauled a service train)
• Brown Boveri gas turbine A1A-A1A No 10800 - I think this still exists somewhere. Seen on a service train at Paddington sometime in the late 1950s
• Metrovick gas turbine Co-Co No 18100 - I think this one was converted to a prototype 25kV electric loco

 

[Harvester]

Yes - being fairly ancient I can remember the rebuilt loco - BR 60700 - running on the ECML and christened "Unnamed Streak" by us spotters.

Apparently Doncaster cast “PEGASUS” plates for 60700 but they were never fitted! The W1 seemed to work almost exclusively on a Doncaster to Kings Cross and return diagram, after being allocated to 36A in 1953. We never got to see it in the northeast!

 

[Rescars]

Yes - being fairly ancient I can remember the rebuilt loco - BR 60700 - running on the ECML and christened "Unnamed Streak" by us spotters.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2023 ==

I am surprised nobody has yet mentioned:

• LMS 10000 and 10001 - prototype Co-Co diesels by the LMS (OK, there were two but they usually ran in multiple) - I can recall seeing them on the "Royal Scot"
• The very odd "Fell" diesel mechanical - BR 10100 - a 2-D-2 with four 500bhp Davey Paxman engines (not sure if this ever hauled a service train)
• Brown Boveri gas turbine A1A-A1A No 10800 - I think this still exists somewhere. Seen on a service train at Paddington sometime in the late 1950s
• Metrovick gas turbine Co-Co No 18100 - I think this one was converted to a prototype 25kV electric loco

Perhaps we should also add the SR Bulleid-Raworth electrics to this list.

If we are allowed to cross the Irish Sea, we could also add in the Turfburner.

 

[DustyBin]

Yes - being fairly ancient I can remember the rebuilt loco - BR 60700 - running on the ECML and christened "Unnamed Streak" by us spotters.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2023 ==

I am surprised nobody has yet mentioned:

• LMS 10000 and 10001 - prototype Co-Co diesels by the LMS (OK, there were two but they usually ran in multiple) - I can recall seeing them on the "Royal Scot"
• The very odd "Fell" diesel mechanical - BR 10100 - a 2-D-2 with four 500bhp Davey Paxman engines (not sure if this ever hauled a service train)
• Brown Boveri gas turbine A1A-A1A No 10800 - I think this still exists somewhere. Seen on a service train at Paddington sometime in the late 1950s
• Metrovick gas turbine Co-Co No 18100 - I think this one was converted to a prototype 25kV electric loco

Perhaps we should also add the SR Bulleid-Raworth electrics to this list.

If we are allowed to cross the Irish Sea, we could also add in the Turfburner.

Again, they’re all purpose-built prototypes and therefore don’t meet the criteria set out by the OP.

(I didn’t make the rules!).

 

[norbitonflyer]

• The very odd "Fell" diesel mechanical - BR 10100 - a 2-D-2 with four 500bhp Davey Paxman engines (not sure if this ever hauled a service train)

It did - as shown here.

Its final demise was caused by a fire in the train heating boiler whilst working a service train

 

[Strathclyder]

In regards to the Crosti 9Fs, I believe that after the relevent components was removed/taken out of use, they were unoffically reclassifed as 8Fs given the reduction in power output.

Again, they’re all purpose-built prototypes and therefore don’t meet the criteria set out by the OP.

(I didn’t make the rules!).

Indeed, which is why I didn't mention 10000/10001, 10100 etc. myself.

The very odd "Fell" diesel mechanical - BR 10100 - a 2-D-2 with four 500bhp Davey Paxman engines (not sure if this ever hauled a service train)

The Fell locomotive actually did see use on regularly scheduled passenger services during her testing phase on the Midland Mainline (it was used regularly on a St. Pancras - Manchester diagram at one stage), when she was in working order at least! This keymodelworld article has some truly excellent photos of this beast in service and under construction, perhaps the best I've ever seen of her.

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