Italy to UK next week?

[Lancs]

Hi all,
I'm after some advice. I have a couple of aging relatives in Bagni di Lucca. One of them has been in hospital there recently, and we just want to get them home in the most expeditious manner whilst minimising the changes and hassle. After a lot of to-and-fro-ing, we've come up with the following schedule. But I'm unable to book it from one website, as I can't specify extended time to change trains in Italy for example - where I'm planning to essentially buy tickets for 3 journeys. I am therefore concerned about any en-route delays and their impact especially with regard to company tolerances. So, any advice on the whole subject area would be appreciated. Proposal below:

Bagni Di Lucca (06:55) - Pisa Centrale (08:13)
11 Sep • 2 Adults

Pisa Centrale (09:24) - Genova Piazza Principe (12:49)
11 Sep • 2 Adults

Genova Piazza Principe (13:43) - Ventimiglia (16:06)
11 Sep • 1 Adult

All one transaction with Trenitalia.

Ventimiglia 11/9 16:46
Nice City 11/9 17:41

Stop in Nice for the night of Monday 11/9, then:

09:57
Nice City
15:50
Paris lyon's train station

1 hour to change, 1 hour to check-in, 1 hour for problems => 18:50 minimum

Paris Gare-du-nord
19:09
London St-Pancras
20:30
Also 20:09 and 21:09 departures… arriving 21:30 and 22:30 respectively

Last train for Temple Meads departs at 23:32

These being trains I assume the schedule is not much different each day, just availabilty...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2023 ==

...

I should probably add that flying is off the cards!

 

[Watershed]

If minimising changes and hassle is the primary aim, I almost hesitate to suggest this on a rail forum, but you really should consider flying!

easyJet has a flight from Pisa to Bristol on Sun 10th for €165, departing at 10:35. That would be easily doable using the 06:55 from Bagni do Lucca which you suggest - the (ripoff) PisaMover takes you directly from Pisa Centrale to the airport terminal in a couple of minutes.

That's expensive by easyJet standards but it's undeniably a very convenient option, and almost certainly cheaper than the train. If your elderly relative were willing to travel at a later date and/or from airports that are further afield on either end, it can be done for a lot less.

For instance, on Mon 11th there's an €82 flight from Milan Malpensa to Luton, or €86 from Milan Bergamo to Gatwick. See a full list of plausible options here.

Even as someone who enjoys rail travel, I'd find it hard to choose the train over any of the above options.

However, if travelling by rail is non-negotiable then I would suggest an Interrail pass. It would almost certainly be the cheapest way of making the journey considering the cost of tickets at such short notice.

Assuming standard class travel (and that your relative is 60+) the cheapest such pass is £204/€232 for 4 days within 1 month. You also have to add on the cost of reservations. These cost:

• €3 for Italian IC services - can be booked via the ÖBB website, specifying the Interrail pass as a discount card, or via any Italian ticket office
• €10 or €20 for TGVs - depending on availability (there's only a limited quota of €10 reservations). Can be booked via the phone with SNCF in theory, but their call centre is only open during the week! Also available via the Interrail reservation site (see link).
• €30 for the Eurostar. Bookable via SNCB through their B-Europe site (see link) or via the Interrail reservation site.

One major hurdle you're likely to come across is Eurostar availability for Interrail passholder reservations. I understand they're quota controlled and/or linked to the public price.

Currently there is no Interrail passholder reservation availability for any Eurostar departure from Paris on the 11th after the 13:06. The next available service is on the morning of the 12th... The public fare is currently £189.50 for the 19:09 or £164.50 for the 20:09 or 21:09.

So I would suggest that your relative continues on beyond Nice towards Paris - perhaps somewhere like Marseille, which it would easily be possible to reach on Sun 11th, with a change at Nice-Ville.

Taking the 07:04 TGV from Marseille St-Charles to Paris Gare de Lyon (non-stop for 625km from Avignon, arriving at 10:22) would guarantee a perfectly safe connection into the the 13:06 Eurostar. There's also a 06:04 arriving an hour earlier if you prefer. Either allows for a much more civilised arrival time into Bristol.

If you prefer to buy individual tickets rather than an Interrail pass, you'll get the best prices by going direct to the relevant operators' websites. However, with each operator more or less doing their own thing, I can understand the appeal of booking it all through Trainline, who show the times and fares for all operators (albeit adding a booking fee and unfavourable € to £ exchange rate).

Hope that helps!

 

[AlbertBeale]

Hi all,
I'm after some advice. I have a couple of aging relatives in Bagni di Lucca. One of them has been in hospital there recently, and we just want to get them home in the most expeditious manner whilst minimising the changes and hassle. After a lot of to-and-fro-ing, we've come up with the following schedule. But I'm unable to book it from one website, as I can't specify extended time to change trains in Italy for example - where I'm planning to essentially buy tickets for 3 journeys. I am therefore concerned about any en-route delays and their impact especially with regard to company tolerances. So, any advice on the whole subject area would be appreciated. Proposal below:

Bagni Di Lucca (06:55) - Pisa Centrale (08:13)
11 Sep • 2 Adults

Pisa Centrale (09:24) - Genova Piazza Principe (12:49)
11 Sep • 2 Adults

Genova Piazza Principe (13:43) - Ventimiglia (16:06)
11 Sep • 1 Adult

All one transaction with Trenitalia.

Ventimiglia 11/9 16:46
Nice City 11/9 17:41

Stop in Nice for the night of Monday 11/9, then:

09:57
Nice City
15:50
Paris lyon's train station

1 hour to change, 1 hour to check-in, 1 hour for problems => 18:50 minimum

Paris Gare-du-nord
19:09
London St-Pancras
20:30
Also 20:09 and 21:09 departures… arriving 21:30 and 22:30 respectively

Last train for Temple Meads departs at 23:32

These being trains I assume the schedule is not much different each day, just availabilty...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2023 ==


I should probably add that flying is off the cards!

Re "But I'm unable to book it from one website" - in my experience this should all be bookable via RailEurope; even though it'll not be one through ticket, if you buy everything at once there's just the one (£6-ish I think) booking fee for everything. (I think Rail Europe generally sell tickets at the same price as going to the national operators directly, unless the latter have special deals on.)

I presume you're looking to go round the coast via Ventimiglia because of the current blockage on the Turin-Lyon route. Going from Bagni di Lucca to Florence, instead of to Pisa, to connect with a main line train, would allow a connection from Florence to Paris with just two changes (Milan and Zurich) in one day - but the fewer changes are balanced by tighter connections than on your itinerary (and it would mean leaving Bagni di Lucca nearly an hour earlier).

Alternatively, to save such a long day, you could go via Switzerland but break the journey in, say, Basel (in lieu of overnighting in Nice); that's doable by leaving BdL at your original time, or later, going to Florence (with 1 change, in Lucca or Pisa); then leaving Florence 12.55 and arriving Basel 19.32 with just one same-station change in Milan. (The change in Milan is 30 minutes - but if you were worried about that you could get an earlier Florence-Milan service to link with the same Milan-Basel.) This has the advantage that Basel-Paris the next morning is much quicker than Nice-Paris (between 3 and 3.5 hours, rather than nearly 6), so giving much more flexibility in terms of Paris-London connections and onward connections to Bristol. The Basel-Paris direct trains run every 2 hours, but there are others - with one change, usually in Strasbourg - in between them. Although the latter has the extra change, there's the advantage that the Strasbourg trains arrive in Paris at Gare de l'Est (not Gare de Lyon) ... the GdL to GdN connection is quite a faff, in my experience, whilst GdE is just a rew minutes round the corner from GdN, so I'd personally go for the extra change in Strasbourg.

Each major chunk of this last version of the journey - ie BdL-Florence, Florence-Basel, and Basel-London can be done with only 1 change, and each can have some slack in the system.

I hope this might give some helpful extra options. Let us know how you get on!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I'd be tempted to keep going along the Riviera on Day 1 and stay in somewhere like Cannes - the 1646 off Ventimiglia arrives Cannes 1824. On Day 2 you can leave Cannes at 0701 arriving in Marseille at 0903. There is then the 1002 OUIGO TGV (bring your own refreshments) direct to Lille Flandres arriving 1430. It is much easier to then get to Lille Europe rather than having the aggravation of changing stations in Paris. 1635 Eurostar to St. Pancras and then plenty of trains to choose from from Paddington to Bristol, rather than fretting on the last one.

Alternatively on Day 1, by changing further at Cannes you could stay in St. Raphael and have a more civilised start on Day 2.

 

[Alfonso]

Only you know what factors other than changes are important (avoiding long walks, going up/down stairs on trains etc) but I think avoiding the Paris transfer either using lille or even Brussels to get the Eurostar sounds appealing. Milan-Basel-Germany-Brussels-England is probably significantly slower but involves more accessible, possibly more spacious single deck trains and in my subjective and not very well informed opinion possibly a more frailty-friendly train and station environment.

 

[DanielB]

• €10 or €20 for TGVs - depending on availability (there's only a limited quota of €10 reservations). Can be booked via the phone with SNCF in theory, but their call centre is only open during the week! Also available via the Interrail reservation site (see link).

Another option for those is booking via the Belgian railways site: https://travel.b-europe.com/Eurail-GE/en/booking-tgv#TravelWish

 

[rvdborgt]

€10 or €20 for TGVs - depending on availability (there's only a limited quota of €10 reservations). Can be booked via the phone with SNCF in theory, but their call centre is only open during the week!

According to SNCF, they're also open during weekends:

https://www.sncf-voyageurs.com/en/customer-service/contact-us/telephone/

 

[Watershed]

According to SNCF, they're also open during weekends:

https://www.sncf-voyageurs.com/en/customer-service/contact-us/telephone/

They were shut when I tried a couple of weeks ago - perhaps that was an outlier. When I did get through, they were certainly helpful. They have an English language option if you wait until the end of the French menu.

 

[rvdborgt]

They were shut when I tried a couple of weeks ago - perhaps that was an outlier. When I did get through, they were certainly helpful. They have an English language option if you wait until the end of the French menu.

You can also press #85 immediately, you don't have to wait until the end of the menu. I recently noticed they now finally say that in English. First time I called them, about 2 years ago, they said that in quite rapid French...

 

[30907]

I would also suggest routing through Switzerland from Milan - you can go
Geneva-Paris GdL- GdN - London or
Zurich/Basel - Paris etc;
alternatively to avoid crossing Paris there is the Strasbourg route already mentioned or you can go Geneva-Lyon-Lille-London which also avoids the queues at GdN check-in.
Overnight at Geneva or Lyon, leave Lyon at 11am-ish.
If the times work for you, that would be my preference.
It would almost certainly be easiest to book using Interrail - which BTW covers the trip through to Bristol.

PS I would also check out going via Firenze to Milan, though the coastal route is a nice one.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Only you know what factors other than changes are important (avoiding long walks, going up/down stairs on trains etc) but I think avoiding the Paris transfer either using lille or even Brussels to get the Eurostar sounds appealing. Milan-Basel-Germany-Brussels-England is probably significantly slower but involves more accessible, possibly more spacious single deck trains and in my subjective and not very well informed opinion possibly a more frailty-friendly train and station environment.

Adding this Brussels suggestion to my earlier Florence-Milan-Basel route, you can get from Basel to Brussels with one change in Cologne - no quicker than the Nice-Paris original routing, but you have the advantage of not having to cross Paris, so can safely plan for an earlier arrival in London to save pressure at that end. Of course the difficulty with whichever plan you go for is that you can't completely rule out a train being cancelled at the last moment, rather than just delayed - hence it makes sense to stick to main routes with frequent alternatives.

The one plus to your original route, Pisa-Genoa-Ventimiglia-Nice, is that it's very scenic!

 

[peterblue]

Currently there is no Interrail passholder reservation availability for any Eurostar departure from Paris on the 11th after the 13:06. The next available service is on the morning of the 12th... The public fare is currently £189.50 for the 19:09 or £164.50 for the 20:09 or 21:09.

There is passholder availability on the 1756 Eurostar train from Brussels on the 11th, and 1756 1855 or 2055 on the 12th, though it depends whether the OP's relatives are able to get there on time. Journey time is around 2 hours.

 

[Lancs]

Thank you everybody for your most helpful suggestions.

I'm reticent to even consider recommending the interrail idea, in the knowledge that they'll have to install and get to grips with a new app without any of our technical assistance available.

I struggle with the RailEurope / TrainLine itineraries, as they are insistent on the minimum change they can get away with. I'd like to start the journey with the 06xx start option, and drop onto the 08xx schedule part way through the journey. They don't seem able to deal with this.

At least for the Italian section, I'm happy to have found out that seat bookings on to contiguous sectors with the same provider gives you protection if the first is late! The check-in thing I find a little odd for the regional trains...

Keep any further ideas coming. Thanks again.

 

[30907]

I struggle with the RailEurope / TrainLine itineraries, as they are insistent on the minimum change they can get away with. I'd like to start the journey with the 06xx start option, and drop onto the 08xx schedule part way through the journey. They don't seem able to deal with this.

I take the point about Interrail - difficult to manage remotely if they are not IT-confident and a bit fiddly. And I assume cost is not a big issue

Despite the relatively tight connection in Florence (there is a backup!), I would go with Rail Europe's suggestion for an overnight in Geneva or Lyon - depending on whether they are early risers or not

 

[rvdborgt]

I'm reticent to even consider recommending the interrail idea, in the knowledge that they'll have to install and get to grips with a new app without any of our technical assistance available.

You can buy a paper pass.

At least for the Italian section, I'm happy to have found out that seat bookings on to contiguous sectors with the same provider gives you protection if the first is late! The check-in thing I find a little odd for the regional trains...

I'm not sure what you mean. What is that check-in? I've never heard of it.

 

[peterblue]

There shouldn't be any mandatory check-in period for any daytime trains in Italy, though arriving about 5-10 mins before departure is recommended.

 

[Lancs]

You can buy a paper pass.

Without using the postal service, and not being in a major transport hub, makes this rather difficult for them!

I'm not sure what you mean. What is that check-in? I've never heard of it.

E-tickets now must be "checked-in" before you board the train... Electronic version of validating paper tickets.

 

[Ian99]

E-tickets now must be "checked-in" before you board the train... Electronic version of validating paper tickets.

I've never heard of that - how does one do that?

 

[Lancs]

As promised, the outcome of this - and not using Interrail as that was a hurdle too far!

Fri 15/9:
Regionale 19159: Bagni di Lucca 09:03 -> Pisa Centrale 10:14
Intercity 670: Pisa Centrale -> Milano Centrale 15:53
Hotel

Sat 16/9:
EuroCity 318: Milano Centrale 13:10 -> Zuerich Hb 17:27
IC 60402: Zurich HB 21:59 -> Koln Hbf 05:57 (unfortunately, same timed sleeper full)

Sun 17/9:
ICE 18: Koln Hbf 07:42 -> Bruxelles Midi 09:35
Eurostar 9135: Brussels Midi 12:56 -> London St Pancras Int'l 13:57

Total for 2xseniors £716.95

Thanks for all your help!

 

[peterblue]

The 5:57 start doesn't sound ideal for 2 seniors! I'm glad you have found a solution, though.

 

[rvdborgt]

Are those prices 1st class? I hope so because if it's second, then it's a lot more expensive than with Interrail...

 

[Lancs]

Are those prices 1st class? I hope so because if it's second, then it's a lot more expensive than with Interrail...

First class for Zurich -> Cologne -> Brussels

But, yes we know its more expensive, but we negated the added complexity that it would have entailed. I think we're within £200 of the interrail price with my rough guesswork!