Brockley Whins-Tyne Dock Reinstatement

[ReverendFozz]

Although I dont know a great deal about this, I have snippets of info about it, when this track if fully reinstated is it going to be freight only or is there any plans to run the Metro on it, whch would give another route to South Shields from Pelaw, giving Fellgate a direct Metro link to Shields, also people talk about a direct from Sunderland to Shields, I cant see that being competitive with the bus service out of Park Lane, Go North East run a 10 minute service to Shields taking just over a half hour, Stagecoach Services E1, E2 and E6 are each every 20 minutes combined to about every 6 minutes out of Sunderland which is about 5-10 mins longer than GNE, so on average a bus to Shields from Park Lane goes about every 4 minutes on average at peak times, could Metro achieve a better time than the current bus service, and to compete would Metro have to provide a similar kind of frequency to the Bus Operators?

 

[gordonthemoron]

surely locals aren't that desperate to leave Sunderland?

 

[sprinterguy]

The reinstatement of the east curve at Boldon Colliery, between Boldon East Junction and Green Lane, is purely for freight use, so that freight out of Tyne Dock can be routed down the Durham Coast, avoiding the ECML, without having to run up to Pelaw loop to run round as is the case at present.

While I would like to see a direct Sunderland to South Shields Metro service, this would require expensive electrification and a lot of new track work to support any sort of regular passenger service. Plus there are insufficient Metrocars available to operate such an additional service, unless the frequency on the existing Sunderland or South Shields routes was reduced, as the maximum daily requirement is for 82 out of 90 Metrocars in service. Such a development would have to be tied in with the procurement of new rolling stock for the Metro in about a decade’s time.

 

[142094]

As I understand it, for Nexus this would be the most likely and most feasible reopening. The distance isn't too far and it could provide some useful links for South Shields and Sunderland.

However as sprinterguy says it will most likely be when new stock is introduced. At present there wouldn't be enough to go around the whole system and allow for some out for maintenance if the line was built.

Couple of ideas I had of how it could be used:

- Run trains from South Shields to Sunderland directly
- Run a shuttle service between Tyne Dock and Brockley Whins
- Added benefit that if anything happens between the junnction at Pelaw and Simonside there is an alternative route to Newcastle.

The problem is a lot of new work on the Metro has been quietly shelved in the pat few years, including doubling the line between Hebburn and Jarrow and the whole of Project Orpheus.

 

[ReverendFozz]

When I was going through the Tyne Tunnel a while ago, I saw a freight train on the railway going over the A19 at Jarrow, is that a part of the Curve at Brockley Whins, or is that an area they are trying to avoid...I didnt know that line at Jarrow existed till I saw the train on it

 

[Anon Mouse]

When I was going through the Tyne Tunnel a while ago, I saw a freight train on the railway going over the A19 at Jarrow, is that a part of the Curve at Brockley Whins, or is that an area they are trying to avoid...I didnt know that line at Jarrow existed till I saw the train on it

Its for the oil terminal

 

[142094]

When I was going through the Tyne Tunnel a while ago, I saw a freight train on the railway going over the A19 at Jarrow, is that a part of the Curve at Brockley Whins, or is that an area they are trying to avoid...I didnt know that line at Jarrow existed till I saw the train on it

That's for access to the Shell terminal at Jarrow. Runs as a single line from Pelaw junction all the way to Jarrow. That is the main reason why the Metro is on single track for a large proportion of the time from Pelaw to Bede.

The curve Network Rail are upgrading is just to the east fo Brockley Whins Metro station, which leads onto the line into Tyne Dock (passes over the Metro line at the tunnel between Simonside and Tyne Dock). You can see the rail access to Tyne Dock on the A185/A194 road, and also through Middlefields Industrial Estate.

 

[PinzaC55]

According to Modern Railways magazine the curve is going to be reinstated next month at a cost of £2 million.

 

[sprinterguy]

It would be interesting to know how much that curve originally cost to install in 1985, as a comparison! Does the figure of £2 million include any work to the track on the stretch up to Tyne Dock, or just the curve itself?

 

[spoony]

According to Modern Railways magazine the curve is going to be reinstated next month at a cost of £2 million.

The work looks completed to me and if what they have done has cost them £2m then someones on the fiddle

 

[142094]

I guess a lot of it will be spent on new signalling and the new points (assuming that they can't reuse the old ones). Points can be very expensive to make, especially those fancy ones with the manganese bits.

 

[PinzaC55]

The work looks completed to me and if what they have done has cost them £2m then someones on the fiddle

AFAIK the curve had been disconnected at the Pontop Crossing end so the cost would cover new points and also replacing signals which were formerly controlled by Boldon Colliery box when the line was open. Compared to the £3 million quoted to the Swanage Railway for replacing a ground frame with motor points it sounds cheap?
Also don't forget this is NETWORK RAIL who, if they ran a pub, would charge you £1 million for a pint and only serve you after a feasibility study had been done.

 

[142094]

I think the points are still in place at Pontop Crossing but what condition they are in is anyone's guess.

 

[spoony]

Where abouts is pontop crossing?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Also don't forget this is NETWORK RAIL who, if they ran a pub, would charge you £1 million for a pint and only serve you after a feasibility study had been done.

What an optomist you are!
I would expect to see a 2 year feasability study, yes, but that would lead to a proposal (for consultation, of course) for a scheme to develop a number of possible solutions so that they can be evaluated during the following Control Period. If the successful option receives any more support than comparable schemes at the other ends of the UK, then they may enter a 2-year process to estimate costs. After that, it may (or may not) be brought forward to a list of aspirations, along with all the counter-evidence to support refusal, so that its a balanced document. Any aspirations which happen to pass by a popular but aimless politician will stand an excellent chance of being awarded with a Parliamentary Announcement. That might (and might not) receive some media exposure. If it does, there will be objections, complaints and counter-arguments.
Very rarely, a scheme gets passed all this and is entered into the schedule of works withina Control Period.
Obviously, nothing that appears in Network Rail's work load for the current Control Period is a committment; its an easy target if the governement of the day is facing any relevant issues - by way of example, that might include any slight dip in financial growth.

i.e. no chance

Where abouts is pontop crossing?

Its the crossing between the East-West Newcastle-Sunderland line and the north-south Tyne Dock - Washington lines in Boldon.
(Not to be confused with Pontop as in Pontop Pike where the local TV masts are installed)

 

[PinzaC55]

Where abouts is pontop crossing?

As above it was one of the few remaining flat rail/rail crossings in the country until NCB Boldon Colliery closed in 1982. If you are heading north from East Boldon to Brockley Whins and you look on the left you can see the bridge which carried the Stanhope & Tyne Railway (Tyne Dock to Washington) after it crossed the main line. There was once a sizeable marshalling yard on the east side of Pontop Crossing...all gone now.

 

[spoony]

Thanks for the replies guys. After thinking about this I know exactly where you mean. Did this line run up to the steel works at Consett at one time? would make sense as to why its called Pontop if so!

 

[PinzaC55]

Thanks for the replies guys. After thinking about this I know exactly where you mean. Did this line run up to the steel works at Consett at one time? would make sense as to why its called Pontop if so!

There's a good little history of the Stanhope & Tyne here -
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/stanhope_and_tyne/index.shtml and photos of the stations. Basically it ran from a goods station above Stanhope via Waskerley and Washington to Tyne Dock but the route was changed a lot over the years.

 

[markydh]

The problem is a lot of new work on the Metro has been quietly shelved in the pat few years, including doubling the line between Hebburn and Jarrow and the whole of Project Orpheus.

The line doubling is part of the Metro upgrade that is now in full swing. Rest assured it WILL happen. Project Orpheus has only been put on hold because much of it depended on central government funding that has sadly not been forthcoming.

 

[Jonny]

<truncated>

Its the crossing between the East-West Newcastle-Sunderland line and the north-south Tyne Dock - Washington lines in Boldon.
(Not to be confused with Pontop as in Pontop Pike where the local TV masts are installed)

So-called because there used to be a direct line "Jarrow and Tyne" from Tyne Dock to Consett, which ran over Pontop crossing, then Washington and eventually on to pass around the side of Pontop; the route is now mostly "greenway". IIRC last bits closed after the Consett Steelworks, with the subsequent loss of traffic.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As an aside, what is the second pantograph on a Class 92 for? Would it happen to be Metro-electrification compatible? If so, would the power draw be too much?
This might be an "excuse" to electrify through to Tyne Dock which would make a Metro connection more justifiable in cost terms and have more useful stops (as well as being more reliable, it could pwn (beat) Go North East's services as the railways could do, but fail to).

 

[sprinterguy]

As an aside, what is the second pantograph on a Class 92 for? Would it happen to be Metro-electrification compatible? If so, would the power draw be too much?
This might be an "excuse" to electrify through to Tyne Dock which would make a Metro connection more justifiable in cost terms and have more useful stops (as well as being more reliable, it could pwn (beat) Go North East's services as the railways could do, but fail to).

Both of the pantographs on a class 92 are 25kV AC AFAIK: The locos have built in redundancy as a requirement for working through the tunnel. This actually surprises me, I had thought that one of the two pantographs would be for working off the 1.5kV DC supply prevalent in France, in the same way as classes 81 to 85 originally had a 25kV pantograph and a 6.25kV one.

I imagine that a class 92 drawing juice from the overhead on the Metro, if a 1.5kV DC pantograph was fitted, would require a clear electrical section all to itself, or any Metrocar in the area would simply stop dead.

 

[142094]

The line doubling is part of the Metro upgrade that is now in full swing. Rest assured it WILL happen. Project Orpheus has only been put on hold because much of it depended on central government funding that has sadly not been forthcoming.

This was planned and was supposed to be introduced years ago. At the time they had veen started to cut down the vergetation between Hebburn and Jarrow, and had delivered new ballast and some track sections.

 

[blue sabre]

This was planned and was supposed to be introduced years ago. At the time they had veen started to cut down the vergetation between Hebburn and Jarrow, and had delivered new ballast and some track sections.

The NR line to Shell was realigned by Jarrow Metro a few years ago, made the curve less severe. Is it not that you are thinking of?

 

[142094]

The NR line to Shell was realigned by Jarrow Metro a few years ago, made the curve less severe. Is it not that you are thinking of?

No defiinitely the bit between Hebburn and Jarrow, on the Metro side. Going towards South Shields, there is a footbridge over the line about 30 seconds in from Hebburn, between there and the road bridge just before Jarrow the trees and vegetation on the southern bit of land next to the fence was cut down (must be aat least 5 years or more ago now) and new ballast was dropped off. Think the ballast could still be there but the vegetation has regrown.

 

[blue sabre]

No defiinitely the bit between Hebburn and Jarrow, on the Metro side. Going towards South Shields, there is a footbridge over the line about 30 seconds in from Hebburn, between there and the road bridge just before Jarrow the trees and vegetation on the southern bit of land next to the fence was cut down (must be aat least 5 years or more ago now) and new ballast was dropped off. Think the ballast could still be there but the vegetation has regrown.

Was the vegetation clearance not to do with the housing development on the old paint factory site? Would they need to replace any of the track/ballast? Surely if the other line can handle the oil trains then it can handle metro traffic?

 

[142094]

Was the vegetation clearance not to do with the housing development on the old paint factory site? Would they need to replace any of the track/ballast? Surely if the other line can handle the oil trains then it can handle metro traffic?

Further towards Jarrow than the paint factory site. This bit of land is Metro property, and that's where the new ballast and track sections were dumped.

Not sure about running on the oil line, don't think Metro have running rights on it? From what I read I thought it would have to be a completely new line put in.

 

[blue sabre]

Further towards Jarrow than the paint factory site. This bit of land is Metro property, and that's where the new ballast and track sections were dumped.

Not sure about running on the oil line, don't think Metro have running rights on it? From what I read I thought it would have to be a completely new line put in.

They would have to use that line, there isn't a lot of space for a third alignment along most of the length of the single track. There is the double bridge on High Lane row with houses one on one side and an old peoples home on the other. I can see there being more space as you get closer to Jarrow, but you would need to run either side of the network rail lines which then would mean the oil trains would have to cross over the Metro tracks.

 

[daniel3982]

It would be great to see the Grand Central services running through to South Shields, it'll never happen but we can dream!

 

[PinzaC55]

It would be great to see the Grand Central services running through to South Shields, it'll never happen but we can dream!

That's one of the serious disbenefits of the Metro. While it had the advantage (for me) of reopening part of my local line (Sunderland to Penshaw) it limits the possibilities of "proper" train services at Sunderland and blocks any possibility of the Durham Coast line being electrified.

BTW I quizzed the guy who did the signalling for Sunderland station as to why they hadn't used the original layout of two island platforms and he said it was "for cheapness".

 

[swt_passenger]

BTW I quizzed the guy who did the signalling for Sunderland station as to why they hadn't used the original layout of two island platforms and he said it was "for cheapness".

To be fair when Sunderland direct was on the drawing board the idea of an open access HST operator using the station probably wasn't really foreseen.