Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[RELL6L]

Toby France, Head of Commercial for the area, has posted a very extensive commentary on the changes on the Oxford Chiltern Bus Page (https://www.oxford-chiltern-bus-page.co.uk/Weekly Briefing nr 264 230823.html). In his comments for the 800/850, he states:


I think it reasonable to describe his commentary on this and other issues as stridently defensive, as exhibited by the paragraph directly following the 800/850 excerpt above.


Defensive it may be, but it's nice to see someone step forward and shout about things: I do wish his counterpart in Kent would put his or her head above the parapet similarly, even if it were full of things we don't want to hear!

Interesting. A strange feature to highlight "buses running out of Wycombe every 20 minutes in the morning peak". They run at 6.55, 7.15, 7.35 (SD), 7.40 then not until 8.20 and then 9.00, as now this is not brilliant for school children and shop / office workers coming from Wycombe to Marlow. I would have highlighted that the 800 and 850 will swap routes at Reading, which should improve the reliability of the 850. The evening service to Reading is good news but there are other gaps where the service could be better. Normally journeys take 15 minutes from Reading to Caversham Park but the schoolday journey at 15.45 does it in 8 minutes - really? It is an X80 - does it miss out Caversham? There's an implication that the routes could be predominantly double deck, that would be great but High Wycombe would need several more deckers to achieve that, there have been very few here for years.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It would indeed be very interesting to hear a few home truths, likeable or otherwise from ops directors in other areas

 

[markymark2000]

I agree, it's always good hearing reasons for changes. Sadly too many management these days hide away from the public.

One thing I ask though as I can't see it mentioned, how many of these improvements are led by Arriva commercially and how much is funded by the council themselves or via bus service improvement funding?

 

[Snex]

Yeah, the 57/57A have got busier between Cramlington and Whitley Bay too - I think coinciding with GNE losing the 19 to Gateshead Central Taxis who are completely incompetent.

In fairness, the GCT 19 is a hell of a lot more reliable than the 57/57A which is constantly delayed lately, if they bother to turn up at all as the Solo's like a good break down and from local experience I'd say numbers are slightly up aswell.

GCT have been generally alright on it and at the end of the day it's got much newer buses on it, ironically the same type which were on the 57/57A before they were took away. That, the Durham Park and Rides, 67/69 in Gateshead and the X46 in Gosforth they've been generally running alright, everything else is a bit of a mixed bag though mind.

 

[RELL6L]

I have just looked in at Wycombe for sign of any new deckers. E400 5457 was there, previously at Aylesbury. In the naughty corner were withdrawn 3923 and 4217, also 3013, a 12-plate Citaro, surely too young to be scrapped (no obvious accident damage), and E300 KX09GZE which shows as 3580 but actually says it is 3570, a type unfamiliar to Wycombe. I also noted 3741, the one/off DAF SB200 here, which was odd because it was tracking on the 800…. So I checked this and actually on the 800 it was 5458, a second E400. So two E400s arrived from Aylesbury to add to the three Volvo B9TLs (one looking very ill) and single DAF DB250/Pulsar Gemini. The town services a mix of Citaros and Versas, there’s also a Versa on the 800. Arriva Max premium brand is well and truly gone! As I recall Wycombe had a Trident or two for the 800 for just a few days some years ago, I think trees put paid to that, now clearly resolved. I wait with interest to see which workings fall to the new deckers.

 

[Tetchytyke]

think coinciding with GNE losing the 19 to Gateshead Central Taxis who are completely incompetent.

There’s no way on God’s Green Earth that they can be more unreliable than Go North East’s operation of the 19.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2023 ==

Northumbria not being a great area for them simply isn't true, there are several lucrative corridors (most of which won't be impacted by the railway, either) and many routes are now seeing higher passenger numbers now than they were pre-2020.

The £2 fares will be assisting them greatly with loadings their core routes: Blyth/Ashington/Morpeth to Newcastle.

Beyond that, Arriva’s presence is thin and getting thinner. Ashington-Blyth and Blyth-Morpeth used to be frequent and heavily loaded, but both are down to 2bph now.

 

[MB1]

The £2 fares will be assisting them greatly with loadings their core routes: Blyth/Ashington/Morpeth to Newcastle.

Beyond that, Arriva’s presence is thin and getting thinner. Ashington-Blyth and Blyth-Morpeth used to be frequent and heavily loaded, but both are down to 2bph now.

The £2 fares are assisting, but the loadings were healthy even before their introduction.

The Ashington to Blyth and Blyth to Morpeth routes used to be 3bph with minibuses, they were changed during Covid to use conventional vehicles on a 2bph frequency. It's a minimal difference in seats per hour as I believe the Solo's seated 31, so that would be 93 seats per hour vs the current 88 per hour on Pulsars. If you compare it to the MPDs which went before, it's an increase of 1 seat per hour.

Both the 1 & 2 are still heavily loaded, and more importantly both have multiple different passenger flows that ensure the bus remains relatively busy throughout the trip.

 

[Mwanesh]

Toby France, Head of Commercial for the area, has posted a very extensive commentary on the changes on the Oxford Chiltern Bus Page (https://www.oxford-chiltern-bus-page.co.uk/Weekly Briefing nr 264 230823.html). In his comments for the 800/850, he states:


I think it reasonable to describe his commentary on this and other issues as stridently defensive, as exhibited by the paragraph directly following the 800/850 excerpt above.


Defensive it may be, but it's nice to see someone step forward and shout about things: I do wish his counterpart in Kent would put his or her head above the parapet similarly, even if it were full of things we don't want to hear!

Toby France normally responds to queries. He has had a good exchange with the enthusiast at times. He does not shy away from negative comments.

 

[markymark2000]

Toby France normally responds to queries. He has had a good exchange with the enthusiast at times. He does not shy away from negative comments.

Very rare to see a manager active engaging with both good and bad. The only other manager they I've seen do that is Simon Dunn from Diamond and there was an Arriva Midlands manager but they stopped it for some reason.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Electroliners for Leicester have started being delivered.
Fleet code shown in the below link is 8000, and carries BK23LUO

https://twitter.com/gnikttam/status/1698770159631061147?s=20

We're about to go ELECTRIC. The first of our brand new Wright Electroliners has landed. Coming to Leicester's streets later this Autumn

 

[GusB]

Electroliners for Leicester have started being delivered.
Fleet code shown in the below link is 8000, and carries BK23LUO

https://twitter.com/gnikttam/status/1698770159631061147?s=20

Is this from an official source, rather than someone random on Twitter?

 

[SSmith2009]

Is this from an official source, rather than someone random on Twitter?

Matt King is the network manager of Arriva Midlands.

8000 is the first of 24 due at Thurmaston depot

 

[darloscott]

Is this from an official source, rather than someone random on Twitter?

Matt’s a network manager for Arriva Midlands so it’s an official source

 

[duncombec]

The attached image was posted on Facebook this evening.

Employee Notice

Ash Grove Garage

It is with regret that I must advise we have made the difficult decision to vacate Ash Grove garage as route 78 transfers to Go Ahead at the beginning of December, and route 254 will therefore be relocated.

The decision to vacate Ash Grove is part of an overall cost review to help Arriva remain competitive in the light of inflationary cost pressures.

The proposed reallocation is to relocate route 254 so it will operate fully out of Clapton as we have space available.

We advised your trade union representatives of our plan at a meeting earlier today and we will commence formal consultation as soon as possible.

Our aim is to vacate Ash Grove by the end of January 2024.

We recognise that this is a challenging time for affected colleagues. Should you have any immediate concerns, please speak with your manager.

[signature]
Marcos Hart

Managing Director
Arriva London

4 September 2023

 

[GusB]

Matt’s a network manager for Arriva Midlands so it’s an official source

Fair enough. It would be helpful if people could make such facts clear when posting.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Hope this is ok to post as it is just gossip from a couple of drivers, but apparently there's a whole pile of x London Enviros being cascaded to various provinces in the next little while, unclear if they have had single door conversion or continue to operate in TFL configuration but should at least help to bring the fleet age of some double deck roots down slightly and increase decker availability in some areas, if indeed any of it is true. Must stress this is just gossip from two drivers who I was chatting with the other day whilst sheltering from the rain

 

[Simon75]

The attached image was posted on Facebook this evening.

Isn't Ash Grove shared by another operator?

 

[Surreyman]

Isn't Ash Grove shared by another operator?

Yes Stagecoach, who will now have to shoulder all the costs presumably (I don't know how this fully operates in practice, Ash Grove is leased from Tfl) Might be an incentive for Stagecoach to base more operations at Ash Grove.

 

[MotCO]

Hope this is ok to post as it is just gossip from a couple of drivers, but apparently there's a whole pile of x London Enviros being cascaded to various provinces in the next little while, unclear if they have had single door conversion or continue to operate in TFL configuration but should at least help to bring the fleet age of some double deck roots down slightly and increase decker availability in some areas, if indeed any of it is true. Must stress this is just gossip from two drivers who I was chatting with the other day whilst sheltering from the rain

Maybe this is as a result of route 78 being lost (see post 1785)

 

[Goldfish62]

Maybe this is as a result of route 78 being lost (see post 1785)

And there's new buses going into Thornton Heath, plus the 133 and 333 at Brixton have been lost.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This would make sense then, I'm not familiar with vehicle allocations on the lost services but I do seem to recall that there was a fairly large ADL bias in the fleet at Thornton heath which is presumably the one that's being referred to for replacement

 

[pm2304877]

Arriva Midlands are taking delivery of 24 Wrightbus Electroliners. I wish them luck as outside London Arriva's experience with eco buses has been less than successful .

I have read that the MAN EcoCity fleets at Runcorn and Darlington are being stood down (some are only 6 years old). Liverpool Green Lane have a dozen BYD single decks, more often out of service than in. The hybrid double deckers are still active but with problems, and the 20 hydrogen ADLs delivered to Merseytravel but split between Arriva and Stagecoach have only been out on test runs.

Forgive my ignorance but isn't hydrogen a high explosive? Local authorities in the area are worried about hydrogen tanks at bus depots. Now OK my doubts are fuelled (no pun) by the Hindenburg airship which burst into flames on landing in the USA in the 1930s. The buses may be safe but the hydrogen tanks?
Obviously diesel is to be phased out but I wonder whether or not the bus industry should focus on ONE type of power unit be they hybrid or battery and not gas or hydrogen?

Another problem is catering for eco buses in penny numbers dotted around the country. Only London appears to be equipped with charging facilities , other cities are getting them but it looks as if diesel will be the only option in Liverpool at least as the 20 hydro buses are raising cost concerns as they are coming up to their first anniversary without having run many passenger trips yet .I hope Leicester's WB Electroliners are a success as Arriva doesn't want another batch of city buses which are half off the road.

The Runcorn MANs are being replaced by 15 year old VDL SB200 Pulsars. So much for eco buses of the future!

Source:
THE Merseyside Dennis Dart website and the Quack77 buslists.uk website.

.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Arriva Midlands are taking delivery of 24 Wrightbus Electroliners. I wish them luck as outside London Arriva's experience with eco buses has been less than successful .

I have read that the MAN EcoCity fleets at Runcorn and Darlington are being stood down (some are only 6 years old). Liverpool Green Lane have a dozen BYD single decks, more often out of service than in. The hybrid double deckers are still active but with problems, and the 20 hydrogen ADLs delivered to Merseytravel but split between Arriva and Stagecoach have only been out on test runs.

Forgive my ignorance but isn't hydrogen a high explosive? Local authorities in the area are worried about hydrogen tanks at bus depots. Now OK my doubts are fuelled (no pun) by the Hindenburg airship which burst into flames on landing in the USA in the 1930s. The buses may be safe but the hydrogen tanks?
Obviously diesel is to be phased out but I wonder whether or not the bus industry should focus on ONE type of power unit be they hybrid or battery and not gas or hydrogen?

Another problem is catering for eco buses in penny numbers dotted around the country. Only London appears to be equipped with charging facilities , other cities are getting them but it looks as if diesel will be the only option in Liverpool at least as the 20 hydro buses are raising cost concerns as they are coming up to their first anniversary without having run many passenger trips yet .I hope Leicester's WB Electroliners are a success as Arriva doesn't want another batch of city buses which are half off the road.

The Runcorn MANs are being replaced by 15 year old VDL SB200 Pulsars. So much for eco buses of the future!

The EcoCity vehicles (and the similar e300 with Stagecoach) are pretty reliable. However, the economics of them just aren't stacking up at the moment. It's different to the hybrid vehicles that have now been largely withdrawn or repowered as the batteries die. We do need to remember that these were emerging alternatives and it's not surprising that the technology has either improved or been superceded.

As for hydrogen and the Hindenburg, this article might be of interest https://www.computerworld.com/artic...gen-fueled-cars-arent-little-hindenburgs.html - in short, hydrogen tends to disperse readily into the atmosphere, and the tanks are tested to extremes in any case. The Hindenburg was, unfortunately, lacquered and hence it went up.

 

[Volvodart]

in short, hydrogen tends to disperse readily into the atmosphere, and the tanks are tested to extremes in any case. The Hindenburg was, unfortunately, lacquered and hence it went up.

When the Aberdeen ones were going back to Wrightbus, the hydrogen in the tanks was released into the air before they set off for the ferry.

 

[Statto]

Caught the 5 Llandudno to Bangor yesterday, reliability on the 5, 5D, & 5C is awful, buses are reguly late, often running in pairs & this is a service that's every 20 minutes over common sections, that i think the whole 5, 5C, 5D route should be split at Bangor (i know the registration is split at Bangor & buses operate through) rather than operating through, & changing numbers in Bangor

On another note, changes to Chester & North Wales services from 23rd September,

Chester - Blacon circulars are being renumbered to 14, 14A, & Stagecoach are renumbering there Blacon circulars to 14, 14A too, this is because of so many no 1s in Chester.

Biggest change is to the Bangor - Holyhead (the 4 group of services) buses renumbered mostly to 4, 4A, 4L, & Llangefni to Holyhead frequency reduced to hourly

Latest News - Arriva UK Bus

www.arrivabus.co.uk

 

[sk688]

Now that ULEZ has been expanded across London , I wonder whether routes such as the 508 will be chopped back to run purely within Herts

 

[Goldfish62]

Now that ULEZ has been expanded across London , I wonder whether routes such as the 508 will be chopped back to run purely within Herts

ULEZ expansion has no impact on buses and coaches. They already had to comply with the same standards under LEZ.

 

[Llandudno]

Caught the 5 Llandudno to Bangor yesterday, reliability on the 5, 5D, & 5C is awful, buses are reguly late, often running in pairs & this is a service that's every 20 minutes over common sections, that i think the whole 5, 5C, 5D route should be split at Bangor (i know the registration is split at Bangor & buses operate through) rather than operating through, & changing numbers in Bangor

On another note, changes to Chester & North Wales services from 23rd September,

Chester - Blacon circulars are being renumbered to 14, 14A, & Stagecoach are renumbering there Blacon circulars to 14, 14A too, this is because of so many no 1s in Chester.

Biggest change is to the Bangor - Holyhead (the 4 group of services) buses renumbered mostly to 4, 4A, 4L, & Llangefni to Holyhead frequency reduced to hourly

Latest News - Arriva UK Bus

www.arrivabus.co.uk

Timekeeping and reliability on the 5 group of services is notoriously poor, it was less of an issue pre Covid when the combined frequency was every 15 minutes, formed of a half hourly 5 and a half hourly 5D (previously numbered X5) which meant if (when) services were disrupted you just waited for the next bus.

With the current combined 20 minute headway, the 5 runs on a 20/40 frequency and the 5D hourly, so if there is disruption or buses missing you could potentially wait up an hour for the next 5D or 40 minutes for a 5!

Sometimes the delays to the 5/5D routes are due to excessive patronage, it takes a while to board and alight as tourists ask lots of questions of the drivers mainly because there is no publicity/timetables at any bus stops en-route and there are no timetable leaflets, route maps or marketing leaflets available.

There is, of course, the Arriva website……! LOL!

 

[Man of Kent]

Now that ULEZ has been expanded across London , I wonder whether routes such as the 508 will be chopped back to run purely within Herts

Do Arriva run anything across the London boundary other than the 724 (Harlow-Heathrow) and 477 (Dartford-Orpington)?

 

[Edvid]

Do Arriva run anything across the London boundary other than the 724 (Harlow-Heathrow) and 477 (Dartford-Orpington)?

Does the 757 (Luton - London) count?