Class 465 and 466 set for storage/scrap: possible uses for them in future?

[Stephen42]

Do you what diagram on RTT this was? I've tried searching but can't find anything that fits.

Quoted elsewhere as this one 5Q72 0900 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Wembley Receptions 1-7

 

[brad465]

Quoted elsewhere as this one 5Q72 0900 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Thank you, and thanks to that I've now found this diagram tomorrow where the unit carries onto Gillingham:

Realtime Trains | 5Q89 0825 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Gillingham E.M.U.D. | 20/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q89 0825 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Gillingham E.M.U.D. on 20/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[gmaguire]

I'm sure I saw 929 in service very recently.

Same.

 

[The_Train]

Thank you, and thanks to that I've now found this diagram tomorrow where the unit carries onto Gillingham:

Realtime Trains | 5Q89 0825 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Gillingham E.M.U.D. | 20/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q89 0825 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Gillingham E.M.U.D. on 20/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I did wonder why it went to Wembley but this explains that now. Is this a return to service for this unit then?

 

[brad465]

I did wonder why it went to Wembley but this explains that now. Is this a return to service for this unit then?

I would have thought so, I can't see why a unit not needed/fit for service would be sent halfway across the country back to its operating turf.

 

[The_Train]

I would have thought so, I can't see why a unit not needed/fit for service would be sent halfway across the country back to its operating turf.

This is the UK railway system we are talking about

Either way, seen photo's of it on the move from Wembley today!

 

[CFRAIL]

Once the 707s arrive in full, there's no excuse to not have a proper refurb scheme on the Networkers and 376s.

I believe there's a 376 refurbishment plan for next year...

 

[SolomonSouth]

I believe there's a 376 refurbishment plan for next year...

Yes, it was announced in April 2022. I believe it is hinging on the rest of the 707s coming over which in turn is hinging on the 701s being reliable/ready for service...

 

[LUYMun]

Seen a 465 being hauled by a 66 not far from Hertford North right now, currently as 5Q89:

Realtime Trains | 5Q89 1130 Slade Green T&R.S.M.D to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 12/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q89 1130 departure from Slade Green T&R.S.M.D to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 12/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[brad465]

Seen a 465 being hauled by a 66 not far from Hertford North right now, currently as 5Q89:

Realtime Trains | 5Q89 1130 Slade Green T&R.S.M.D to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 12/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q89 1130 departure from Slade Green T&R.S.M.D to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 12/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

If it's going to Doncaster then this will presumably be on a scheduled maintenance visit.

 

[warwickshire]

1245 Gillingham emud to Worksop up Receptions 37884 and 465918 as reported on The old live rail website. Due to 707 now transferring from Swr to Set is it possible 4659 are now going into store and how many if known? Or is at Worksop awaiting a refurbished move due to Doncaster. Or due to condition has 465918 now finished on Set, hence into store???

 

[brad465]

Don't know what the specific update in waiting is, but I suspect it has something to do with the below diagram seeing 466033 and 465918 going to Worksop today:

Realtime Trains | 5Q26 1245 Gillingham E.M.U.D. to Worksop Up Receptions | 04/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q26 1245 departure from Gillingham E.M.U.D. to Worksop Up Receptions on 04/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[SolomonSouth]

Due to 707 now transferring from Swr to Set is it possible 4659 are now going into store and how many if known? Or is at Worksop awaiting a refurbished move due to Doncaster. Or due to condition has 465918 now finished on Set, hence into store???

How do we know it is only /9s being stored? The BRELS have lower mechanical reliability according to the reliability tables.

 

[warwickshire]

How do we know it is only /9s being stored? The BRELS have lower mechanical reliability according to the reliability tables.

Either way, possible others are going, but how many, and which? However possibly looking so, and maybe the case, due to 707 arriving like what occurred with the 4652s, possible once more a certain number is going to be stored due to the latest batch of 707s. Anybody else kindly know what is rumoured to be be, moving next please, in maybe the not to distant future if any information is available elsewhere thank you.

 

[Stephen42]

How do we know it is only /9s being stored? The BRELS have lower mechanical reliability according to the reliability tables.

There isn't a huge difference in the reliability and the /9s are owned by Angel Trains who also own the 707s. The commercial arrangements are not public, the 465/2s are leased with a note in the contract not to be used for passenger services. It's plausible that some discount was arranged for any trains stood down due to being replaced by the newer 707s as part of the deal to take on the 707s.

 

[MML]

Would it be possible for the intermediate carriages of 465 stock to be used to lengthen 2-car and 3-car class 165 and 166 DMUs?
Making 3-car and 4-car units Turbos for GWR and Chiltern?
I believe they have the same body shell but will no doubt have different fixtures.

 

[lumitumey12345]

Would it be possible for the intermediate carriages of 465 stock to be used to lengthen 2-car and 3-car class 165 and 166 DMUs?
Making 3-car and 4-car units Turbos for GWR and Chiltern?
I believe they have the same body shell but will no doubt have different fixtures.

There was a plan to do that but with 365 intermediate carriages.

 

[Mikey C]

Would it be possible for the intermediate carriages of 465 stock to be used to lengthen 2-car and 3-car class 165 and 166 DMUs?
Making 3-car and 4-car units Turbos for GWR and Chiltern?
I believe they have the same body shell but will no doubt have different fixtures.

They're different lengths though (20m vs 23m) and wouldn't they be a bit slow with an extra trailer to lug around?

 

[JonathanH]

They're different lengths though (20m vs 23m) and wouldn't they be a bit slow with an extra trailer to lug around?

The plan only worked with a retractioning exercise, which hasn't happened. The 20m vs 23m length doesn't appear to have been an issue.

There was a plan to do that but with 365 intermediate carriages.

It was 465 carriages, as there was common ownership. Mixing Angel Trains 165 coaches with 365 coaches owned by Eversholt wasn't going to happen.

There is conclusive commentary on that here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hydrive-165-project.223818/#post-5411953

 

[brad465]

I'm guessing the transfer of some 377/5s back to Southern has been cancelled, or still postponed indefinitely, as there was a time where the plan was that half of them would go to Southern when the remaining 707s came over to SE, but 701 rollout delays led to a postponement.

 

[warwickshire]

I'm guessing the transfer of some 377/5s back to Southern has been cancelled, or still postponed indefinitely, as there was a time where the plan was that half of them would go to Southern when the remaining 707s came over to SE, but 701 rollout delays led to a postponement.

Maybe they are staying and could be so, instead a certain number of 465/466 into store instead to save money, whilst Southern on some services will just suffer overcrowding, wouldn't Surprise me or be surprised if this is the case with Dft in charge and South Eastern olr anyway.
What else with their current form they could possibly alter or change.

 

[Class 466]

I'm guessing the transfer of some 377/5s back to Southern has been cancelled, or still postponed indefinitely, as there was a time where the plan was that half of them would go to Southern when the remaining 707s came over to SE, but 701 rollout delays led to a postponement.

Given 377501 is the first to be repainted into SE livery and I believe refreshed inside, I think it's safe to assume they're staying on SE now.

 

[brad465]

Given 377501 is the first to be repainted into SE livery and I believe refreshed inside, I think it's safe to assume they're staying on SE now.

Good to see they are getting attention, the interior comparison between 377s and 375s was/is stark. As for moving/not moving them, given there are only 23 377/5s, it makes sense that an all or nothing approach is achieved, moving half of them doesn't really make sense.

 

[Doomotron]

Given 377501 is the first to be repainted into SE livery and I believe refreshed inside, I think it's safe to assume they're staying on SE now.

Into SE colours inside or refreshed like the Southern units?

 

[MML]

Well using the intermediate TSO to extend 2-car class 165 might help GWR alleviate their stock shortage and overcrowding. Lengthening the Turbos could fill the shortfall now the 769s are no longer available.

 

[JonathanH]

Well using the intermediate TSO to extend 2-car class 165 might help GWR alleviate their stock shortage and overcrowding. Lengthening the Turbos could fill the shortfall now the 769s are no longer available.

Yes, but it isn't going to happen because there is no viable way to provide more power for the weight of an extra coach.

 

[warwickshire]

5Q26 1201 Gillingham Emud to Worksop up Receptions another move today Thursday 07th September 2023. Does Anyone know the numbers for this move please today of what is going into storage?
Obviously some are leaving the toc for storage.

 

[brad465]

5Q26 1201 Gillingham Emud to Worksop up Receptions another move today Thursday 07th September 2023. Does Anyone know the numbers for this move please today of what is going into storage?
Obviously some are leaving the toc for storage.

I don't know what units were involved today, although according to the video description in this video that captured the first move this week, 10x 465/9s and 10x 466s are due to go in total, which would make sense as this totals 60 carriages, the same number that comprises the remaining 12x 707s coming over. I believe this leaves 24x 465/9s and 27-28x 466s, when considering the first units that went into storage.

EDIT: According to this link it was 465905 and 466013.

 

[Class 466]

I don't know what units were involved today, although according to the video description in this video that captured the first move this week, 10x 465/9s and 10x 466s are due to go in total, which would make sense as this totals 60 carriages, the same number that comprises the remaining 12x 707s coming over. I believe this leaves 24x 465/9s and 27-28x 466s, when considering the first units that went into storage.

I’ve seen the list of units going - it’s 12 moves in total - each a 6 car 465 + 466

 

[brad465]

I’ve seen the list of units going - it’s 12 moves in total - each a 6 car 465 + 466

Thanks for confirming. Is there a particular reason they are moving them like that, rather than making 8 car moves (I'm sure there was at least one move in 2021 that was a 465 and 2x 466s)? It would reduce the number of workings required, but I don't decide this obviously.