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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
- Thread starter MattA7
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RailUK Forums
A good second hand small car, like my Yaris can be had for less than £5K.
I suspect that it will be a long time before I can buy a useful second hand EV within that budget.
There are EVs for around £5k now. Limited range (80-100 miles) and not the fastest charging, but still in good condition and with batteries likely to last many more years. Fine for a runaround, short commutes, shopping runs or whatever.
A lot of EVs that have or are coming out of lease agreements are going up for sale for big discounts - as in a £30-35k car going up sale for £15k and with pretty low mileage (and of course, the wear and tear on an EV is going to be a lot less).
I think you'd be buying a car for £5k, but a lot of people looking to finance would be looking around the £10-15k mark. It will be interesting to see what the prices of 3 year old MG4s will be, as they could be £10-15k and still have loads of warranty left.
Auto trader comes up with 52 electric vehicles under £5k nationwide. Most of which are Nissan Leafs. So you’ll be lucky to get 50 miles range out of it. (I’ve mentioned previously on this forum about my work having a Nissan electric van which can barely make it from Oxford to Slough on a full charge).
GM and SAIC are very much affiliated. SAIC make all GMs cars in China. The current MG and Roewe petrol models are powered by GM\Opel engines instead of SAICs own NSE 1.5 engine.
Fair enough, double-checked and the engines are GM/SAIC.
However given statistical there's 8 trips a year made by people which are over 50 miles there's still plenty of people for whom such a range limit wouldn't be an issue, especially if the vehicle is a second (or third) car in a household.
Anyone aiming to run a car for anything less than about £2,000 a year (where the average is over £3,500) is likely only doing so by keeping their milage low (those figures include purchase price). As such they are likely to be doing comfortably below 8,000 miles a year (8,000 miles is 38 miles per working day, assuming 5 days a week and typical leave allowances, and zero other travel).
Whilst that would require charging every night and it's using 76% of a 50 miles range; it's likely that they would actually get used less than this so wouldn't be an issue.
While you are sacrificing flexibility when compared to a low cost ICE, you are likely to save money and quite likely have a vehicle which doesn't need replacing as frequently. For some the flexibility isn't of value, for others not having it will be a deal breaker, many will be somewhere along that line. It's certainly not something which will work for everyone, but it doesn't need to.
As more EV's get to that sort of age the standard of EV for that price point will generally improve over what's currently available (5 years ago there were far fewer EV's than there's are now). Whilst it's hard to know what it will look like in 7 years time it's also true that things will be better for buying cheaper EV's than it currently is.
The relationships between the OEMs and their Chinese joint ventures is complicated. In SAICs case their own brand (MG\Roewe) cars have gone through three generations, MG Rover copies, Self designed but MG Rover inspired with use of UK technical centre of ex MG Rover and Riccardo staff, Self designed \GM related cars after GM opened up its R&D cupboard.
If someone needs to make eight trips a year which exceed fifty mile then a vehicle with a range is not a suitable choice. Simples.
Makng assesment based on averages and ignoring the outliers is nonsense. I buy on average one bottle of wine per week. But if I was restricted to that it would ruin my Christmas and Birthday parties.
GusB
Established Member
However, there will be other cars with ranges that are suitable. There is no one-size-fits-all solution, and that can also be said for vehicles with internal combustion engines!
Best buy a van then in case you need to move a couch once every few years*.
Why would you buy a vehicle for maybe 8 trips (and I suspect for many people it might be one or two, like a summer holiday or other short break) when you can have a vehicle that works for 99% of your needs and for that 1% you either hire a bigger car, use public transport and/or a taxi, or just plan to charge it as needed to extend the range you can do in a day.
My current car has a range of 300-400 miles and is petrol. Many small cars have small fuel tanks and are probably not far off the same, and may even dip below 300 miles in the real world through lots of short journeys where the engine never fully warms up. Ironically, EVs work better in such circumstances - which is more 'real world' for most motorists.
It's funny that people still think a car that can only do 250-260 miles is way too low, even though few people would ever do that in a single day.
* I suspect this is precisely why people convince themselves they need a giant SUV for those rare occasions they might benefit from owning one. And they gladly pay hundreds or thousands more for that 'freedom'. Obviously it's a free country and people can do what they want, but it doesn't mean people make sensible decisions (and that's probably even more so when it comes to cars which for many is a status symbol).
renegademaster
Established Member
The worn down nissan leafs aren't a good solution for almost anyone. Almost nobody *never* takes a journey over 50miles at least once a year, ans if your are you going to have rent a car every couple of months you'll undo the minor savings from fuel. You might as well just buy a banger small hatchback for a grand
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Rentals are relatively expensive , plus looking at the hours of my local enterprise, inconvenient too. It's £200 for a large car , if I'm doing that 8 times year that's almost 2 grand
I think the 8 times a year was just an picked out of thin air example, not to be taken that literally. I agree car hire is not cheap, but there are per-hour rentals for vans that would suffice for a trip to Ikea, if it isn't actually cheaper to just pay for it to be delivered. Now there's a collection point for Ikea that's a 5 minute drive, so I could hire a van for just one hour if needed. Again, a very specific example but one that might be similar for others needing a bigger vehicle once or twice.
And the Leaf someone bought recently for £4400 does 80 miles a day, which is about 60 miles more than I do on most days. For things like football training, I might do nearer 40-45 miles. Again, all fine as long as I remember to charge when I get home like a mobile!
The reason I'm not buying one is because I hate the look of the early Leaf! I am not however put off getting a car with a small battery, although as I've said before I would want fast charging so it can do longer trips without really long waits. Currently many small EVs are slow to charge (well, relatively speaking given there's less to charge) but that will change and there are exceptions.
And the Leaf someone bought recently for £4400 does 80 miles a day, which is about 60 miles more than I do on most days. For things like football training, I might do nearer 40-45 miles. Again, all fine as long as I remember to charge when I get home like a mobile!
The reason I'm not buying one is because I hate the look of the early Leaf! I am not however put off getting a car with a small battery, although as I've said before I would want fast charging so it can do longer trips without really long waits. Currently many small EVs are slow to charge (well, relatively speaking given there's less to charge) but that will change and there are exceptions.
I have never in my three quarter century of life needed to shift a sofa.
But if was sofa shifting eight times a year I would buy a suitable vehicle
I have often travelled several hundred miles in a day. And recharging ICE is far simpler and quicker than an EV
And 66 pages in, we're back to the same tired arguments against EVs. Needing to drive 250 miles a day, no time to stop and charge.
Want to warn everyone that the batteries will die after 5 years and cost £15k to replace?
(and I've never moved a sofa in my life - but it was just an example of why someone might want a larger vehicle but doesn't need to own one just for those rare occasions).
Want to warn everyone that the batteries will die after 5 years and cost £15k to replace?
(and I've never moved a sofa in my life - but it was just an example of why someone might want a larger vehicle but doesn't need to own one just for those rare occasions).
Really it isn't though. I plug my Tesla in and walk away (literally, no faffing with an app or payment cards).
I only need to charge after about 250 miles at motorway speeds. I need to stop to make myself comfortable way before then. By the time I've done that and walked back to the car, it's ready for another 250 miles.
No way I'd want to go back to standing at a pump for 5 minutes then queue to pay etc and then have diesel on my hands for the rest of the day. But each to his own.
Five minutes? How big was you tank?
Pay at pump avoids queuing and I never get diesel on my hands.
And what about all those out there who can't afford a top of the line Tesla? Is there a a slick fast charging network out there for all the Leaf or MG ZS owners?
Yes. Ionity, Gridserve, Instavolt, Osprey etc
No app or payment card required?
Depends on the operator, most rapid chargers* just require a contactless card. Zap-Map can show you all the details.
Some also give better pricing if you subscribe to them though this is only really worth it if you are frequently doing long journeys (200+ miles round trip) which for the vast majority of people are only a couple times a year.
*some slow chargers do require an app but these are intended to be used for local charging for people who don't have off street charging, not for someone stopping by. Gridserve AC chargers do take contactless so check Zap-Map if you need more information.
I already new the answer to my question. I was trying to highlight that the seamless experience someone may experience with a top of the line Tesla, industry leading range, extensive fast charger network integrated to car maybe somewhat at odds to someone owning a more affordable EV.
Fair enough, the range is actually pretty good on most manufacturers now with most being well over 200 miles and some over 300. 3rd party charging networks are ok, most just have too few and are awaiting upgraded grid connections.
Of course you’ll also be aware that the Tesla supercharger network is in the process of being opened up and available to all electric cars.
I am but as with everything with Tesla it isn't quite as straightforward as the announcements make out.
I believe Ionity and some of the others now do support "plug and charge". You register your car with them and that's that. I haven't looked into it because I don't need to.
Tesla is a bit of a meh car if you ask me. I really wanted a BMW i4 but it was just a little too expensive and the Supercharger network is waay cheaper than the others, and as you say is seamlessly integrated, so that swung it.
It is though. I've charged our Kia at Superchargers. Rock up, open Tesla app, tap "Charge my non-Tesla", tell it which stall you're at, plug in, tap "start charge".
PnC requires both a PnC enabled car and charger. Both are slowly becoming more prevalent over time, but the infrastructure for securing that network hasn't been around all that long. In the mean time legislation about having a debit/credit card terminal on all new chargers is brewing also.
Then you must be the exception, but laws and taxation decisions are made for the majority, in this case to try and reduce the massive contribution that IC engined traffic to air pollution and raising CO2 levels. Those that can't find a way of going about their business without IC engined vehicles will soon have to modify their driving habits.
It's a shame the legislation doesn't require receipt printers too. It's a right faff to get receipts from many of these networks. Fortunately I no longer need to.