Begging getting more common on the railway?

[trebor79]

Apologies for what will be a dumb question to all you well informed 'local yokels', but what do 'tissue seller' beggars do? That is, what's their modus operandi?

Sell packets of tissues, presumably at a cost far greater than they acquired them. Basically wander up to you offering to sell you tissues. I first saw it in Spain about 10 years ago where they would walk down stationary traffic at junctions knocking on windows and displaying their tissues.

 

[thomalex]

Used to happen fairly often on the Victoria line when I used to commute a few years ago, was usually the same man as well. Used to walk through all the doors at pace when the train was moving which gave you a bit of a surprise when someone bursts through them, pretty dangerous really.

I must admit now commuting using the District line heading in and out of central from the west I don’t see it as much.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Many years ago on Victoria SC concurse (probably >20 years ago as in the days of slammers) a gent asked me for money so he could get to Portsmouth. He was Royal Navy and had lost his kit bag but was desperate to get to Portsmouth before he got into trouble. I gave him a fiver iirc.

A few weeks later on the way into Victoria on a train I heard exactly the same story coming from the bay of seats behind me.

One Summer years ago while waiting for my mother who was singing in the Festival Hall I was watching the world go by (465s and 466s I suspect). I was overlooking the CX lines near where the elevated walkway passes under the railway on its route vie the Shell building to Waterloo. I was there for hours and there was always a beggar at the top of the steps. I watched then as a team taking turns roughly every hour. They would turn up looking relatively smart then pull out a tatty pair of trousers and top put them over their smart clothes and sit down. They were getting quite a lot of coins.

I now never give to beggars. I prefer to donate to Charities.

A lot of down and outs don't beg apparently. I used to see a very rough looking guy near East Croydon. We used to get him some food and he never said a word - was usually sheltering in a recessed doorway vaguely out of sight.

There are a significant number who find begging an easy way to get a lot of money. Suppose someone gives a beggar £1 every two minutes - that is £30 per hour. Tax free.

Back to the OP - yes I am really noticing since Covid that there are more beggars on the Thameslink core. Probably because there are fewer passengers in the way or policing has been cut back on ?.

Not sure I have noticed begging on the shiny new Elizabeth line.

 

[Turtle]

Used to happen fairly often on the Victoria line when I used to commute a few years ago, was usually the same man as well. Used to walk through all the doors at pace when the train was moving which gave you a bit of a surprise when someone bursts through them, pretty dangerous really.

I must admit now commuting using the District line heading in and out of central from the west I don’t see it as much.

I can remember rush hour begging on the Victoria Line well over 20 years ago. A short term captive audience in each car. Apart from beggars, there was also a chap who wandered up and down with a crucifix mumbling prayers over seated passengers!

 

[Mogz]

Interestingly on a couple of occasions when I worked in London I was approached on stations by young women who were 'stranded' and needed 'money towards the fare home'. 'Even better', I told them, 'I'll buy you a ticket - follow me to the booking office'. They always disappeared on the way, so at least I couldn't feel guilty about possibly leaving someone in danger.

Over the years I have been approached many many times at stations by someone claiming to be stranded and needing money for a ticket home.

Being happy to help someone in genuine need, I always offer to buy them a ticket.

Only once has anyone taken me up on that offer. That was at Birmingham New Street.

Usually they just walk away without saying anything or try to make up some garbled story on the spot about why I should give them the cash for the ticket rather than buy the ticket for them.

 

[ainsworth74]

Apologies for what will be a dumb question to all you well informed 'local yokels', but what do 'tissue seller' beggars do? That is, what's their modus operandi?

Someone, often a woman, but not always, will board an off-peak train (so usually fairly quiet) and go down the carriage leaving a packet of tissues and a piece of paper (often laminated) with some manner of sob story. Typically something along the lines of "I have two young children, I've lost my job due to [insert circumstance designed to gain sympathy] and need some money to pay for [rent/food/etc]. If you would like to help please would you buy the packet of tissues for [insert small sum of money]" occasionally there will be a picture of smiling children along with the note. After they've gone down the carriage they'll go back to the other end and start collecting the tissues and papers back up again and collecting money from anyone daft enough to pay. They then hop to the next carriage at the next station and repeat.

 

[mrmartin]

It's been a while since I've seen the tissue beggars (almost all organised crime, possibly using trafficked individuals), but I have had many more individuals going through the train with a story about needing money for a hostel or similar.

They'll keep doing it because people will give them money. And not always coins/change. There's often someone that gives a note. As such, it seems like it must be quite profitable and will certainly encourage you to do it more.

It's hugely profitable. You can easily make £200+ a day begging in central London. I've worked with people that had previous serious addiction and homelessness issues, and it's actually a big problem getting back into work as working for £10/hr (which is taxed) is such a massive paycut from £200/day tax free.

 

[trebor79]

It's hugely profitable. You can easily make £200+ a day begging in central London. I've worked with people that had previous serious addiction and homelessness issues, and it's actually a big problem getting back into work as working for £10/hr (which is taxed) is such a massive paycut from £200/day tax free.

I've heard this before but it must be getting less lucrative these days as so many people don't carry cash any more? Even buskers have card readers these days.

 

[jon0844]

I've heard this before but it must be getting less lucrative these days as so many people don't carry cash any more? Even buskers have card readers these days.

I suspect the most gullible people likely to be convinced to give money to obviously organised beggars and con artists are also the ones who believe the conspiracy theories about the Government trying to take away cash, and are therefore going to be refusing to switch to cards. So the 'marks' will still have cash to give.

Certainly seems to be the case as plenty of people give money still. Or perhaps people just keep a small bit of cash on them (a smart move for everyone) and feel they can give it up as they aren't using it normally.

 

[ALEMASTER]

It does seem to be common on parts of London Underground and make it feel unsafe, a symptom of it being an unstaffed system of course

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Apologies for what will be a dumb question to all you well informed 'local yokels', but what do 'tissue seller' beggars do? That is, what's their modus operandi?

They place small packets of tissues (remember the brand ‘Handy Andies’?) on the table/seat next to you, along with a printed note asking for a small donation. They move through the train, then walk back through to collect the unwanted tissues and scraps of paper

 

[Howardh]

If anyone approaches me for money, my reply is "sorry I only carry cards" which nowadays is usually true. As long as they don't appear with a card reader - and I bet that's not far off!!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I suspect the most gullible people likely to be convinced to give money to obviously organised beggars and con artists are also the ones who believe the conspiracy theories about the Government trying to take away cash, and are therefore going to be refusing to switch to cards. So the 'marks' will still have cash to give.

Certainly seems to be the case as plenty of people give money still. Or perhaps people just keep a small bit of cash on them (a smart move for everyone) and feel they can give it up as they aren't using it normally.

But we ARE moving increasingly towards a cashless society. Quite a few pubs and retail chains now do not accept cash (Decathlon, Costa, Nandos to name a few).
I personally do not carry cash aside from a spare £20 for emergencies, but I’m not sure I want a cashless future.
I’m certainly not gullible enough to be scammed by these beggars, although I have given a piece of uneaten fruit or cake to someone who asks for a small bit of food, not money.

 

[Thirteen]

If anyone approaches me for money, my reply is "sorry I only carry cards" which nowadays is usually true. As long as they don't appear with a card reader - and I bet that's not far off!!

Honestly I'd be wary of a beggar with a card reader!

It does show how cynical people are in cities if we see someone begging and think it's a scam.

 

[D6975]

Happened this morning on the London Overground from Clapham Junction.

It’s been happening past six months or so on Southern East Croydon to Victoria.

East Croydon - Clapham Jn has been bad for years. You also used to get them on the exit from Victoria heading towards the Coach station, asking for Travelcards that were done with. This seems to have disappeared with the drastic reduction in paper ticket use.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Honestly I'd be wary of a beggar with a card reader!

It does show how cynical people are in cities if we see someone begging and think it's a scam.

Often it is a scam. If it isn't a scam, giving them money in that way can do more harm than good. It creates a dependency on begging, and leaves the individual less likely to seek help.

 

[dk1]

If anyone approaches me for money, my reply is "sorry I only carry cards" which nowadays is usually true. As long as they don't appear with a card reader - and I bet that's not far off!!

Many do. They still get zero acknowledgment let alone a donation from me.

 

[gg1]

They place small packets of tissues (remember the brand ‘Handy Andies’?) on the table/seat next to you, along with a printed note asking for a small donation. They move through the train, then walk back through to collect the unwanted tissues and scraps of paper

Is this a very new thing, I've genuinely never encountered that all and I used to regularly travel to London pre-Covid, only been a handful of times since?

As to the original question, I've never encountered on train begging anywhere outside of London though there's definitely been a year on year increase in street begging over the past 10 years or so.

When in London I've taken to having earbuds in my ears at all times even when not listening to music so I can pretend not to hear beggars, chuggers or street sellers.

 

[RailWonderer]

They have been around on Southern/Thameslink for years as others have pointed out, but they seem to have spread, whereas on the aforementioned routes the methods have gotten more widespread lately

I had tissue beggars on a DART service out of Dublin Connolly two months back, more homeless around the stations in Dublin as well. Over here they were on GWR locals a lot around 2017-18 and once i had them on SWT/R.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Sep 2023 ==

Interestingly on a couple of occasions when I worked in London I was approached on stations by young women who were 'stranded' and needed 'money towards the fare home'. 'Even better', I told them, 'I'll buy you a ticket - follow me to the booking office'. They always disappeared on the way, so at least I couldn't feel guilty about possibly leaving someone in danger.

This is a good way of handling it. Once I had a guy make a poor excuse that he couldn't buy a ticket from the station (Chelmsford) so needed me to give him 20 so he could give me back 10 and buy a...(convoluted excuse).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is the tissue selling actually 'begging'? Or just attempting to sell a low cost item at a potentially massive mark-up? Likely to still be a byelaw offence either way.

 

[BJames]

Is this a very new thing, I've genuinely never encountered that all and I used to regularly travel to London pre-Covid, only been a handful of times since?

As to the original question, I've never encountered on train begging anywhere outside of London though there's definitely been a year on year increase in street begging over the past 10 years or so.

When in London I've taken to having earbuds in my ears at all times even when not listening to music so I can pretend not to hear beggars, chuggers or street sellers.

Definitely not a new thing. I remember it over 10 years ago when I was just going into secondary school!

Is the tissue selling actually 'begging'? Or just attempting to sell a low cost item at a potentially massive mark-up? Likely to still be a byelaw offence either way.

It feels like more begging for money than selling but probably a little bit of a grey area. Either way, they will vanish if any staff or police appear...

 

[ainsworth74]

It feels like more begging for money than selling but probably a little bit of a grey area. Either way, they will vanish if any staff or police appear...

If they were just going down the train saying "Would you like to buy a packet of tissues?" then I'd agree it's selling. But because they have a sob story with their tale of woe that to me tips it into begging.

 

[Thirteen]

The tissue sellers are no difference to the flower sellers in Oxford Street or the scammers on various London bridges doing card games. If you live and work in major cities, it's very easy to develop a do not trust anyone attitude although I do that with the chuggers as well!

 

[Howardh]

If they were just going down the train saying "Would you like to buy a packet of tissues?" then I'd agree it's selling. But because they have a sob story with their tale of woe that to me tips it into begging.

Wouldn't be so bad if they'd sell something you want, like a small bottle of water! Seriously, on Thameslink and Gatwick Express there's no way to buy a drink, so if these "beggars" could buy a concession off the TOC's they could "legally" walk up and down the carriage selling water and toffees. I would also not be surprised if there weren't a thousand regulations, tests, tax etc etc that would have to be done which would make that near impossible.
Pity because that would do both them and us a service.

 

[mrmartin]

I've heard this before but it must be getting less lucrative these days as so many people don't carry cash any more? Even buskers have card readers these days.

Yeah maybe. But keep in mind they are not looking for the 20p/50p/£1 donations, they're looking for someone giving them £20 etc, either drunk or feel very sorry for them.

 

[Howardh]

Yeah maybe. But keep in mind they are not looking for the 20p/50p/£1 donations, they're looking for someone giving them £20 etc, either drunk or feel very sorry for them.

If they're good and making money elsewhere rather than on the street, then taking cash "donations" on the street is simply tax-evasion if it's £5 notes +???

 

[contrex]

I was walking up the approach to Bristol Temple Meads when a young (20-ish) woman addressed me in a strong Welsh Valleys accent and said she needed £20 to get her and her mother home to Cardiff. Could I help? Sorry, no. On up the slope. Right outside the entrance another woman, the dead spit of the first, only about 20 years older. Uncannily similar voice, story was she and her daughter needed £20 to get home to Newport. I said 'You'd better get your story straight with your daughter, she thinks you're going to Cardiff'. Cue stream of very unladylike language.

 

[trebor79]

I was walking up the approach to Bristol Temple Meads when a young (20-ish) woman addressed me in a strong Welsh Valleys accent and said she needed £20 to get her and her mother home to Cardiff. Could I help? Sorry, no. On up the slope. Right outside the entrance another woman, the dead spit of the first, only about 20 years older. Uncannily similar voice, story was she and her daughter needed £20 to get home to Newport. I said 'You'd better get your story straight with your daughter, she thinks you're going to Cardiff'. Cue stream of very unladylike language.

Had one like that in Nottingham bus station years ago. Guy wanders up to me with a sob story and needs 50p to have enough to buy a bus far back home to Leicester. Sorry mate, can't help.
The very next week the same guy. Needs 50p for his bus fare back to Derby. "Oh, you must have moved, you were living in Leicester last week". "YEAH WELL, some things have changed since then, like the effing weather..." just walked off as he ranted.
Many years ago walking to Leeds uni campus for an open day. I would have been 17 or 18. Walking on a bridge over a dual carriageway, this tough little kid with a shaved head comes over, he must have been about 10 or 11. "Hey mister, give me a pound" "No" "Err, YES, give me a pound NOW!". Actually started following me for a while!

 

[PacerTrain142]

Sell packets of tissues, presumably at a cost far greater than they acquired them. Basically wander up to you offering to sell you tissues. I first saw it in Spain about 10 years ago where they would walk down stationary traffic at junctions knocking on windows and displaying their tissues.

Selling packets of tissues on trains?? Never seen that before! Why tissues? Why not something of more value?

But we ARE moving increasingly towards a cashless society. Quite a few pubs and retail chains now do not accept cash (Decathlon, Costa, Nandos to name a few).
I personally do not carry cash aside from a spare £20 for emergencies, but I’m not sure I want a cashless future.
I’m certainly not gullible enough to be scammed by these beggars, although I have given a piece of uneaten fruit or cake to someone who asks for a small bit of food, not money.

Definitely. Legally, businesses still have to accept cash as its legal tender but may refuse to serve you and as they probably won’t have any change, unless you have the exact amount you will have to pay over.

Some small privately owned shops and many hairdressers still don’t accept cards. A lot of them prefer people to pay in cash becuase there is a small processing fee to pay on each transaction. For this reason some shops do not accept cards for purchases less than 2 or 3 pounds. My mum told me she went into a shop recently and they actually offered a discount to people who pay in cash!

To be honest, I’d rather go somewhere that accepts cash but doesn’t accept cards than vice-versa, becuase if I don’t have any cash I can just go to the nearest cash point and draw some out, a minor inconvenience, but if I’m somewhere that only accepts cards but I only have cash I am stuck.

My dad was caught out in this situation when he called in at a pub recently, he didn’t have his card with him and they only accepted cards, but someone in the group he was in offered to pay using their card and my dad gave him the money back.

A cashless society would mean no more giving money to the homeless or tipping in restaurants. You’d still be able to buy them food and drink of course, but I suspect most of the money they get is from people chucking thier spare change into a bowl.

I was on a Cross Country train yesterday and a man was buying some snacks from the trolley but the card machine wasn’t working. I heard him moaning about it saying people don’t carry cash any more.

But from reading this thread obviously a lot of people still do, and you can be caught out if you don’t have cash or card so really it’s best to carry both.

 

[trebor79]

Selling packets of tissues on trains?? Never seen that before! Why tissues? Why not something of more value?

I guess they are cheap to buy in bulk, non-perishable, not breakable, not too heavy or bulky to carry around all day.