Freight train derailment in Gotthard Base tunnel

[Re 4/4]

Which services are operated by double deck trains?

Some of the IC2/IC21 to Lugano were Bombardier Twindexx before the incident.

Otherwise it would have been extremely slow bus replacement for passengers easily could have added 12 hours to passenger journeys and very inconvenient unloading of freight to "road trains" to bypass the tunnel. I would expect the mountain roads to be extremely narrow and steep. It would take all day to transfer the freight and road accidents would be a regular occurrence on the high mountain pass. Especially with thousands of trucks and buses on roads simply not designed for such heavy traffic. You would be lucky to average 10kph on these roads Especially uphill!

The A2 motorway with the Gotthard road tunnel isn't your typical mountain road. Here's a video: YOUTUBE Maximum speed is 80 kph in the tunnel and 100kph on a lot of the approach.

Normal traffic tends to get delayed in traffic jams because the tunnel part is single lane in each direction, but if the SBB had to do a bus replacement, I'm sure the buses could be given priority. You might add 3-4 hours compared to the normal trains, but not 12.

 

[MCR247]

Some of the internal ICs are so booked according to
https://www.reisezuege.ch/

Some of the IC2/IC21 to Lugano were Bombardier Twindexx before the incident.

Thanks both

 

[Austriantrain]

Some longer-distance freight, originating from Frankfurt or further north, could divert via Munich and the Brenner route to Italy, again if there is capacity.

Unfortunately, right now, the Brenner is closed for planned works. But will reopen in approx. 10 days.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2023 ==

They are so lucky to still have maintained the old line!

Otherwise it would have been extremely slow bus replacement for passengers easily could have added 12 hours to passenger journeys and very inconvenient unloading of freight to "road trains" to bypass the tunnel. I would expect the mountain roads to be extremely narrow and steep. It would take all day to transfer the freight and road accidents would be a regular occurrence on the high mountain pass. Especially with thousands of trucks and buses on roads simply not designed for such heavy traffic. You would be lucky to average 10kph on these roads Especially uphill!

The parallel old mountain lines are not only kept for nostalgic reasons; they are very much part of the operating scenario. When the Semmering base tunnel opens, the old mountain line will remain open and will be singled through some tunnels so that double-deck stock and all freights can use it. It will then serve as a diversionary route, also used regularly when the tunnel has its maintenance windows (north-south trains will run through the open bore, south-north trains will divert, because that is the easier profile on the old line - less inclination and greater curve radii on the inclines).

 

[paul_munich]

SBB published some photos of the accident. sbb.ch

 

[duesselmartin]

Some longer-distance freight, originating from Frankfurt or further north, could divert via Munich and the Brenner route to Italy, again if there is capacity.

only the Brenner is currently closed.

Why can freight not be diverted of the classic lines? Not enough locos to push it? It used to be a very busy freight route.

 

[k-c-p]

In an earlier press release (that I cannot find anymore) the SBB noted two major obstacles to divert freight trains along the old route

• loading gauge in the old tunnel is smaller, thus limiting which trains could be diverted
• only one path per hour and direction available during daytime. These path will be used to run intra-swis freight train

 

[30907]

It doesn't look as though Zurich-Italy ECs are being sent via the Lötschberg route instead - maybe there is no capacity.

It's also a long way round! Journey time via the old route PLUS changing at Lugano onto the RE is as quick.

 

[Meerkat]

Going to be a very nervous insurance company somewhere!
Initially surprised they let dangerous goods go through, but I guess it’s safer than having them go over the top by truck and far safer than a truck taking them through the road tunnel.
The road tunnel is pretty grim. Can be long queues and then you spend over quarter of an hour trundling through in traffic at 50mph, and as it’s two way it’s noisy and slightly alarming having trucks thundering by the other way. I had to put the car in neutral to work out if I was going up or down in there!
The road over the top is a glorious, hugely engineered, A-road - a good drive.

 

[bahnause]

The plan is to open the eastern for freight trains tunnel next wednesday. Capacity will be around 90 trains a day.

The door has been replaced by a temporary door. Some parts of the signalling system have to be adapted and some test runs conducted.

It might be possible to run a few passengert trains from thursday. Most likely the direct trains to/from milan.

 

[deltic]

I'm meant to be travelling this route shortly - the timetable shows some very tight connections between trains and the rail replacement bus services, anyone know how they are working in practice?

 

[rvdborgt]

I'm meant to be travelling this route shortly - the timetable shows some very tight connections between trains and the rail replacement bus services, anyone know how they are working in practice?

In Switzerland, generally, yes. But without further details (route, date, departure time) it's hard to say anything more. sbb.ch currently contains adapted timetables until 23 August, not yet for later dates.

 

[Citybreak1]

I done this journey Zurich to Milan in 2019 before the new tunnel does this mean it takes the longer route down the lakes?

 

[norbitonflyer]

I done this journey Zurich to Milan in 2019 before the new tunnel does this mean it takes the longer route down the lakes?

The fast trains still pass the Zurichsee and Zugsee, between Zurich and Arth-Goldau. The new tunnel starts further south. What it misses out is the spirals, and the loops at Wassen. (And of course the original tunnel)

 

[Re 4/4]

One bore of the base tunnel is open for goods traffic again. The first thing SBB sent through was a couple of Twindexx (as ECS) that had taken an extended 'holiday' in Ticino and are now eagerly awaited back for work on the north side.

 

[paul_munich]

The first thing SBB sent through was a couple of Twindexx (as ECS) that had taken an extended 'holiday' in Ticino and are now eagerly awaited back for work on the north side.

is was three(!) units coupled together, never seen that before.

 

[Austriantrain]

According to an SBB press release, there is capacity for about 100 freights a day through the one bore (all flighted by 4 in one direction, then 4 in the other one). Before the fire, about 120 a day ran through the tunnel.

Up to 30 freights a day can be diverted over the mountain line, and some diversions via the Lötschberg will continue.

Direct Passenger services to Italy have mostly been restored, incurring about 60 min delay compared to before.

In German: https://news.sbb.ch/artikel/124073/...eder-durch-ostroehre-von-gotthard-basistunnel

 

[DanielB]

Noticed the image gallery has also been updated with some more photos showing the extend of the damage. Awkward to see a railway tunnel partially covered in Spaghetti: https://brand.sbb.ch/d/k7TF5BpX3B3F/media-center/collection/568

 

[AlbertBeale]

They are so lucky to still have maintained the old line!

Otherwise it would have been extremely slow bus replacement for passengers easily could have added 12 hours to passenger journeys and very inconvenient unloading of freight to "road trains" to bypass the tunnel. I would expect the mountain roads to be extremely narrow and steep. It would take all day to transfer the freight and road accidents would be a regular occurrence on the high mountain pass. Especially with thousands of trucks and buses on roads simply not designed for such heavy traffic. You would be lucky to average 10kph on these roads Especially uphill!

Not really luck - the old line serves some stations which are bypassed (underpassed?) by the new deeper and longer tunnel, so it wouldn't be closed. And it would obviously be seen as worth keeping as a useful diversion for situations like this, given what a key international link the route is. Also, there are still some long-distance north-south SBB trains which use the old route rather than the new tunnel anyway (1tph each way I think, alternately from Basel and Zurich to Locarno).

 

[DanielB]

Also, there are still some long-distance north-south SBB trains which use the old route rather than the new tunnel anyway (1tph each way I think, alternately from Basel and Zurich to Locarno).

Those "Treno Gottardo" are SOB trains, not SBB trains.
Did the trip last summer: 4 hours from Locarno to Basel, quite an impressive trip.

 

[yorkie]

That really is excellent. A lot UK TOCs can learn from how clear that is.

Only things I'd argue with:
1. That tickets on cancelled trains/missed connections aren't valid on the next one by default without consulting staff
2. That if your train is cancelled you can't take an earlier one, only a later one.

Maybe it changed since you read it, but it now says:

You can use your supersaver ticket or Supersaver Class Upgrade on the next possible connection before or after the actual departure time written on the ticket, regardless of the train category or any train changes you might need to make.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Those "Treno Gottardo" are SOB trains, not SBB trains.
Did the trip last summer: 4 hours from Locarno to Basel, quite an impressive trip.

I suppose I was "using shorthand" when trying to say that it was a regular internal/national Swiss service that went that way, not one of the international links. And in any case, it's not on the actual SOB-run routes, and presumably it's a joint operation between SOB/SBB, even if it uses some SOB rolling stock?

 

[MarkyT]

Those "Treno Gottardo" are SOB trains, not SBB trains.
Did the trip last summer: 4 hours from Locarno to Basel, quite an impressive trip.

I suppose I was "using shorthand" when trying to say that it was a regular internal/national Swiss service that went that way, not one of the international links. And in any case, it's not on the actual SOB-run routes, and presumably it's a joint operation between SOB/SBB, even if it uses some SOB rolling stock?

The rolling stock used is SOB. Stadler FLIRTs are in the bronze, red, and black SOB livery with 'Traverso' sub-branding which seems to be a nascent alternative longer distance regional express network SOB are setting up on a number of routes across Switzerland using a mixture of their own and SBBs tracks; in the case of Treno Gottardo, the route is wholly on SBB tracks. I have no idea of staffing arrangements, but if this is in the spirit of 'open access' or 'alternative operator as tendered by local authority', I'd expect them all to be SOB employees. The service picks up all the calls on the traditional Panoramic route over the Gotthard and is the only regular passenger service that way today. Well before the base tunnel project commenced, many of the smaller stations on the inclines either side of the old tunnel had been closed, with local passenger service replaced by buses. This was to increase capacity and speed for longer-distance freight and passenger service, so the Treno Gottardo, despite being significantly slower end to end than SBB express trains that use the base tunnel, is not really a 'local' service in character with, for example on the north ramp, a run of over 29km between Erstfeld and Göschenen non-stop, albeit not as the alpine chough flies! Here's the current timetable:

https://assets.ctfassets.net/s54wddymsrke/hS70TCcwlecLBh8BK7yiW/96ecbb8d89915fee147fa0ea27d1307f/Fahrplan_DE_Treno_Gottardo_ab_11.12.2022.pdf

This states the service is a 'cooperation between SBB and SOB' which presumably acknowledges it runs wholly on SBB infrastructure.

 

[DanielB]

This states the service is a 'cooperation between SBB and SOB' which presumably acknowledges it runs wholly on SBB infrastructure.

Staff, the guards at least, are wearing SOB uniforms.
But I do remember the trains having some small SBB logo on the sides besides the Südostbahn branding.
That's also the case on the Voralpen express which runs only partially on SOB infrastructure.

 

[AndrewE]

the pictures linked in #47 show some surprising track:

can the rails really be totallyindependant and unlinked? It looks as though each just sits on a separate concrete pad in a pocket of the floor slab with very little to resist an overturning force...

 

[bahnause]

nd SOB' which presumably acknowledges it runs wholly on SBB infrastructure.

The concession is held by SBB, the transport is a cooperation between SBB and SOB. Drivers are a mic between SBB and SOB.

 

[MarkyT]

But I do remember the trains having some small SBB logo on the sides besides the Südostbahn branding.

I studied many online photos and videos but couldn't see any sign of SBB branding anywhere on the trains' exterior. That's not to say it doesn't exist clearly!
Here's a rather press release style article that explains some of the background when the service was launched. It seems SOB operates it under contract to SBB.

SOB and SBB in Co-operation Agreement | Traverso Presentation

SOB and SBB presented their co-operation for two railway lines in Bern. They also presented the Traverso, which will run on the routes.

railway-news.com

Schweizerische Südostbahn (SOB) and Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) will co-operate on two long-distance routes starting in 2020. SOB will use its Stadler Traverso trains for these services.

 

[bahnause]

It looks as though each just sits on a separate concrete pad in a pocket of the floor slab with very little to resist an overturning force...

It is a standard low vibration track (LVT) by Vigier Rail.

 

[DanielB]

I studied many online photos and videos but couldn't see any sign of SBB branding anywhere on the trains' exterior.

Study better then I found this photo on Wikipedia in seconds with the SBB-branding visible on the second car.

the pictures linked in #47 show some surprising track:

can the rails really be totallyindependant and unlinked? It looks as though each just sits on a separate concrete pad in a pocket of the floor slab with very little to resist an overturning force...

Not that uncommon actually, such track constructions are found on several high speed lines in Europe. For example the HSL Zuid in the Netherlands has a similar construction and the "schnellfahrstrecke" Cologne - Frankfurt as well.

 

[MarkyT]

Study better then I found this photo on Wikipedia in seconds with the SBB-branding visible on the second car.

In my pitiful defence, I was searching on my small phone screen and didn't think to zoom in closely at the logo and text on the next vehicle, assuming the white blur would be the same as the cab car!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It is a standard low vibration track (LVT) by Vigier Rail.

And presumably the type might well appear on HS2 with its slab track (contract not awarded yet).