Avanti platform staff bawling at passengers

[modernrail]

At Euston the more likely reason that you are running late is that they've only just called the platform.


In addition to the reason listed by a PP, with an intoxicated passenger the difference between "two feet from a train" and "leaning on a train" is just a quick stumble. Hence getting people to stand, a decent distance back to avoid anyone moving into a dangerous position between when they checked and when the train pulls out. I understand that LNW now instructs its guards to keep watching out of an open droplight until the train is clear of the platform - like the old days - after an incident happened.

True. A couple of weeks ago I was on a train that they called 4 minutes after it’s advertised departure time and then dispatched about 2 minutes later. Guess what, the platform staff were shouting ‘stand back’ at the passengers that had failed in their Olympic sprinting. I only caught it because I used RTT. Had I been on the platform, the staff would have received an ear full.

 

[Archie810]

To be honest I'm glad I'm not alone, I thought it was just me that thought some station staff were getting a bit too militant. I worry that this isn't a First Group isolated trend

 

[Bletchleyite]

The staff at Preston in my experience are very, very poor. The above isn't isolated. I have had cause to complain about them and their poor handling of disruption before on more than one occasion.

 

[kristiang85]

Ah I'm glad this isn't just me then. You only have to look at the yellow line to be aggressively shouted at it seems (which I really, really dislike in any walk of life), and it always seems to just be Avanti who do it. It leaves a bad taste.

 

[Segedunum]

The staff at Preston in my experience are very, very poor. The above isn't isolated. I have had cause to complain about them and their poor handling of disruption before on more than one occasion.

I have many memories of ringing Preston for assistance-based issues and queries and would either be stonewalled and told something wasn't the other person's problem or I'd simply never manage to get anyone to answer in the first place.

If that's how they treated internal staff calls, I dread to think how they deal with passengers.

 

[Rail Ranger]

If the industry wants passengers to stay out of what it calls the Passenger Train Interface (PTI) area apart from when they are boarding or alighting from trains it needs to explain to passengers what the PTI is and why it is thought necessary for them to avoid it.

 

[modernrail]

If the industry wants passengers to stay out of what it calls the Passenger Train Interface (PTI) area apart from when they are boarding or alighting from trains it needs to explain to passengers what the PTI is and why it is thought necessary for them to avoid it.

Exactly. The tactic seems to have been paint some yellow lines, fairly inconsistency in position in relation to tactile paving, and then start yelling like deranged idiots at passengers.

The industry needs instead to run some TV adverts, messages at stations, something on Trainline, on tickets, the apps etc to raise awareness in a more civilised fashion. Even if shouting is necessary on the odd occasion there are ways to shout without sounding rude, obnoxious and aggressive and yes it does matter that staff make the effort to adopt polite forms of assertiveness.

 

[12LDA28C]

That covers the minority of mainline stations where there are actually 'dispatchers'.

Clearly. Hardly likely to be the case at a location where trains are not dispatched by dispatchers.

 

[Krokodil]

I've noticed at KX that dispatchers stand watching until the whole train is clear of the platform end.

That is common practice all over the network I believe.

More than that, it's in the rule book for dispatchers to continue to watch trains until clear of the platform. For guards and DOO drivers on the other hand it's up to the company's instructions.

 

[12LDA28C]

If the industry wants passengers to stay out of what it calls the Passenger Train Interface (PTI) area apart from when they are boarding or alighting from trains it needs to explain to passengers what the PTI is and why it is thought necessary for them to avoid it.

Why? An instruction to stand behind the yellow line should suffice whether that be via posters on stations, PA announcements or directly by staff, as long as it's done politely.

 

[modernrail]

Why? An instruction to stand behind the yellow line should suffice whether that be via posters on stations, PA announcements or directly by staff, as long as it's done politely.

Because stations haven’t had them for most people’s lives. They are fairly new introduction. There is lots of scope for a really nice, positive campaign to say, look at what we have done, this is why we have done it, remind people of what can go wrong by reference to real incidents, make people realise this is an act of protection etc. much much better than issuing barking orders to platform staff who seem on some cases to use the opportunity for personal exorcisms.

They haven’t been done well in many locations, leaving insufficient room for passengers to safely wait/pass. Those locations need a rethink.

For instance at Gatwick there is simply insufficient space behind the yellow line for passengers. So you have two options, contribute to a mass and dangerous bunch up at the bottom of the escalators that then turns into a mass brawl to get on the doors of the trains in those locations.

Alternatively, walk down the area over the yellow line and get barked at.

Every single train stops at Gatwick and they all seem to approach slowly anyway because of the quantity of passengers, so the yellow line could be much closer to the platform edge, more like the distance on the tube.

 

[ainsworth74]

Why? An instruction to stand behind the yellow line should suffice whether that be via posters on stations, PA announcements or directly by staff, as long as it's done politely.

Because people are more likely to be compliant if they understand why they're being told to do something that isn't immediately obviously an issue to them. It's similar to the way that far more passengers are likely to be understanding and compliant if they know why they're being delayed (particularly if it's for something like a person hit by a train) than just a being told either nothing at all or given a vague reason. You'll always get some burks who think they know better, but you'll get far more compliance from people who understand why they're being told to do something.

You can continue, of course, just saying that "rules are rules" without explanation and we can continue to see the same results that a lot of people ignore them and then frustrated railways staff have to shout at them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, once again, make it more obvious by way of hatching and KEEP CLEAR text.

Where is it more obvious where you shouldn't stand?

Here:

https://i.redd.it/egbt28mua6f41.jpg

www.reddit.com

(Pic of Manchester Picc P14 with yellow line)

Or here:

Safety Hatching at Thirsk Railway Station

With fast-moving trains and open platforms, safety is important at railway stations. Riggotts have completed a new project for returning clients NG Bailey.

riggott.co.uk

(Pic of hatching on Thirsk station)

 

[MikeWM]

They haven’t been done well in many locations, leaving insufficient room for passengers to safely wait/pass. Those locations need a rethink.

For instance at Gatwick there is simply insufficient space behind the yellow line for passengers. So you have two options, contribute to a mass and dangerous bunch up at the bottom of the escalators that then turns into a mass brawl to get on the doors of the trains in those locations.

Alternatively, walk down the area over the yellow line and get barked at.

Platform 3 at Bromley South is the same, as I observed yesterday. The gap between the yellow line and the buildings on the platform is barely wide enough for one person, so if anyone is standing there waiting for a train, you have no choice but to walk on the 'wrong' side of the line. (Which is perfectly safe, as the yellow line is fairly far from the platform edge).

 

[TreacleMiller]

I think a lot of people here would think differently if they saw just how anxiety inducing people on the edge actually is.

Parents are by far the worst, with prams on the edge (sometimes over) and kids being led along the platform edge whilst the parents are hustling down to where they think they need to be.

If you've been shouted at, you're the problem at the end of the day.

Do staff need to be rude? No, of course not - but the public don't need to be brainless but they seem to be so in stations?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You don't shout at passengers just because they are inducing anxiety. You go over, you tell them politely but assertively what they need to do and why (as reasoning always improves compliance) and they generally will. If they then don't, or the danger increases (e.g. a passing train), then you might escalate.

Shouting should be reserved for "you're about to die". Using it at other times if anything devalues it.

And shout at someone who was planning on jumping and they may well take that as encouragement, sadly

Some staff just seem to enjoy it (eg the contracted security goons at Manc Picc), and that's wrong. The people being described as idiots (who are just acting as they do in more familiar settings, eg you wait for a bus right next to the kerb) are the people who in significant part pay the wages.

 

[12LDA28C]

Because stations haven’t had them for most people’s lives. They are fairly new introduction.

Really? I recall yellow lines on station platforms in the early 1980s which is 40 years ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? I recall yellow lines on station platforms in the early 1980s which is 40 years ago.

They were previously only on intercity stations where trains ran through without stopping. Someone who only ever used Merseyrail, say, may never have seen one.

Painting them everywhere only started in the 2000s.

 

[urbophile]

Because stations haven’t had them for most people’s lives. They are fairly new introduction. There is lots of scope for a really nice, positive campaign to say, look at what we have done, this is why we have done it, remind people of what can go wrong by reference to real incidents, make people realise this is an act of protection etc. much much better than issuing barking orders to platform staff who seem on some cases to use the opportunity for personal exorcisms.

Italian stations announce continually over the PA, 'Allontanarsi dalla linea gialla' (Move away from the yellow line). More frequently than we have 'see it, say it, sorted'. It seems to work.

 

[12LDA28C]

Every single train stops at Gatwick and they all seem to approach slowly anyway because of the quantity of passengers, so the yellow line could be much closer to the platform edge, more like the distance on the tube.

Every single train stops at Gatwick? Really? That may be the case for timetabled passenger trains but not for any kind of ECS movement, freight, charter trains etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Italian stations announce continually over the PA, 'Allontanarsi dalla linea gialla' (Move away from the yellow line). More frequently than we have 'see it, say it, sorted'. It seems to work.

I think an ear worm like the 3 Ss would help, eg "Stay back, stay safe".

 

[800001]

It always amazes me how they manage in foreign countries.

Fast freights and passenger trains whizzing through stations, no yellow lines or announcements, just a message on the CIS screens.

Certain large stations, again no yellow lines, no staff on platform and just 2 Train managers despatching a 14 car ICE, with people walking close to the side.

 

[12LDA28C]

Because people are more likely to be compliant if they understand why they're being told to do something that isn't immediately obviously an issue to them. It's similar to the way that far more passengers are likely to be understanding and compliant if they know why they're being delayed (particularly if it's for something like a person hit by a train) than just a being told either nothing at all or given a vague reason. You'll always get some burks who think they know better, but you'll get far more compliance from people who understand why they're being told to do something.

You can continue, of course, just saying that "rules are rules" without explanation and we can continue to see the same results that a lot of people ignore them and then frustrated railways staff have to shout at them.

You'd hope that people might be aware that it's not a great idea to go too close to the platform edge at locations where fast trains pass and it wouldn't be necessary to explain to them why it might be dangerous. So how would you aim to 'educate' passengers if that's what you propose doing? Posters? Announcements? A national TV campaign?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It always amazes me how they manage in foreign countries.

Fast freights and passenger trains whizzing through stations, no yellow lines or announcements, just a message on the CIS screens.

Certain large stations, again no yellow lines, no staff on platform and just 2 Train managers despatching a 14 car ICE, with people walking close to the side.

In most other countries if you get hurt it's your own fault. Sadly the UK follows the American "it's always someone else's fault" approach.

In a sensible world, if someone does something stupid which causes delay the railway should be able to sue them for the cost.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2023 ==

You'd hope that people might be aware that it's not a great idea to go too close to the platform edge at locations where fast trains pass and it wouldn't be necessary to explain to them why it might be dangerous. So how would you aim to 'educate' passengers if that's what you propose doing? Posters? Announcements? A national TV campaign?

You're staff I presume?

Non staff are used to roads, where you'd only stand back if a car was coming.

I don't think being sanctimonious helps. It's genuinely a foreign environment.

It would probably make sense to bring in behavioural management consultants to work out the best way to manage the issue.

 

[12LDA28C]

You're staff I presume?

Non staff are used to roads, where you'd only stand back if a car was coming.

I don't think being sanctimonious helps. It's genuinely a foreign environment.

If you can't work out that potentially being inches away from a large lump of metal weighing hundreds of tonnes travelling at high speed is dangerous then things aren't looking good for the future of the human race. Not sure how you think that's sanctimonious. It's common sense, at least for adults. And please don't respond by saying people aren't expected to have common sense these days...

 

[nlogax]

And please don't respond by saying people aren't expected to have common sense these days...

They are expected to but for whatever reason many just... don't.

 

[jon0844]

If you can't work out that potentially being inches away from a large lump of metal weighing hundreds of tonnes travelling at high speed is dangerous then things aren't looking good for the future of the human race. Not sure how you think that's sanctimonious. It's common sense, at least for adults. And please don't respond by saying people aren't expected to have common sense these days...

We'd surely become a laughing stock if we had to create a national TV, radio and Internet campaign to tell people to stand back from the edge of a platform!

 

[Joe Paxton]

Trust I'm not the only person to have misread the thread title as "Avanti platform staff brawling at passengers"... !

 

[prod_pep]

There's a bloke at Liverpool Central who has taken to yelling at passengers for this indiscretion. He was heard bawling, "Get behind the yellow line, now!" very loudly over the tannoy during the short period I was there on Saturday; hardly professional and I think the general consensus amongst passengers was 'Calm down, calm down'! Merseyrail is one of those places I never expected to hear that sort of thing as the staff are usually fairly patient in my experience.

 

[Mattydo]

In most other countries if you get hurt it's your own fault. Sadly the UK follows the American "it's always someone else's fault" approach.

In a sensible world, if someone does something stupid which causes delay the railway should be able to sue them for the cost.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2023 ==



You're staff I presume?

Non staff are used to roads, where you'd only stand back if a car was coming.

I don't think being sanctimonious helps. It's genuinely a foreign environment.

It would probably make sense to bring in behavioural management consultants to work out the best way to manage the issue.

Oh for goodness sake. You really need to find a different argument. It's hardly sanctimonious.

Just as physics isn't inside information to railway staff.

People don't need educating about what a moving train does if it comes into contact with a human body, it's very easy to work out for yourself. I didn't receive that information in my welcome pack much as I didn't need to be hand held through the need to stay behind a yellow line as a passenger (posters and small yellow placards were enough).

I know your feelings about the railway staff are fairly uncomplimentary from other threads but this is the most bizarre I've read, and I would have often agreed with your take in other areas.

I put it to you again. One person isn't able to constantly move up and down. 300m platform politely asking people to stand back all the time. There are polite PA's, posters and the occasional "stand back please" but eventually you will get a "stand back!" without the please. There is NOTHING rude about this. It is an instruction designed to be adhered to, not a request. There are times fro customer service and there are times for directness. British people are obsessed with perceived politeness to their detriment sometimes. I'm sure there is some class psyche creeping in here too... How dare the staff shout at me!