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Passengers boarding train prior to display on screens

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12LDA28C

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I have a fairly good idea of the reason we were asked to leave, and it has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the member of staff.

Please do enlighten me if you think there's a real reason that will hold up to scrutiny, though.

I know that Chiltern do not usually couple up trains with passengers on board, maybe this is a procedure born out of someone being injured at some point in the past, I don't know and neither do you. Just because the reason for them following that procedure isn't immediately evident, does not mean it doesn't exist.
 
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Adam Williams

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I know that Chiltern do not usually couple up trains with passengers on board, maybe this is a procedure born out of someone being injured at some point in the past, I don't know and neither do you. Just because the reason for them following that procedure isn't immediately evident, does not mean it doesn't exist.
The train went out in exactly the same formation as it came in, there was no coupling.
 

12LDA28C

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The train went out in exactly the same formation as it came in, there was no coupling.

Ok, then maybe there was a fault with the train that was initially considered to be terminal and a replacement train sought. Then the fault was fixed and the original unit was then considered fit for service. Just one possible explanation.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be asked to leave a train and then reboard 'for no reason'. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Possibly with the occasional very localised exception such as Blackpool North where a particular staffing ethos has historically prevailed as a consequence of a higher than usual percentage of "nutters well refreshed persons" within the passing through paying public.
Corrected that for you! ;)
 

Adam Williams

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Ok, then maybe there was a fault with the train that was initially considered to be terminal and a replacement train sought. Then the fault was fixed and the original unit was then considered fit for service. Just one possible explanation.
Within the space of a minute?! And with no reported delays in Darwin due to any sort of suspected train fault? Come on, you and I both know that's vanishingly unlikely.

I've been on an XC train which had a suspected fault, it tends to be pretty obvious - on that occasion, the Alstom guy on the platform was friendly and happy to explain a) what the fault was to me and b) the likelihood of the train continuing to its destination. That's what I would consider good customer service.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be asked to leave a train and then reboard 'for no reason'. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened.
I am unsure why you are so reluctant to come to the conclusion that a colleague could've taken offense at passengers "boarding at the wrong time" and being a jobsworth for the sake of it. I'm afraid in the real world this does happen.
 
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12LDA28C

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Within the space of a minute?! And with no reported delays in Darwin due to any sort of suspected train fault? Come on, you and I both know that's vanishingly unlikely.

I've been on an XC train which had a suspected fault, it tends to be pretty obvious - on that occasion, the Alstom guy on the platform was friendly and happy to explain a) what the fault was to me and b) the likelihood of the train continuing to its destination. That's what I would consider good customer service.

It's entirely possible for a fault to be present which initially can't be rectified and is considered terminal then the fault indication suddenly clears and the unit is good to go.

I'm sure 'jobsworths' do exist in all industries but if a member of staff were to kick everyone off a train 'for no reason' other than to cause inconvenience to passengers they'd soon be asked to explain their actions.
 

yorkie

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We used to have a notice in our shift plan if we has to lock the doors on a unit. I think I've seen it twice in around 15 years.

Our normal procedure i to leave the train open and unmanned at the platform. The PIS will activate the displays 20 minutes before departure (most trains don't spend more time at a platform anyway). That works with units being coupled and uncoupled during this time, as every single unit knows its timetable for the whole day.
Unfortunately most railways in the UK are not run to anywhere near the standard of Swiss railways.

Chiltern Railways, which has gone very much downhill in recent years, having been fairly well respected a few years ago, lags very far behind operators such as SBB in all areas, including customer service, competency etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

...In any case, I would put it to you that delivering a good passenger experience includes explaining actions to paying customers when they appear completely nonsensical too, which did not happen.
I see no evidence that companies such as Chiltern aim to deliver a good passenger experience; from what I see they aim to run a budget experience, with passengers seen as an inconvenience to the running of the service.

Maybe that isn't the intention but it's certainly how the company comes across to me.
 

bahnause

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Unfortunately most railways in the UK are not run to anywhere near the standard of Swiss railways.
Might be because the long term funding isn't? Sometimes people think not investing is free, but instead it makes everything more expensive over time.
Chiltern Railways, which has gone very much downhill in recent years, having been fairly well respected a few years ago, lags very far behind operators such as SBB in all areas, including customer service, competency etc.
I had a very positive experience with chiltern, but that was years ago... I never understood the concept of not announcing the platforms until a few minutes before departure. I find it a very unpleasant experience, it feels busy and rushed. I can see however that not everything is comparable in terms of running a railway in different countries. What I can see is that a lot has changed in the swiss railway system in the last 25 years. Not everything was an improvement. I can't see a lot of real change in the UK.
 

Egg Centric

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To me it's more a reluctance to explain why the railway does things that are "anti-customer". There are often very good reasons why something is done the way it's done, they just might not be obvious to the average punter. So when queried just being told "it's policy" and/or "we've always done it this way" isn't exactly helpful. Explaining what the reason for the policy is, even though a passenger may prefer that they change the policy, is a far more constructive approach and therefore likely to defuse quite a lot, if not all, the ill-will generated.

Again, not a reasonable expectation of frontline staff to be able to do that in all circumstances at all times (they may not know, they have safety critical duties, or even just time sensitive work to get on with, etc etc). But certainly not unreasonable for customer service staff I'd suggest.

Now, of course, it's perfectly possible that a certain policy really is just down to the convience of the TOC in question and those that drafted it either didn't consider or just didn't care about the impact on customers. But for me the starting point is to actually communicate the reasons for an otherwise seemingly odd policy.

A theory I have is it's a side effect of the psychometric tests that (understandably) select for unquestioning rule followers. Great for operational safety but not so great at getting silly rules change.
 

QueensCurve

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And yes, put simply, Chiltern's policy is that units are not coupled or uncoupled with passengers on board so front line staff are certainly not 'deliberately antagonising customers' as you put it
Having been on countless trains that coupled/uncoupled at Carstairs in the 1980s, I find this an unduly risk averse precaution.
 

12LDA28C

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Having been on countless trains that coupled/uncoupled at Carstairs in the 1980s, I find this an unduly risk averse precaution.

Not much relevance in quoting things that happened on the railway 40 years ago, things have changed since then. Back then we could lean out of the windows on slam-door stock - you may be aware that we can't do that any more.
 

Krokodil

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Chiltern Railways, which has gone very much downhill in recent years, having been fairly well respected a few years ago, lags very far behind operators such as SBB in all areas, including customer service, competency etc.
Unfortunately we don't fund our railways as well as the Swiss do.

I see no evidence that companies such as Chiltern aim to deliver a good passenger experience; from what I see they aim to run a budget experience, with passengers seen as an inconvenience to the running of the service.
An inevitable consequence of the de facto nationalisation under the remit of the price of everything & value of nothing Treasury.
 

Taunton

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However did we end up, unlike the previous 100 years, with trains that cannot have the lights on if the engines are not running? What happens if the engine on one car fails en route?

Having the engines off until 7 minutes before departure seems a sensible environmental approach. in fact I wonder why it cannot be 30 seconds, like a road vehicle.

Marylebone is of course the place where, with a combination of posting departure information only fractionally before departure as policy, low staffing, and staff distracted on other duties, a train departed before its passengers had been admitted. It was of course regarded as an on-time departure.

As I understand it the noise complaints from adjacent residents at Marylebone arose principally after the Class 68 locos were introduced, which idle with the sound of a staccato machine gun, and were stood directly adjacent to the flats to thrum away for extended periods.
 

Alex C.

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I've noticed that SWR are a lot better than they used to be at leaving trains unlocked, you can generally board as early as you like.

I recently had a work trip and was meeting a colleague en-route. The layover at Portsmouth Harbour was 50 minutes or so, I boarded and managed to get an hour of work done in relative peace and quiet!
 

Krokodil

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Marylebone is of course the place where, with a combination of posting departure information only fractionally before departure as policy, low staffing, and staff distracted on other duties, a train departed before its passengers had been admitted. It was of course regarded as an on-time departure.
Happens at Euston a lot
 

12LDA28C

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Having the engines off until 7 minutes before departure seems a sensible environmental approach. in fact I wonder why it cannot be 30 seconds, like a road vehicle.

If you want engines to be started 30 seconds before departure, every single train will depart late. It's literally not possible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Marylebone is of course the place where, with a combination of posting departure information only fractionally before departure as policy, low staffing, and staff distracted on other duties, a train departed before its passengers had been admitted. It was of course regarded as an on-time departure.

It's not 'as policy', that's complete rubbish. In certain situations it's not possible to post departure information further in advance as either the incoming train hasn't arrived, a unit is receiving fitter's attention or for any other number of reasons.
 

Taunton

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Yeah yeah yeah. All these "what if's". I'm afraid several of us have watched trains standing (Euston is good for this) with "Preparing" shown for quarter of an hour or so, when no preparation is patently in prospect. And that is indeed all driven by policy, to keep the Sheep standing until We say so. If it was turning at a through station, like Leeds or Newcastle, it would be no issue to board.
 

12LDA28C

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Yeah yeah yeah. All these "what if's". I'm afraid several of us have watched trains standing (Euston is good for this) with "Preparing" shown for quarter of an hour or so, when no preparation is patently in prospect. And that is indeed all driven by policy, to keep the Sheep standing until We say so. If it was turning at a through station, like Leeds or Newcastle, it would be no issue to board.

Nothing like a good conspiracy theory, eh. So now late boarding is all about 'control of the masses'. Brilliant.

I'm not sure how your alleged experience at Euston has any bearing on your absurd claim about Marylebone...
 

Western Sunset

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Don't fully know the pros and cons of Marylebone, but it always seems that folks are having to rush to get to their trains. Can't be good customer service if people (including families and the elderly) have to be chivied by staff to get onto the train, due to the late announcement of the platform.
 

12LDA28C

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Don't fully know the pros and cons of Marylebone, but it always seems that folks are having to rush to get to their trains. Can't be good customer service if people (including families and the elderly) have to be chivied by staff to get onto the train, due to the late announcement of the platform.

I've given several reasons why Marylebone is subject to rather different constraints from other London Terminals, not least of which is having only six platforms.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yeah yeah yeah. All these "what if's". I'm afraid several of us have watched trains standing (Euston is good for this) with "Preparing" shown for quarter of an hour or so, when no preparation is patently in prospect. And that is indeed all driven by policy, to keep the Sheep standing until We say so. If it was turning at a through station, like Leeds or Newcastle, it would be no issue to board.

There is an issue with showing "Preparing" quite late, yes, but I've never heard of one being sent off without boarding, and I've used Euston thousands of times.
 

moonarrow458

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I've had it happen where I've been the only person on an evening peak departure from Marylebone, as they had 3 consecutive departures (eg xx18, xx24, xx27) due to depart from the same platform within 10 mins of each other. And they would only display the platform for each service once the preceding service had left. Cue the 2nd train Being late so the the 3rd train West Ruislip service only flashed up for 5 seconds before being removed from the boards, no announcements. I only knew what platform it was via RTT. That struck me as being pretty farcical so I can well imagine there's a number of issues with boarding trains at Marylebone
 

12LDA28C

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I've had it happen where I've been the only person on an evening peak departure from Marylebone, as they had 3 consecutive departures (eg xx18, xx24, xx27) due to depart from the same platform within 10 mins of each other. And they would only display the platform for each service once the preceding service had left. Cue the 2nd train Being late so the the 3rd train West Ruislip service only flashed up for 5 seconds before being removed from the boards, no announcements. I only knew what platform it was via RTT. That struck me as being pretty farcical so I can well imagine there's a number of issues with boarding trains at Marylebone

As soon as you start advertising more than one train at a time on the same platform, people start getting on the wrong train. On many occasions I've seen trains clearly posted on screens as 'far train' and yet people are pressing the door buttons on a train at the buffer stops which is shut down with doors closed, trying to get on.
 
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