Avanti platform staff bawling at passengers

[Hadders]

It's quite common for people to alight a train on platform 1 or 4 and then use 2 or 3 to walk down and 'jump the queue'. It's certainly more likely they'd be hearing a train horn than a member of staff shouting though. A lot of stations have PA systems with the volume very low, thanks to the local residents moaning and succeeding in having the volume cap. In those cases, if the PA won't work then you only have your voice.

Absolutely, this is exactly what I do. If you alight from the rear of a northbound train on P4 and walk along P3 to the stairs to exit your back is towards approaching trains.

The same applies alighting from the rear of a southbound train on P1 but fewer people do this as the majority of journeys are to/from London rather than the north.

 

[Falcon1200]

They are safety critically trained so can and do cross the yellow line in the course of their duties.

Don't doubt that for a minute, but what example does it set to the public to see staff apparently ignoring the very instruction they are shouting at passengers? IMHO staff should also remain behind the yellow line unless it is necessary to cross it to carry out their duties.

 

[Howardh]

To me those tube stations with central platforms seem far more dangerous, and it surprises me more aren't pushed onto the tracks at rush hour; Londoners must be very considerate! The nearest train station I can think of would be Salford Crescent and Piccadilly 13/14 where you can have a packed central platform with nowhere to go if there's a crush. There wouldn't the staff's priority to be to stop people entering the platform this preventing a dangerous crush rather than white/yellow/red lines?

 

[island]

There are not very many tube stations with island platforms.

 

[Mojo]

Personally I think this is symptomatic of a society that is bizarrely unwilling to challenge the establishment but constantly enjoys displaying acts of micro aggression in other settings. Aviation is the same; "could you put your bag in the overhead locker sir as you're sat in an emergency exit row" is often met with rudeness rather than an acceptance that a crew member is enforcing the law. Security agents seem surly because they are still, after 20 years, having to instruct people to take liquids out of their bags.

The difference being that there is no consistency in the rules, and airports seem to rely on people telling people things rather than putting up signage in advance. There are many airports across the world where you aren’t required to take liquids or iPads out of your bag because they have a different type of scanner, similarly Australia has a phobia of umbrellas where they want you to take them out of the bag.

In a railway concept, someone used to travelling in London where on Elizabeth line, Overground and Underground the yellow line is much closer to the platform edge, despite trains often approaching platforms at what may be faster speeds, might be somewhat confused why they want you to stand so far back at a station that doesn’t have trains approaching at high speeds.

 

[Lampshade]

I got bellowed at at Wigan North Western earlier this year as I dared to walk the 'wrong' side of the yellow line to avoid some pushchairs which had congregated at a narrow point.

So I walked down the platform along the 'right' side, turned round, looked back, then put one foot over the line - got bellowed at again, but it was worth it.

 

[Mattydo]

The difference being that there is no consistency in the rules, and airports seem to rely on people telling people things rather than putting up signage in advance. There are many airports across the world where you aren’t required to take liquids or iPads out of your bag because they have a different type of scanner, similarly Australia has a phobia of umbrellas where they want you to take them out of the bag.

In a railway concept, someone used to travelling in London where on Elizabeth line, Overground and Underground the yellow line is much closer to the platform edge, despite trains often approaching platforms at what may be faster speeds, might be somewhat confused why they want you to stand so far back at a station that doesn’t have trains approaching at high speeds.

Except 3D scanners are the exception not the norm. I've never noticed a lack of signage. At Heathrow you'd be hard pressed to miss the repack area with gazillions of plastic bags and plenty of signage... Yet many do. Brain get checked in with bags

As for LU Vs Network rail infrastructure yes there is a difference, although I imagine the line distance on NR is somewhat standardised (notable exceptions like Farringdon) and built for trains passing at up to 125mph which I don't think I've ever seen an S Stock manage.

My main point remains though. There is adequate platform available behind the yellow line, it seems to be impatience that leads to people not using it mostly. It confuses me greatly why simple instructions are hard to follow for some and not all, and I imagine that's what leads to a lot of bellowing. I've had to stop along a platform when a passenger who probably felt themselves clear or the edge forgot that their massive rucksack was protruding passed the edge of the platform. A problem that might have been avoided if they'd stood behind the yellow blooming line ! I would have been more than happy for them to be bellowed at.

 

[galwhv69]

I've worked platform crowd control on quite a few occasions (including for Hampton Court Flower Show and Wimbledon Tennis, where the crowds can get massive) and sometimes shouting is the only way for passengers to listen. It may seem a bit rude or whatever, but more often than not, I noticed that when I spoke calmly I would just get a sarcastic response from the passenger that's close to being clipped by a train, but shouting is more effective at getting passengers to move back

 

[TPO]

As a train driver, if I'm entering a platform and you are between the yellow line and platform edge I will sound the horn until you move. If you don't move I'll emergency stop the train. I also won't dispatch on DOO until you are behind the yellow line. Too many rail staff now getting charged and in court because of idiot passengers.

What difference does it make if platform staff fall ill? You're saying there's an automated system to warn people of a train coming, which almost always works.

You will of course need to be looking at the display and able to hear announcements from speakers that may have the volume turned down (to appease local residents) or not announce at all (e.g. late in the evening, very early morning) and that would suggest you're not someone on your phone or listening to music.

And when the display isn't working because there's a problem with the feed that tells it a train is in the berth (perhaps the network has gone down), or there's a software upgrade being done, or whatever other reason - you now find out when the train just turns up.

I really hope you're not responsible for anything safety related in your job.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2023 ==



I'm surprised at the levels of self-entitlement on here, and derogatory comments about staff who are putting safety first. It's like the sort of comments you'd expect on Facebook or Twitter/X, not a rail forum.

Well said. Why is it such a problem being behind the yellow line?

Train staff are being held liable in court. Criticising them is like shouting at a driver of a car who is in front of you and obeying the speed limit (irrespective of how sensible you think the speed limit is, it's still a legal requirement not to exceed it).

I was waiting with a friend on platform 3 for a LNER northbound train at Stevenage last year when a Cambridge Cruiser passed through at 100mph. They were surprised that trains passed through that fast. A couple of minutes later they were even more surprised when a LNER train went through at 125mph!

I suspect one of the issues at Stevenage is when a load of passengers have just got off a train from London on platform 4 and a fast train passes through non-stop at 125mph on platform 3. The platforms are quite narrow, especially and the stairs aren’t the widest either.

Indeed, and the PTI risk assessment for the station will take such matters into account. There's a Rail Industry Standard for PTI risk assessment, developed in the light of experience of accidents and human behavours. This stuff doesn't just appear out of thin air.

To me those tube stations with central platforms seem far more dangerous, and it surprises me more aren't pushed onto the tracks at rush hour; Londoners must be very considerate! The nearest train station I can think of would be Salford Crescent and Piccadilly 13/14 where you can have a packed central platform with nowhere to go if there's a crush. There wouldn't the staff's priority to be to stop people entering the platform this preventing a dangerous crush rather than white/yellow/red lines?

The Tube takes robust measures to manage platform loading. Pre-COVID, certain stations were notorious for being closed off at times in the rush hour so that passenger numbers did not overwhelm a platform..... passengers were held in a queue at the station entrance, or at the top of the stairs to the platforms, or at the barriers; only a managed amount let onto the platforms after each train has removed some people. Use of platform staff with bats and radio loudspeakers to help manage the PTI was also not uncommon in such stations.

I have in the past experienced that at Paddington (Bakerloo) and it wasn't fun. That said, the commuters on the platform were indeed all very well-behaved and didn't push if in the third or fourth row back from the platform edge, just shuffled forward as successive trains removed the front row and once in the front row boarded the next train. Still scary being stood in the front row (just behind the yellow line) as the train approached tho.

Not sure how often that happens these days with the Elizabeth line opening and the post-COVID drop off in peak loading. But Londoners were indeed well behaved and the Tube does manage platform crowding.

Mainline stations are also required to manage platform crowding, at stations where platforms regularly get crowded it tends to be done better because staff are geared up for it (and if the loading is due to commuters, they tend to learn the routine and it all works better as a result).

TPO

 

[Bletchleyite]

The issue is not that you should be the right side of it, but that shouting at people isn't acceptable unless to avoid an immediate and otherwise unavoidable accident.

There are plenty of ways this could be done in a way that doesn't involve shouting at people. Making it more intuitive to remain the correct side of it, e.g. by removing obstructions and adding hatching, plus clear and standardised announcements, would be better.

About the worst way is the Manc Picc way, and that seems to be becoming standard.

 

[Mattydo]

The issue is not that you should be the right side of it, but that shouting at people isn't acceptable unless to avoid an immediate and otherwise unavoidable accident.

There are plenty of ways this could be done in a way that doesn't involve shouting at people. Making it more intuitive to remain the correct side of it, e.g. by removing obstructions and adding hatching, plus clear and standardised announcements, would be better.

About the worst way is the Manc Picc way, and that seems to be becoming standard.

But it is the issue because if they stood behind the line they wouldn't get shouted at.

How does one dispatcher make themselves heard from one end of the platform to the other if they don't have a PA system without shouting? I'm sorry but customer service isn't their primary concern, customer safety is...

This whole thread is about people taking offence when they are told off for disregarding rules they think they are above as far as I can see.

The conditions of carriage form a contract and that includes some obligation on the part of the passenger.

As I say, it reminds me of aviation where a few passengers who refuse to comply with requirements become belligerent when faced with the fact that the aircraft has a commander not a chief customer experience team leader.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, passengers agree to comply with railway bylaws when they purchase a ticket, if they don't they're liable to be informed to comply in whatever way is expedient for their own safety.

 

[Howardh]

The issue is not that you should be the right side of it, but that shouting at people isn't acceptable unless to avoid an immediate and otherwise unavoidable accident.

There are plenty of ways this could be done in a way that doesn't involve shouting at people. Making it more intuitive to remain the correct side of it, e.g. by removing obstructions and adding hatching, plus clear and standardised announcements, would be better.

About the worst way is the Manc Picc way, and that seems to be becoming standard.

An electric prod?? (OK, should be in the "controvertial section....")

Yeah, 13/14 is a pretty unpleasant place to be for a variety of reasons not least of which is the yelling. However they could gate it and keep everyone upstairs, open the gate when the train arrives (and, indeed, pax are alighted) but that would hold up the trains - there are enough delays on that corridor itself in the first place - and lead to a mad rush down steep stairs, and those with luggage might miss if they need the lift.

One possible solution, but ultimately unworkable, are "Jubilee-style" gates by the platform edge. Won't work as, unlike the tube, doors of all the trains won't align with the gates.

So we're stuck with being yelled at. Can we yell back "yes we know!!!" louder??

 

[Bletchleyite]

But it is the issue because if they stood behind the line they wouldn't get shouted at.

With all due respect I would suggest re reading my post where I've already countered this post.

Like 20 Zones are better than 20 limits, it's better to make compliance intuitive and natural through good design than bark at customers.

If you think barking at customers is OK other than to avoid immediate injury or death, and you're staff (are you?) I'd say this says everything about the railway's corporate attitude problem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2023 ==

An electric prod?? (OK, should be in the "controvertial section....")

Yeah, 13/14 is a pretty unpleasant place to be for a variety of reasons not least of which is the yelling. However they could gate it and keep everyone upstairs, open the gate when the train arrives (and, indeed, pax are alighted) but that would hold up the trains - there are enough delays on that corridor itself in the first place - and lead to a mad rush down steep stairs, and those with luggage might miss if they need the lift.

One possible solution, but ultimately unworkable, are "Jubilee-style" gates by the platform edge. Won't work as, unlike the tube, doors of all the trains won't align with the gates.

So we're stuck with being yelled at. Can we yell back "yes we know!!!" louder??

The solution is obvious - hatch the area with clear text stating "DO NOT STAND HERE". The multiple lines and tactiles are not intuitive design.

 

[bramling]

But it is the issue because if they stood behind the line they wouldn't get shouted at.

How does one dispatcher make themselves heard from one end of the platform to the other if they don't have a PA system without shouting? I'm sorry but customer service isn't their primary concern, customer safety is...

This whole thread is about people taking offence when they are told off for disregarding rules they think they are above as far as I can see.

I think the latter is why this thread seems to have got off on the wrong foot. No one has said they’re above the rules. But equally the railway seems to expect people to know what “the rules” are, without actually making it clear what the expectations are. Or to move the goalposts and again expect people to be telepathic, which is what actually seems to be going on here.

There’s a separate issue that many people, quite reasonably, find shouting unacceptable and unprofessional. *If* there is a problem with people doing unsafe things, deliberately or otherwise, the industry needs to find ways of addressing this which don’t involve staff shouting their heads off at people. There have been a number of suggestions on this thread as to how that might be achieved.

Railway staff already don’t have the best reputation with the general public, probably in most cases for pretty spurious or unfair reasons. However this sort of thing just legitimises this, and doesn’t serve the industry well.

The other point to make is that much of this stuff is what we see what everything is running nicely. When the job goes up the wall, staff are often nowhere to be seen and it becomes, or reverts to being, a case of “anything goes” anyway.

 

[Mattydo]

With all due respect I would suggest re reading my post where I've already countered this post.

Like 20 Zones are better than 20 limits, it's better to make compliance intuitive and natural through good design than bark at customers.

If you think barking at customers is OK other than to avoid immediate injury or death, and you're staff (are you?) I'd say this says everything about the railway's corporate attitude problem.

Balderdash. There are countless PA's, announcements, posters and, if you're so inclined, information online about what the yellow line exists for, but beyond that how people think standing close to where 500 tonnes of shifting metal could be, be it moving at 5mph or 125mph, is beyond me.

As a child I was capable of understanding not to stand on the edge of a platform, or walk under a wing by an aircraft engine with an exhaust area near 700 degrees C and/or with Jet A1 dripping out the surge valves. Yet I've witnessed people ignore signage and polite requests in both instances and then have experienced rather more brusk instruction to do as their told for their own safety.

Shouting is generally the last resort despite the perception of the enthusiasts found on RF, one arrived at because people don't respond to (usually) multiple polite requests.

You may think people are being barked at but again, what do you want a platform staff member standing up to 300m away to do, ask in a soft tone?

 

[Paul_10]

Must admit I also share the surprise that people on here have regarding that it's inappropriate to shout if your Infront of the yellow line. I mean if you don't want to be shouted at then don't cross it, not rocket science. The annoying ones I've witnessed is the friends/family/partner is having a chat with the passenger(s) by the doors whilst staff trying to dispatch the train, completely oblivious how much of an issue them standing there is.

It only take one trip or fall and your either on the track or worse under a train so I fully support the strong approach.

 

[bramling]

Must admit I also share the surprise that people on here have regarding that it's inappropriate to shout if your Infront of the yellow line. I mean if you don't want to be shouted at then don't cross it, not rocket science. The annoying ones I've witnessed is the friends/family/partner is having a chat with the passenger(s) by the doors whilst staff trying to dispatch the train, completely oblivious how much of an issue them standing there is.

It only take one trip or fall and your either on the track or worse under a train so I fully support the strong approach.

Perhaps it’s a generational thing. I associate shouting with school, and it was pretty much without exception the poorer teachers who did it. Progression into adulthood reinforced this, as well as furthering the association with negative outcomes. So when one witnesses it in a setting like a railway station one tends to associate it with people who haven’t fully grown up and learned to convey themselves in more mature (and effective) ways.

Whether that’s right or wrong is a separate matter for debate, however it will explain why shouting often seems to be received badly and associated with poor outcomes.

The one exception is of course when there’s a serious and imminent danger. However that’s for when something bad is about to happen *now* and immediate avoiding action needs to be taken. An unrelated example of this might be two boats about to collide on a river. You wouldn’t do it every time one sees someone who has merely veered out of line, as you’re simply devaluing the effect of the warning.

 

[Deepgreen]

Visiting Crewe seems to be a favourite for ORR staff/nuisances. They insisted on 2 person dispatch for all Pendolinos, and keeping people back essential, especially given the absence of tactile paving and high passenger footfall.

Given the James St manslaughter case it easy to understand why regulator, operator and the unions reasonably agree on keeping the "platform train interface" (oh dear) 100% clear.

It may be an unpopular view but I feel they should demolish the lot, send the signals & box to Holland in a scrap barge and rebuild Crewe from scratch albeit sympathetically. Perhaps an economy demolition as was done at Northwich, just slam the waiting room door too hard, it'll all fall down anyway... Ahem

With no platform/train interfaces?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2023 ==

It's another example of the insidious removal of personal responsibilities from people in society - they are more and more instructed what to do where commonsense used to dictate these things. It can never end...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2023 ==

With all due respect I would suggest re reading my post where I've already countered this post.

Like 20 Zones are better than 20 limits, it's better to make compliance intuitive and natural through good design than bark at customers.

If you think barking at customers is OK other than to avoid immediate injury or death, and you're staff (are you?) I'd say this says everything about the railway's corporate attitude problem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2023 ==



The solution is obvious - hatch the area with clear text stating "DO NOT STAND HERE". The multiple lines and tactiles are not intuitive design.

Sure to be ignored by large numbers of people. Unless people are told there are cameras and offenders will be fined, as in box junctions, (or bellowed at) they will not be interested.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Perhaps it’s a generational thing. I associate shouting with school, and it was pretty much without exception the poorer teachers who did it. Progression into adulthood reinforced this, as well as furthering the association with negative outcomes. So when one witnesses it in a setting like a railway station one tends to associate it with people who haven’t fully grown up and learned to convey themselves in more mature (and effective) ways.

Whether that’s right or wrong is a separate matter for debate, however it will explain why shouting often seems to be received badly and associated with poor outcomes.

The one exception is of course when there’s a serious and imminent danger. However that’s for when something bad is about to happen *now* and immediate avoiding action needs to be taken. An unrelated example of this might be two boats about to collide on a river. You wouldn’t do it every time one sees someone who has merely veered out of line, as you’re simply devaluing the effect of the warning.

Absolutely spot on. It was always poor teachers who had to shout in class & then got less respect.
Equally it's poor rail staff who have to shout & suffer with even more people straying across the line.
On a visit to Stoke station they announced a train and added "would any passengers not boarding this service please keep back from the platform edge to allow station staff to perform their duties." And not one person had to be shouted at. Calm & nice wins the day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2023 ==

Balderdash. There are countless PA's, announcements, posters and, if you're so inclined, information online about what the yellow line exists for, but beyond that how people think standing close to where 500 tonnes of shifting metal could be, be it moving at 5mph or 125mph, is beyond me.

As a child I was capable of understanding not to stand on the edge of a platform, or walk under a wing by an aircraft engine with an exhaust area near 700 degrees C and/or with Jet A1 dripping out the surge valves. Yet I've witnessed people ignore signage and polite requests in both instances and then have experienced rather more brusk instruction to do as their told for their own safety.

Shouting is generally the last resort despite the perception of the enthusiasts found on RF, one arrived at because people don't respond to (usually) multiple polite requests.

You may think people are being barked at but again, what do you want a platform staff member standing up to 300m away to do, ask in a soft tone?

Maybe I've missed them, in which case they're clearly not clear, but all the notices and posters I've seen about standing behind yellow lined all warn of the dangers of passing trains. People therefore don't see the issue with stationary ones. The railway seem at fault here. "Stand behind the yellow line unless boarding or alighting a train" would perhaps be better.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2023 ==

Balderdash. There are countless PA's, announcements, posters and, if you're so inclined, information online about what the yellow line exists for, but beyond that how people think standing close to where 500 tonnes of shifting metal could be, be it moving at 5mph or 125mph, is beyond me.

As a child I was capable of understanding not to stand on the edge of a platform, or walk under a wing by an aircraft engine with an exhaust area near 700 degrees C and/or with Jet A1 dripping out the surge valves. Yet I've witnessed people ignore signage and polite requests in both instances and then have experienced rather more brusk instruction to do as their told for their own safety.

Shouting is generally the last resort despite the perception of the enthusiasts found on RF, one arrived at because people don't respond to (usually) multiple polite requests.

You may think people are being barked at but again, what do you want a platform staff member standing up to 300m away to do, ask in a soft tone?

Maybe I've missed them, in which case they're clearly not clear, but all the notices and posters I've seen about standing behind yellow lined all warn of the dangers of passing trains. People therefore don't see the issue with stationary ones. The railway seem at fault here. "Stand behind the yellow line unless boarding or alighting a train" would perhaps be better.

 

[Rover77]

I think some posters think the only approach staff take is straight to shouting. We make announcements about standing clear of the train if you are not intending to travel, we make calm announcements to remain behind yellow line. We also have to use of voices. There have been 100s of trains arrive and depart when I have not had to shout/speak to anyone. There have ofcourse been 100s where I have. People recalling an experience as a passenger when staff didn't shout is not an accurate picture of what happens throughout a shift. Unless they stood on platform all day. The next train after yours could have been very difficult for staff to manage the PTI and shouting may have occurred.

 

[richfoz84]

https://www.itv.com/news/london/2022-06-29/dramatic-moment-pulled-from-tracks-after-falling-beneath-overground-train#

Many incidents of people falling off the platform (just google it!) whether there is a train there or not / moving or stationary. The PTI assessment is there for a reason, and that’s why the staff will yell to keep you behind the yellow line… whether you like it or not!

 

[leytongabriel]

Same issue at Bristol Parkway the other day. Extra wide area yellow-lined for fast trains passing but staff really losing it with passengers looking on in disbelief when stopping trains came in slowly or departed. Who is telling people to do this?

 

[father_jack]

Same issue at Bristol Parkway the other day. Extra wide area yellow-lined for fast trains passing but staff really losing it with passengers looking on in disbelief when stopping trains came in slowly or departed. Who is telling people to do this?

Their "competence" managers. It is a national directive going back many years but modern noise cancellling earbuds though make it way more emphatic.

 

[markymark2000]

For some station, why haven't we looked at retractable barriers which then get moved only for when it's needed? Top of Crewe P6, beyond the points, is never used except the Sleeper. Why not have barriers at the top end to push people further into the platform? Or even better, given P10 is long term out of use, widen P9 and 10 to create a new, larger two side bay platform. For trains of 2 or 3 carriages, have one side for alighting, one side for boarding. Get passengers flowing better as that doesn't help things, 150 people trying to get off a train and no one makes space to let others off the train.

For Piccadilly P13/14, given P13B is never used except one or two trains per day, barriers on that and encourage people to walk behind others on the platform rather than now where your choice is walk towards 13b, basically walking towards oncoming trains or cross over the yellow line on 14B because everyone insists on standing on the yellow line even if their train is 3 trains away.
Barriers in this instance would help to push people towards those areas.


Other stations I know would have other issues which this wouldnt solve but this could be a solution for some stations. It could only be done though where a platform is used infrequently as of course it's manual, time consuming work to retract the barriers at the appropriate times. When the barriers are in operation though, makes the platforms safer and reduces the issues with people being in an unsafe position.

 

[Leyland155]

I think some posters think the only approach staff take is straight to shouting. We make announcements about standing clear of the train if you are not intending to travel, we make calm announcements to remain behind yellow line. We also have to use of voices. There have been 100s of trains arrive and depart when I have not had to shout/speak to anyone. There have ofcourse been 100s where I have. People recalling an experience as a passenger when staff didn't shout is not an accurate picture of what happens throughout a shift. Unless they stood on platform all day. The next train after yours could have been very difficult for staff to manage the PTI and shouting may have occurred.

Exactly this. Having worked at Manchester Piccadilly as a dispatcher, I know several of those who work on P13/14 and they are considerate, well meaning, and generally very friendly people. However, they work on a severely curved island platform which, as others have mentioned, falls very short in meeting today's safety standards.

They nearly always use the PA as the first port of call, but unfortunately this often just blends into the general din of the station noise. I agree that politeness does go a long way (and I often do hear staff saying "please"), but despite what others may say, this is a very stressful job where staff are constantly under extreme scrutiny to ensure that the PTI is clear at all times other than when a train is boarding. If they let too many customers over the line before arrival of a train, it may be difficult to manage once one does, especially if it is non stop. As a dispatcher, I was extremely grateful for their help in keeping the PTI clear during the dispatch process, many trains and consequently customers would have been delayed without their assistance.

Another option would be to limit the number of customers waiting on P13/14 (as happens during extreme crowding), but this would generate its own complaints. As for comments made by others about staff themselves standing over the yellow line, with all due respect, they are safety critical trained and know these platforms better than any passenger.

 

[Silenos]

The Tube takes robust measures to manage platform loading…. Use of platform staff with bats and radio loudspeakers to help manage the PTI was also not uncommon in such stations.

Bats? Beating passengers who cross the line does sound robust, even more so than shouting at them!

 

[QueensCurve]

Why have Avanti platform staff at Crewe station taken to yelling at passengers to "stand behind the yellow line"? I use many, much busier, stations in south London where trains pass through more frequently and at higher speed than the platform lines at Crewe, and none of our train or station operators feel the need to do this.

What exactly is the perceived danger at Crewe? Pretty much all the trains passing the platforms are coming to a stop or pulling away again, moving at a max 25mph or so; anything that is going through fast will be on the non-platform through roads, apart from perhaps the odd freight but they are going through at a crawl too.
Surely, if anyone is straying too close to the platform edge a blast on the horn by the driver should persuade them to move back? Also, Avanti's yellow lines at Crewe seem to have been painted much further back from the platform edge than at most other stations.

The constant bawling and shouting at customers (ha!) hardly makes for a great ambience at a station that is already enough of a miserable hole in which to wait for a train.

Risk averse culture and a loss of corporate memory about why the yellow lines were painted in the first place.

The lines were put in from 1976 on platforms where passenger trains might pass at more than 100mph because of the aerodynamic dangers to passengers from very fast passing trains. I understand this was later extended to places where intermodal trains might pass at over 60mph. There has been a mission creep as to the purpose of the lines.

 

[Krokodil]

I'm surprised at the levels of self-entitlement on here, and derogatory comments about staff who are putting safety first. It's like the sort of comments you'd expect on Facebook or Twitter/X, not a rail forum.

I'm not surprised at all. I've seen the attitudes that some 'enthusiasts' display when asked (for example) not to go down the platform ramp to get their photographs.

Criticising them is like shouting at a driver of a car who is in front of you and obeying the speed limit

A very good analogy, given that the number of people who do just that is very high.

For Piccadilly P13/14, given P13B is never used except one or two trains per day, barriers on that and encourage people to walk behind others on the platform rather than now where your choice is walk towards 13b, basically walking towards oncoming trains or cross over the yellow line on 14B because everyone insists on standing on the yellow line even if their train is 3 trains away.
Barriers in this instance would help to push people towards those areas.

Trouble is that 13B/14B may get used at very short notice, so you'd have to take down and store whatever platform edge barriers you have in no time at all.

 

[trainJam]

I thought yellow lines were for passing trains and air turbulence which does make some sense.

It now seems to be a line to be conveniently used for dispatch whether or not it is intended for this purpose. This raises two issues:
Are lines placed for passing trains too far away to be used for dispatch?
Lines are placed at different distances which appears to be inconsistent when being used for dispatch.

We could have another line for dispatch although I'm not sure if we want any more colours/lines.

I was on a train calling at Rugby and it was quite alarming for us to hear shouting outside as if there was an emergency at the station. If this is how things are regularly then something isn't right.

Question for staff involved in dispatch - is the policy to use the line or is it a separate distance (e.g. everyone must be x metres from the train) to the yellow line turbulence distance(s)?

 

[Elecman]

Risk averse culture and a loss of corporate memory about why the yellow lines were painted in the first place.

The lines were put in from 1976 on platforms where passenger trains might pass at more than 100mph because of the aerodynamic dangers to passengers from very fast passing trains. I understand this was later extended to places where intermodal trains might pass at over 60mph. There has been a mission creep as to the purpose of the lines.

Absolutely 100%