Lumo borrowing a Hull trains unit for a service (25/08/23)

[Fastlane256]

I’ve just seen this pop into my Twitter feed. Anyone know what happened to the replaced unit? This is the first time I’ve seen a so short hire. https://twitter.com/LumoTravel/status/1694732551602974847?s=20

Tomorrow's 12:18 Kings Cross to Edinburgh service will be operated with a train on hire from Hull Trains. Unfortunately the seat reservation system will be unable to operate, but please only board this train if you have a prior reservation so we can try and accommodate everyone.

One unit is due its scheduled MOT checks & the other unit was involved in an incident needing repairs so we are using a train from Hull Trains. ^Kim

So Lumo have just tweeted me saying a unit was involved in an incident. Anyone know what that was?

 

[HarryF]

They did have a cancellation (yesterday, I think) with the reason being “more trains than usual requiring repair at the same time”. Are the 803s having reliability issues?

 

[Fastlane256]

They did have a cancellation (yesterday, I think) with the reason being “more trains than usual requiring repair at the same time”. Are the 803s having reliability issues?

I did see that. That was the same unit I believe according to RTT.

 

[Trainguy34]

What unit is going over from HT to Lumo?

I did see that. That was the same unit I believe according to RTT.

Can you send a link?

 

[Fastlane256]

I’ll see if I still have it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The irony in the tweet!

“please only board this train if you have a prior reservation so we can try and accommodate everyone”

- asking walk up tickets not to board is hardly “accommodat[ing] everyone”

 

[PGAT]

Are the 803s having reliability issues?

Maybe, maybe not. Bear in mind they only have 5 of these units

 

[800001]

One unit was involved in a fatality near Drem on Saturday, this unfortunately has damaged the unit and will take time to repair.

 

[DanNCL]

Lumo only have 5 units, they need 4 to run the timetable. As mentioned above one is long term out of use, which means unless the rest of the 803s had 100% availability (which they don’t) the only way to run the full timetable is to hire stock in from elsewhere. Hull Trains or TPE 802s are the logical choice as Lumo crews sign them and the units are already at Bounds Green and Craigentinny respectively.

 

[HarryF]

Lumo only have 5 units, they need 4 to run the timetable. As mentioned above one is long term out of use, which means unless the rest of the 803s had 100% availability (which they don’t) the only way to run the full timetable is to hire stock in from elsewhere. Hull Trains or TPE 802s are the logical choice as Lumo crews sign them and the units are already at Bounds Green and Craigentinny respectively.

Do you know how many Hull Trains require to run their timetable?

 

[JonathanH]

Do you know how many Hull Trains require to run their timetable?

Three to be able to run all their timetable, but an additional unit is used when they double up formations on selected services.

 

[HarryF]

Three to be able to run all their timetable, but an additional unit is used when they double up formations on selected services.

Thank you

 

[Fastlane256]

Lumo also have a unit in for checks.

 

[JonathanH]

803002, 803003 and 803004 in service today for Lumo. 0924 Edinburgh to Kings Cross and 1448 Kings Cross to Edinburgh cancelled.

803005 worked yesterday, finishing at Craigentinny.

0623 Edinburgh to Kings Cross cancelled tomorrow morning, with the Hull Trains unit working 1218 Kings Cross to Edinburgh. By timetable it should then go to Craigentinny for the night.

 

[Twingo37175]

803002, 803003 and 803004 in service today for Lumo. 0924 Edinburgh to Kings Cross and 1448 Kings Cross to Edinburgh cancelled.

803005 worked yesterday, finishing at Craigentinny.

0623 Edinburgh to Kings Cross cancelled tomorrow morning, with the Hull Trains unit working 1218 Kings Cross to Edinburgh. By timetable it should then go to Craigentinny for the night.

There is an ECS working (though under TPE) at 16:55 back to Bounds Green, I assume this will be the Hull Trains unit

 

[TheBigD]

Do you know how many Hull Trains require to run their timetable?

Three to be able to run all their timetable, but an additional unit is used when they double up formations on selected services.

3, except on Sundays when 4 are required.

 

[Rail Quest]

Just throwing a random thought out there - will the first class carriage be in use? If so, might be a cheeky way to get a first class "upgrade" if they'll let passengers in there.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Just throwing a random thought out there - will the first class carriage be in use? If so, might be a cheeky way to get a first class "upgrade" if they'll let passengers in there.

I don't know but surely they would?
It's seats and I think they're gonna need as many as they can get.

 

[danbarjon]

Lumo are definitely using First Class and it will be declassified tomorrow it has been confirmed on Twitter. But it’s still a shortage of seats. I can only say good luck to anyone booked on the train tomorrow because I can imagine the confusion.

 

[TheBigD]

67 seats less.
327 seats on the Hull Trains unit vs 394 seats on the Lumo unit.

 

[Energy]

Unsuprising, Lumo drivers were trained on TPE and Hull Trains 802s. The former now under OLR would be more difficult to sublease from.

Just throwing a random thought out there - will the first class carriage be in use? If so, might be a cheeky way to get a first class "upgrade" if they'll let passengers in there.

The Hull 802s only have 327 seats total compared to the 400 on an 803. They'll need all they can get. As there are no reservations I'd expect it to be first come first served.

 

[danbarjon]

67 seats less.
327 seats on the Hull Trains unit vs 394 seats on the Lumo unit.

It’s still a fair amount of people affected.

 

[JonathanH]

The former now under OLR would be more difficult to sublease from.

Even if TPE were still under First Group, Lumo would need to pay the full commercial cost to TPE to hire one of their 802s, as open access operations can't be subsidised by franchised operations.

In actual fact, it may be easier to borrow a unit from TPE under OLR in one way because the hire cost is more transparent. However, that depends on TPE having one spare in the right place. Noticeably, Lumo haven't been able to source a unit for the southbound journey tomorrow morning.

 

[800001]

Lumo are definitely using First Class and it will be declassified tomorrow it has been confirmed on Twitter. But it’s still a shortage of seats. I can only say good luck to anyone booked on the train tomorrow because I can imagine the confusion.

Better than running no train at all! Well done Lumo and HT for arranging.

 

[fgwrich]

Better than running no train at all! Well done Lumo and HT for arranging.

Indeed, the sheer scale of ridiculousness I’ve seen on social media from the railway community, you’d almost think why did Lumo even bother. Yes it’s short of seats, yes it’s not ideal, but a train is better than no train at all and cancelling the service (eg, See Grand Central).

 

[danbarjon]

Better than running no train at all! Well done Lumo and HT for arranging.

I must say I wish this was a thing that could be done more in the future with different operators.

 

[RollingStock19]

Lumo only have 5 units, they need 4 to run the timetable. As mentioned above one is long term out of use, which means unless the rest of the 803s had 100% availability (which they don’t) the only way to run the full timetable is to hire stock in from elsewhere. Hull Trains or TPE 802s are the logical choice as Lumo crews sign them and the units are already at Bounds Green and Craigentinny respectively.

No they don't, only a small handful of drivers are 802 competent.
1 unit is out for repair more than normal, due to a fatality on Sat.. I would hardly say that makes the fleet unreliable.

Indeed, the sheer scale of ridiculousness I’ve seen on social media from the railway community, you’d almost think why did Lumo even bother. Yes it’s short of seats, yes it’s not ideal, but a train is better than no train at all and cancelling the service (eg, See Grand Central).

Exactly!! Do you inconvenience 67 passengers, or 400 when you cancel the whole service?

Are the 803s having reliability issues?

Again, no.. 1 unit down more than normal due to a fatality doesn't make a reliability issue.

 

[Segedunum]

Service is now cancelled, presumably due to the pretty catastrophic disruption into the early hours of this morning due to a fatality near Newark.

No ticket acceptance at the moment, so other trains are going to be cosy.

 

[JonathanH]

802301 appears to have been stepped up to work the 1045 from Kings Cross instead.

Lumo ended up with only one unit in London overnight.

1613 from Edinburgh only got as far as Retford, terminated and picked up the 2027 from Kings Cross at Doncaster. 1958 from Edinburgh only got as far as Newcastle.

802301 appears on RTT to also be scheduled to work the 1613 from Edinburgh to London so it seems that they will end up with only one 803 in London tonight.

 

[Fastlane256]

Service is now cancelled, presumably due to the pretty catastrophic disruption into the early hours of this morning due to a fatality near Newark.

No ticket acceptance at the moment, so other trains are going to be cosy.

That’s a shame. I was looking forward to seeing that service occur. Newark always seems to have a fatality there. Has anyone else noticed that?