Avanti platform staff bawling at passengers

[bramling]

There's something about London gatelines. I'd say south of London is worst, they can barely grunt at you half the time. It's like they just went to London Buses for recruitment. (London bus drivers often similarly only grunt at you, in some cases because they were former Routemaster drivers who never had to talk to anyone anyway).

The LNR staff on 8-11 at Euston are always professional, though.

Most London gatelines are merely lethargic. Euston seems to be the exception in being both aggressive and obnoxious (as you say, LNwR excepted). It’s interesting how often the West Coast franchise seems to feature when it comes to problematic staff behaviour - and in a variety of settings too.

That said there are plenty of provincial gatelines or manned barriers which also fit into the “desperate” category - and then there’s Blackpool North!

 

[800001]

It isn't just an AWC thing. I've witnessed it at Doncaster, York and Retford (High Level) recently too. On a couple of occasions it happened on a platform where there was no train and none expected for roughly the next 20 minutes!

How do you know none were expected?
Trains can run at any time, just because they don’t appear on RTT or screens, doesn’t mean no trains are coming.

 

[richfoz84]

Seeing the idiots at stations daily, I think shouting at them is probably the best way to get their attention especially when the dispatcher is quite far away. People wander around in their own little world and have no clue what’s around them.. heads down
Looking at their phones.. earphones in.. on a phone call.. it’s the best way to get their attention immediately. Next time, maybe they’ll pay more attention to what they are doing and remember when they got shouted last time!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There's something about London gatelines. I'd say south of London is worst, they can barely grunt at you half the time. It's like they just went to London Buses for recruitment. (London bus drivers often similarly only grunt at you, in some cases because they were former Routemaster drivers who never had to talk to anyone anyway).

Yes, Paddington (GWR), King’s Cross, St Pancras (EMR, less so TL/SE) and Liverpool Street definitely have some very poor and rude gateline staff. Waterloo East has some shockingly lazy staff.

Not had any issues at mainline Waterloo (my most used terminal), Victoria, Charing Cross, London Bridge, Vauxhall, Fenchurch St.

Have once been blamed by an unpleasant gateline individual at Cannon Street for my ticket not working who claimed it was “ridiculous” to enter Platform One to return immediately to Platform Four, but there we go. I’ve seen Marylebone be difficult with some people but not me.

Manchester Piccadilly has some famously difficult and desperate gateline staff.

 

[bramling]

Seeing the idiots at stations daily, I think shouting at them is probably the best way to get their attention especially when the dispatcher is quite far away. People wander around in their own little world and have no clue what’s around them.. heads down
Looking at their phones.. earphones in.. on a phone call.. it’s the best way to get their attention immediately. Next time, maybe they’ll pay more attention to what they are doing and remember when they got shouted last time!

Disagree on this. Shouting has no place in a professional environment except to warn of a serious and imminent hazard. All it really serves to do is make staff look silly, and quite probably means people will be less inclined to take notice when that serious and imminent hazard does arise and requires immediate action.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It happens at many stations,it’s just that some staff are more anal about it than others, 2mm over the line and staff start shouting! I know why they do it and their managers will praise them for doing so but it’s not pleasant.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Disagree on this. Shouting has no place in a professional environment except to warn of a serious and imminent hazard. All it really serves to do is make staff look silly, and quite probably means people will be less inclined to take notice when that serious and imminent hazard does arise and requires immediate action.

Agreed

 

[greyman42]

I know why they do it and their managers will praise them for doing so but it’s not pleasant.

Why do they do it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

The constant bawling and shouting at customers (ha!) hardly makes for a great ambience at a station that is already enough of a miserable hole in which to wait for a train.

This along with some poor gateline staff, as mentioned in another thread, does make it sound like a miserable hole.

 

[Watershed]

It's rather telling that this nonsense doesn't happen abroad. It's a uniquely British disease.

 

[Bishopstone]

Does the railway hire loud and shouty people by preference, or accident, or out of desperation?

 

[Western Sunset]

I find Marylebone rather iffy, but then again the whole setup there is confusing to me. Trains being "double-platformed" and the departure platforms not being displayed until quite near departure time.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Why do they do it?

To keep the platform/train interface clear to mitigate risk. So:-
• nobody could come into contact with the moving train.
• staff can see clearly down the train during dispatch.
• helps prevent trap and drag.
If the person who dares to cross the line is quite far away on a busy platform then the dispatcher will exercise their lungs. Sadly this is the modern railway that fears litigation.

 

[Topological]

Manchester Piccadilly has blue (I think) lines behind the yellow lines on the terminal platforms in the main shed. When the inevitable TfW 150 is due it is a free for all and no one is about to stand behind the blue one (well some do, but they tend not to get a seat).

It is interesting they think anyone would wait that far back knowing that it would be easy for someone to just walk up the platform in front of them. IF we are moving to a lines system surely it should be alighting passengers going furthest from the track while waiting passengers are nearest to the train?

 

[Segedunum]

I think I only ever shouted for two reasons at people when I was working on gates/stations. The first was people pretending to shove each other in front of an approaching train, and the other was interfering with escalators/deliberately running up/down the wrong one etc etc. Basically, it was done when there was an obvious risk to safety.

Screaming at people for daring to have a toe over a yellow (or red, in the case of Picc P13/P14) line just makes for a hostile atmosphere and increases the risk of confrontation. I got shouted at enough by ticketless passengers, drunks, and then just about everyone when the service fell over. I didn't have the energy to start making arguments of my own. Naturally, some were a little more enthusiastic, but it was those that would come to grief more often and end up in silly arguments or risking assaults.

As a passenger now, I tend to ignore anyone who's obviously screaming for the sake of screaming. Trying to dispatch a train, yes, you want people out of the way, but a foot over the line on an empty platform or trying to get past a blockage/object/person in the way isn't a reason to be unpleasant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Manchester Piccadilly has blue (I think) lines behind the yellow lines on the terminal platforms in the main shed. When the inevitable TfW 150 is due it is a free for all and no one is about to stand behind the blue one (well some do, but they tend not to get a seat).

Blue lines as well? For goodness' sake. Can we have a pink one the other side of the street? Maybe an orange one only applicable to TfGM sponsored services?

Just put the yellow line at a safe standback distance and hatch "railside" of it.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I see it a lot and I think it looks very unprofessional every time.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Disagree on this. Shouting has no place in a professional environment except to warn of a serious and imminent hazard. All it really serves to do is make staff look silly, and quite probably means people will be less inclined to take notice when that serious and imminent hazard does arise and requires immediate action.

Also, one wonders what would happen if there was a genuine emergency. The idiot with headphones in about to be mown down by a passing Pendolino would probably just think: 'Oh, it's only those Avanti bustards shouting again for no reason...'

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

To keep the platform/train interface clear to mitigate risk. So:-
• nobody could come into contact with the moving train.
• staff can see clearly down the train during dispatch.
• helps prevent trap and drag.
If the person who dares to cross the line is quite far away on a busy platform then the dispatcher will exercise their lungs. Sadly this is the modern railway that fears litigation.

Surely you can put up notices and, if necessary, have your staff POLITELY request people to stand behind the yellow lines. Job done from a litigation point of view.
I don't think there's anything in the law that says you have to behave as if you were running a North Korean re-education camp.

 

[Trackman]

Disagree on this. Shouting has no place in a professional environment except to warn of a serious and imminent hazard. All it really serves to do is make staff look silly, and quite probably means people will be less inclined to take notice when that serious and imminent hazard does arise and requires immediate action.

Exactly, great post.

It happens at many stations,it’s just that some staff are more anal about it than others, 2mm over the line and staff start shouting! I know why they do it and their managers will praise them for doing so but it’s not pleasant.

I've seen it when you are behind the line! Is it because as I am going to charge or something? 'Stay behind the line' me: 'I am?? what's the problem?'

 

[Master29]

Seems to be the norm at Truro. I`m sure he was either once the town crier or maybe one in the making.

 

[12LDA28C]

I find Marylebone rather iffy, but then again the whole setup there is confusing to me. Trains being "double-platformed" and the departure platforms not being displayed until quite near departure time.

If you can suggest a better way of departing trains within the constraints of a six-platform London terminus which can get extremely busy, I'm sure Chiltern would be keen to hear it. If the platform is not displayed until near departure time it's because either the train to form the service has not arrived yet, the train ahead of it in the same platform has not yet departed or the train simply isn't ready for service yet.

 

[SteveyBee131]

How do you know none were expected?
Trains can run at any time, just because they don’t appear on RTT or screens, doesn’t mean no trains are coming.

I don't. I also don't know on what planet it's socially acceptable to shout at complete strangers and not be seen as rude.

(I do however know not to take screens, RTT, whatever electronic means of conveying train information I decide to use as gospel, especially in safety critical situations)

 

[Jonny]

Probably the same paranoia and lack of courtesy that Manchester Picadilly platform 14 staff share.

As ever, if you don't know how to gain attention and control situations politely, why did you bother applying for a customer-facing job?

They are setting themselves up to be recorded on video, which may then be pejoratively edited before being put on the internet.

 

[bramling]

If you can suggest a better way of departing trains within the constraints of a six-platform London terminus which can get extremely busy, I'm sure Chiltern would be keen to hear it. If the platform is not displayed until near departure time it's because either the train to form the service has not arrived yet, the train ahead of it in the same platform has not yet departed or the train simply isn't ready for service yet.

I’ve never found Marylebone rude, just a bit lethargic at times. I’ve always just shrugged it off as another example of Chiltern not being quite as holier-than-thou as they’re sometimes made out to be.

In terms of actually making the place work better, one solution would be fewer but longer trains, where practicable.

 

[RailWonderer]

Same thing at Rugby and Warrington I can confirm. It seems to ba a cultural (*ahem staff training) thing on Avanti to yell or at least gesture grandly to passengers to get back.

When it comes to Avanti, their gateline Euston staff are so vile and inhumane that I think they make Crewe seem like puppies.

They give you the interrogation if you
a) arrive at your platform too early
b) present your ticket without a railcard

They will then ask you where you are changing trains at and why are you using a specific route and will tell you what time you can return. If you satify them, they will grunt at you or at most, give you a nod.

 

[AndrewE]

Why have Avanti platform staff at Crewe station taken to yelling at passengers to "stand behind the yellow line"? I use many, much busier, stations in south London where trains pass through more frequently and at higher speed than the platform lines at Crewe, and none of our train or station operators feel the need to do this.

What exactly is the perceived danger at Crewe? Pretty much all the trains passing the platforms are coming to a stop or pulling away again, moving at a max 25mph or so; anything that is going through fast will be on the non-platform through roads, apart from perhaps the odd freight but they are going through at a crawl too.
Surely, if anyone is straying too close to the platform edge a blast on the horn by the driver should persuade them to move back? Also, Avanti's yellow lines at Crewe seem to have been painted much further back from the platform edge than at most other stations.

The constant bawling and shouting at customers (ha!) hardly makes for a great ambience at a station that is already enough of a miserable hole in which to wait for a train.

I saw it (again) on Saturday too... with the staff member standing half way between the yellow line and the platform edge with his back to an approaching train!
It's been like this for at least a year, and I have answered back on a few occasions. "I have observed the signals, [I am only here temporarily] and I know there is no train approaching - and I was probably PTS trained before you were born!"

I moved away quickly to avoid getting arrested for daring to challenge a numpty who couldn't risk-assess a sponge cake, let alone a plum pudding ("Is there likely to be a stone in it which could break a tooth?"

 

[Dave91131]

The comments in this thread illustrate perfectly yet another reason why travelling by train just isn't a pleasant or even worthwhile experience any more.

Platform staff on a power trip yelling at people who a lot of the time won't hear them anyway due to being "plugged in" in one way or another.

Whilst at Doncaster the winter before last I witnessed a young female member of platform staff shout at someone to get behind the yellow line, then almost immediately proceed to stand the wrong side of it herself whilst seemingly texting on her phone.

I contacted the TOC whose uniform she was wearing, quoting the platform number and time etc and inviting them to review the CCTV footage if any was available.

I hope she was suitably disciplined.

 

[py_megapixel]

Same at Milton Keynes. Heard the Avanti platform staff bellowing at people (and cutting off the trains auto announcement at the same time) using those walkie talkie microphones a fair few times.

This is one of my pet peeves. The auto announcer is there for a reason. If it's providing inaccurate information then talk over it and correct it (don't talk over it and say something irrelevant). Otherwise, let it do its job!

 

[greyman42]

The comments in this thread illustrate perfectly yet another reason why travelling by train just isn't a pleasant or even worthwhile experience any more.

Platform staff on a power trip yelling at people who a lot of the time won't hear them anyway due to being "plugged in" in one way or another.

Whilst at Doncaster the winter before last I witnessed a young female member of platform staff shout at someone to get behind the yellow line, then almost immediately proceed to stand the wrong side of it herself whilst seemingly texting on her phone.

I contacted the TOC whose uniform she was wearing, quoting the platform number and time etc and inviting them to review the CCTV footage if any was available.

I hope she was suitably disciplined.

Not a chance.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

They give you the interrogation if you
a) arrive at your platform too early

I've never had any problem with the staff at Euston, when I've used P1/2/3 the gates have been open and I've just walked onto the platform unquestioned.
And that's half an hour (if not more) before the train leaves.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Does the railway hire loud and shouty people by preference, or accident, or out of desperation?

Its part of their inadequate training