Avanti platform staff bawling at passengers

[Shimbleshanks]

Why have Avanti platform staff at Crewe station taken to yelling at passengers to "stand behind the yellow line"? I use many, much busier, stations in south London where trains pass through more frequently and at higher speed than the platform lines at Crewe, and none of our train or station operators feel the need to do this.

What exactly is the perceived danger at Crewe? Pretty much all the trains passing the platforms are coming to a stop or pulling away again, moving at a max 25mph or so; anything that is going through fast will be on the non-platform through roads, apart from perhaps the odd freight but they are going through at a crawl too.
Surely, if anyone is straying too close to the platform edge a blast on the horn by the driver should persuade them to move back? Also, Avanti's yellow lines at Crewe seem to have been painted much further back from the platform edge than at most other stations.

The constant bawling and shouting at customers (ha!) hardly makes for a great ambience at a station that is already enough of a miserable hole in which to wait for a train.

 

[dingdinger]

Why have Avanti platform staff at Crewe station taken to yelling at passengers to "stand behind the yellow line"? I use many, much busier, stations in south London where trains pass through more frequently and at higher speed than the platform lines at Crewe, and none of our train or station operators feel the need to do this.

What exactly is the perceived danger at Crewe? Pretty much all the trains passing the platforms are coming to a stop or pulling away again, moving at a max 25mph or so; anything that is going through fast will be on the non-platform through roads, apart from perhaps the odd freight but they are going through at a crawl too.
Surely, if anyone is straying too close to the platform edge a blast on the horn by the driver should persuade them to move back? Also, Avanti's yellow lines at Crewe seem to have been painted much further back from the platform edge than at most other stations.

The constant bawling and shouting at customers (ha!) hardly makes for a great ambience at a station that is already enough of a miserable hole in which to wait for a train.

When I saw the title Crewe came into my head straight away. Safety comes first but I know what you mean about the shouting.

 

[TUC]

Probably the same paranoia and lack of courtesy that Manchester Picadilly platform 14 staff share.

As ever, if you don't know how to gain attention and control situations politely, why did you bother applying for a customer-facing job?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen (well, heard) this at multiple Avanti stations now plus Northallerton. They seem to have been told not to give either tip until there is nobody between yellow line and train (not that I'm arguing with that), and judging by how aggressive some are about it, have been told to be as rude as they want even if it's obvious that there's a crowd and they'll just have to wait. That or they've all had lessons from the rentathugs on Manchester Picc P13/14.

Some ideas on how it might be better solved than barking orders at people: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-behind-the-yellow-line-for-departure.253443/

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Probably the same paranoia and lack of courtesy that Manchester Picadilly platform 14 staff share.

As ever, if you don't know how to gain attention and control situations politely, why did you bother applying for a customer-facing job?

Well, they have managed to find at least half a dozen people, all with the same lack of people skills. Have they recruited them direct from the Army, or the Prison Service?

 

[SargeNpton]

Same with Avanti staff at Coventry on two separate dates in the last 7-10 days. Can only think that it's a company wide practice.

 

[FOH]

We had the same thing when London Overground started running. Loudhailers on every platform. They eventually disappeared after a couple of months never to be seen (or heard from) again.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I've seen (well, heard) this at multiple Avanti stations now plus Northallerton

I use Northallerton a fair bit and the platforms aren't that wide at certain points especially on the down in front of the building with the stairs in it. Couple that with closely spaced trains (including a stopper close behind a fast), a high linespeed, and people waiting with headphones on and occasionally I worry something awful might happen

 

[185]

Visiting Crewe seems to be a favourite for ORR staff/nuisances. They insisted on 2 person dispatch for all Pendolinos, and keeping people back essential, especially given the absence of tactile paving and high passenger footfall.

Given the James St manslaughter case it easy to understand why regulator, operator and the unions reasonably agree on keeping the "platform train interface" (oh dear) 100% clear.

It may be an unpopular view but I feel they should demolish the lot, send the signals & box to Holland in a scrap barge and rebuild Crewe from scratch albeit sympathetically. Perhaps an economy demolition as was done at Northwich, just slam the waiting room door too hard, it'll all fall down anyway... Ahem

 

[Bletchleyite]

Visiting Crewe seems to be a favourite for ORR staff/nuisances. They insisted on 2 person dispatch for all Pendolinos, and keeping people back essential, especially given the absence of tactile paving and high passenger footfall.

Given the James St manslaughter case it easy to understand why regulator operator and the unions reasonably agree on keeping the "platform train interface" (oh dear) 100% clear.

I don't have an issue with that, it seems sensible. What doesn't is bawling at people rather than designing an effective system to influence behaviour (see also Manchester Picc P13/14). See my speculative thread linked above if you have ideas

It may be an unpopular view but I feel they should demolish the lot, send the signals & box to Holland in a scrap barge and rebuild Crewe from scratch albeit sympathetically. Perhaps an economy demolition as was done at Northwich, just slam the waiting room door too hard, itll all fall down anyway... Ahem

HS2 originally did include a new Crewe, pretty much. Would be good, but we are where we are.

 

[Vespa]

Well, they have managed to find at least half a dozen people, all with the same lack of people skills. Have they recruited them direct from the Army, or the Prison Service?

I would say from my experience the Army, can't comment on Prison Service I would imagine similar, we don't shout continuously and treat people like crap, it would be counterproductive, squaddies will only tune it out and passenger will do the same, the time for shouting is for orders or safety related warnings, no other time are for gratuitous shouting, you lose control if you do.

Forget all these Army films full of shouting, it's not factual.

 

[Ibex]

Same at Milton Keynes. Heard the Avanti platform staff bellowing at people (and cutting off the trains auto announcement at the same time) using those walkie talkie microphones a fair few times.

 

[penguin8967]

Always get this at Bristol Parkway over the PA, particularly as the island platforms are fairly narrow so not much space to fit behind the yellow line.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

I would say from my experience the Army, can't comment on Prison Service I would imagine similar, we don't shout continuously and treat people like crap, it would be counterproductive, squaddies will only tune it out and passenger will do the same, the time for shouting is for orders or safety related warnings, no other time are for gratuitous shouting, you lose control if you do.

Forget all these Army films full of shouting, it's not factual.

Ah, obviously I'm biased by my father's accounts of his military service in 1940-45. Times must have changed...

 

[HarryF]

My worry with platform staff yelling at passengers is it will one day lead to a passenger assaulting a staff member.
I was on Manchester Piccadilly platform 14 pre-Covid and the dispatcher yelled at a man, who in turn proceeded to go right up to the dispatcher and threaten them. It was one step away from a punching. If dispatch is such an issue, isn’t it time to re-write the timetable to give it more time?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

My worry with platform staff yelling at passengers is it will one day lead to a passenger assaulting a staff member.
I was on Manchester Piccadilly platform 14 pre-Covid and the dispatcher yelled at a man, who in turn proceeded to go right up to the dispatcher and threaten them. It was one step away from a punching. If dispatch is such an issue, isn’t it time to re-write the timetable to give it more time?

It isn't about time etc.

It's primarily about people being dragged/sucked under a train, falling under one - and reducing the likelihood of either of these things happening. People walk around with their headphones in, engrossed in their mobile phone or looking at signs etc, rather than the Pendolino silently approaching from behind.

The railway has become ever more risk adverse as litigation and legal responsibilities have become ever become onerous, complex and costly.

 

[12LDA28C]

Why have Avanti platform staff at Crewe station taken to yelling at passengers to "stand behind the yellow line"? I use many, much busier, stations in south London where trains pass through more frequently and at higher speed than the platform lines at Crewe, and none of our train or station operators feel the need to do this.

What exactly is the perceived danger at Crewe? Pretty much all the trains passing the platforms are coming to a stop or pulling away again, moving at a max 25mph or so; anything that is going through fast will be on the non-platform through roads, apart from perhaps the odd freight but they are going through at a crawl too.
Surely, if anyone is straying too close to the platform edge a blast on the horn by the driver should persuade them to move back? Also, Avanti's yellow lines at Crewe seem to have been painted much further back from the platform edge than at most other stations.

The constant bawling and shouting at customers (ha!) hardly makes for a great ambience at a station that is already enough of a miserable hole in which to wait for a train.

It's not just Avanti, or at Crewe. I saw the same thing at Aberdeen with railtour participants being shouted at to 'stand back' whilst taking photos of a stationary train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It isn't about time etc.

It is about more time. On these small platforms, if this is being done strictly you need a much longer dwell to allow the alighting passengers to clear the platform fully, rather than just get off, to ensure that the yellow line area is clear. You can huff and puff and bawl all you like, but if people are filtering up the stairs this takes time.

Birmingham New St is one example of a station where you'll not be able to dispatch until the crowd has dispersed, and so the timetable needs to consider that. Liverpool Central is another.

 

[SteveyBee131]

It isn't just an AWC thing. I've witnessed it at Doncaster, York and Retford (High Level) recently too. On a couple of occasions it happened on a platform where there was no train and none expected for roughly the next 20 minutes!

 

[randyrippley]

You can add Wigan NW, and Lancaster to the list of hyperexcited platform shouters.

 

[BrummieBobby]

Why have platform staff at many stations resorted to shouting at passengers? Quite simply, have you seen the idiocy of some members of the general public?

Given that much safety critical work essentially involves staff protecting people (sometimes uncooperative, unaware or intoxicated) from their own stupidity, with little in the way of guidance or support from their management (Other than the usual guff around putting customers first) I am not surprised that some staff are inflexible.

 

[Skiddaw]

I noticed recently that the Avanti staff at Penrith have taken to doing it too (but they do shout fairly quietly)

 

[Geezertronic]

I've been bawled at by Avanti staff at Rugby before when I was taking avoiding action around a pushchair and strayed 5cm into the yellow line area

 

[75A]

I would say from my experience the Army, can't comment on Prison Service I would imagine similar, we don't shout continuously and treat people like crap, it would be counterproductive, squaddies will only tune it out and passenger will do the same, the time for shouting is for orders or safety related warnings, no other time are for gratuitous shouting, you lose control if you do.

Forget all these Army films full of shouting, it's not factual.

You obviously weren't in Ulster during 'the troubles' then

 

[Bletchleyite]

I noticed recently that the Avanti staff at Penrith have taken to doing it too (but they so shout fairly quietly)

At least one of the Penrith members of staff is an example of the worst - got accusatory at me (quite rude and confrontational, not "Excuse me, please, sir, could I just ask what you're taking a photo of there?") for being a terrorist because I was taking a photo of the old (listed) manual departure board, allegedly thought I was taking photos of the security cameras which are nowhere near it. Bizarre.

By contrast as I've mentioned elsewhere I was once asked by BTP where I was going at Euston and they were impeccably polite and professional.

 

[bleeder4]

Preston is bad for this as well. It's truly shocking how rude the staff can be. Yelling at the top of their voices down the platform at people when they set so much as a single toe over the line. I've even seen them do it to elderly people using walking aids. No respect whatsoever.

 

[bramling]

My worry with platform staff yelling at passengers is it will one day lead to a passenger assaulting a staff member.
I was on Manchester Piccadilly platform 14 pre-Covid and the dispatcher yelled at a man, who in turn proceeded to go right up to the dispatcher and threaten them. It was one step away from a punching. If dispatch is such an issue, isn’t it time to re-write the timetable to give it more time?

My own view is that the best way to handle aggressively shouted instructions is to completely ignore them. I once did this to very good effect with a member of station staff at Huddersfield who was shouting across the tracks about taking photographs, we completely ignored him, which led to him getting more irate, to the point where he ended up making a total fool of himself in front of a lot of people.

Having said all this, in the case of the original matter if staff are simply following instructions regarding dispatch then it’s more of an awkward one - as the staff are essentially being placed in a difficult position. I’d imagine the majority of staff *don’t* take pleasure at shouting their heads off.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2023 ==

You can add Wigan NW, and Lancaster to the list of hyperexited platform shouters.

Definitely company policy then, Lancaster has always been very chilled IME.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m willing to bet money Cardiff Central’s dispatchers are louder, ruder and far more utterly obnoxious. Awful and repulsive people, and I said as much when recently featuring in a video about (and produced in conjunction with) TfW.

When it comes to Avanti, their gateline Euston staff are so vile and inhumane that I think they make Crewe seem like puppies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When it comes to Avanti, their gateline Euston staff are so vile and inhumane that I think they make Crewe seem like puppies.

There's something about London gatelines. I'd say south of London is worst, they can barely grunt at you half the time. It's like they just went to London Buses for recruitment. (London bus drivers often similarly only grunt at you, in some cases because they were former Routemaster drivers who never had to talk to anyone anyway).

The LNR staff on 8-11 at Euston are always professional, though.

 

[greyman42]

It isn't just an AWC thing. I've witnessed it at Doncaster, York and Retford (High Level) recently too. On a couple of occasions it happened on a platform where there was no train and none expected for roughly the next 20 minutes!

I have witnessed staff at York asking passengers to move back but it was not shouting.
The same at Newcastle after a football match. If a train is cancelled/delayed, the platforms can become packed.