UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[jon0844]

I like the idea of car clubs, but there's no such scheme anywhere near me (and not likely to ever be one - there was a plan to introduce a cycle hire scheme and even that failed to get off the ground). Even in London they seem quite well spread out, so you'd likely need to use a bus or cab to get to your car - and you must leave them in designated bays, which if used means an even longer walk/bus/tube/train ride.

Old school car hire companies are dabbling in this field now, but they're charging too much IMO.

 

[The Ham]

I like the idea of car clubs, but there's no such scheme anywhere near me (and not likely to ever be one - there was a plan to introduce a cycle hire scheme and even that failed to get off the ground). Even in London they seem quite well spread out, so you'd likely need to use a bus or cab to get to your car - and you must leave them in designated bays, which if used means an even longer walk/bus/tube/train ride.

Old school car hire companies are dabbling in this field now, but they're charging too much IMO.

Indeed, they are unlikely to be viable for everyone. However, there's research which suggests that for each car club car it can remove 8 to 16 cars from the roads.

Mostly the benefits are two fold, firstly the reduced space needed to store cars, secondly there's often a sight reduction in miles traveled - as people don't wish to pay for short trips they can make by other modes.

 

[jon0844]

I think the problem is that it has to be sufficiently profitable to expand, and until it expands it won't be enticing for a lot of people. Perhaps rather than loads of competing companies, there needs to be a more organised system with larger bays, and the ability to 'roam' by using other cars (maybe at a slightly higher price initially) so that over time, you may actually stand a chance of getting a car.

And if they get more popular, it will get even more frustrating, so it's sort of good that they're not too popular - but then that leads to profitability and sustainability. A lot of these type of companies get a load of funding and then when it runs out they go bust.

 

[renegademaster]

It has nothing to do what type of property you live in (I live in a semi and it has a drive) but rather whether it has dedicated parking (which I believe is about 65% of households in the UK but happy to be corrected) or not. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere all new (and major refurbished) housing sites over 10 units in England have to provide EV charging or cable runs regardless of whether they are flats, terraced, semis or detached. If a current house doesn’t have dedicated parking one solution is lamp post (or similar) charging but that does require wider permissions. This has happened/is ongoing in London and few other places. Going forward other options might include the installation of charging gullies across/under pavements (although I think this will only work in certain places/streets) and longer term inductive charging.

Good thing that adequate new housing is being built so that everyone will be able to adapt in time...

 

[AM9]

Good thing that adequate new housing is being built so that everyone will be able to adapt in time...

If you are being facetious, as is customary, please indicate. If you are not, please provide evidence that what you say is true.

 

[renegademaster]

If you are being facetious, as is customary, please indicate. If you are not, please provide evidence that what you say is true.

I thought my sarcasm would be quite obvious sorry

 

[Noddy]

Good thing that adequate new housing is being built so that everyone will be able to adapt in time...

Well the ban was announced in 2020 (and it was well known before this) and petrol hybrid cars will be available to buy new until 2035 and run well beyond this date. So that’s the best part of two decades for people to ‘adapt in time’.

 

[Noddy]

@trebor79 and anyone else with a Tesla or near an open supercharger (sadly I’m neither!). In case you haven’t seen it already-free charging till 11pm tonight.

https://twitter.com/teslaeurope/status/1696417404761559356

 

[trebor79]

@trebor79 and anyone else with a Tesla or near an open supercharger (sadly I’m neither!). In case you haven’t seen it already-free charging till 11pm tonight.

https://twitter.com/teslaeurope/status/1696417404761559356

I saw it a couple of hours ago. But I'm at 41% battery so would save about 8 quid, and decided I'd rather have some plonk with dinner. And I bet the sites will be rammed anyway, and probably full of idiots charging to 100% (which takes aaaages).

 

[MasterSpenny]

To sum the thread title up - no its not realistic. People are just gonna continue use old bangers that are going to be like 35 years old and then also if more filling stations open…
hydrogen could take up part of it!! (Believe it was mentioned in the ‘What car should I buy’ thread that we are down to two filling stations)

But we know full ZE is realistic (but it’s probably not until 2047 when one non ZE veichle at that time its gonna look like a threat)

 

[AM9]

To sum the thread title up - no its not realistic. People are just gonna continue use old bangers that are going to be like 35 years old and then also if more filling stations open…
hydrogen could take up part of it!! (Believe it was mentioned in the ‘What car should I buy’ thread that we are down to two filling stations)

But we know full ZE is realistic (but it’s probably not until 2047 when one non ZE veichle at that time its gonna look like a threat)

I doubt very much that the picture you paint will actually be reality, mainly because running an IC vehicle will become increasingly expensive before 2040. If the goverment wants to push those off the roads there will be plenty nudges that they can use.

 

[Energy]

I doubt very much that the picture you paint will actually be reality, mainly because running an IC vehicle will become increasingly expensive before 2040. If the goverment wants to push those off the roads there will be plenty nudges that they can use.

I don't think the government will need to do much more themselves. The main roadblock was the high cost of EVs, the MG4 has proved that an affordable EV is possible and we are starting to see good EVs appear on the used market for good prices (e208s can now be found for ~£15k).

Petrol cars are not that cheap now, a Polo is only a couple grand less than the MG4.

 

[jon0844]

And petrol prices are rising again, and I expect that even with a cut in the future after it becomes a news story (not much chatter right now), it is going to be a two step forwards, one step back, process until it is simply too costly for most people. Unless Rishi proves his love for petrolheads and slashes duty, which of course he will not.

Electricity rates can of course go up too, and oil companies offering EV charging can raise prices to whatever they want (arguing the premium is for the speed, not the electricity) but people can invest in solar or batteries to charge at home using free or cheaper (eg a flexible electricity plan from the likes of Octopus) electricity, widening the gap over ICE even more.

 

[Noddy]

To sum the thread title up - no its not realistic. People are just gonna continue use old bangers that are going to be like 35 years old and then also if more filling stations open…
hydrogen could take up part of it!! (Believe it was mentioned in the ‘What car should I buy’ thread that we are down to two filling stations)

But we know full ZE is realistic (but it’s probably not until 2047 when one non ZE veichle at that time its gonna look like a threat)

I find it massively amusing that you don’t think the UK switching to electric vehicles is realistic, but yet you think hydrogen cars ‘could be part of it’ when it’s absolutely obvious to everyone (finally even Toyota) that hydrogen cars are not going to be part of it. That’s why the hydrogen filling stations in the UK are closing (despite the tax payer funding they received).

I really don’t get what the fuss was about hydrogen cars. The only advantage over a battery car is they are faster at refuelling (although with the added hazard of freezing your hand off) but if you charge your BEV at home or local street this is no advantage at all. For everything else there was no real benefit over battery EVs. The fuel cell of a hydrogen car has a limited lifespan so if you’re worried about replacing an expensive battery you’d also need to worry about replacing an expensive fuel cell. For the petrol heads they’re no better as they use the same types of electric motors as BEVs so both have the same driving experience, and in terms of the environment they’re worse has they require far more electricity to be produced from clean sources (and production this way isn’t currently economically viable) or use cheap hydrogen from dirty sources.

 

[jon0844]

The fossil fuel industry wanted hydrogen to work, just as they're now trying to push e-fuels/smart fuels. I am sure they're still bank rolling certain groups to push for it, even though I think the battle is lost.

I thought it might be feasible for lorries or coaches, as batteries add weight that impacts payload, but I'm not sure that's even going to be a thing.

 

[trebor79]

I really don’t get what the fuss was about hydrogen cars. The only advantage over a battery car is they are faster at refuelling

Exactly. And in the meantime battery technology has moved on and we have cars that can recharge at 200kW or faster.
Reality of driving a Tesla is that I need to stop more frequently than the car needs to charge, and I've never spent more than about 20 minutes charging, which is about as long as it take to relieve myself in the facilities, buy a cup of tea and wander back to the car. Faster would be of no practical benefit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Petrol cars are not that cheap now, a Polo is only a couple grand less than the MG4.

VW is a premium marque (not quite as premium as BMW, Merc or Audi, but certainly heading that way) and MG is a budget one. I think comparing the MG4/5 and the equivalent e.g. Dacias or Kias is more informative, and particularly the former are very cheap as petrols indeed.

 

[AM9]

VW is a premium marque (not quite as premium as BMW, Merc or Audi, but certainly heading that way) and MG is a budget one. I think comparing the MG4/5 and the equivalent e.g. Dacias or Kias is more informative, and particularly the former are very cheap as petrols indeed.

I wouldn't call VWs premium, that's Audi territory really, they are more run of the mill with a high (German) price tag. Seat and Skoda are as near as makes no difference at slightly lower prices from the VAG stable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't call VWs premium, that's Audi territory really, they are more run of the mill with a high (German) price tag.

Either way they're not in the same market as MG, which was once British Leyland's sport marque but is now a budget one.

 

[AM9]

Either way they're not in the same market as MG, which was once British Leyland's sport marque but is now a budget one.

Well, their first EV attempt, the ID3 was over embellished with cheap to include software gadgets which weren't that well received, so in the future market, VW might not be the powerhouse it once was.

 

[Roast Veg]

I thought it might be feasible for lorries or coaches, as batteries add weight that impacts payload, but I'm not sure that's even going to be a thing.

The zero emission truck market is still embryonic, but it's looking like it will settle on the side of batteries, since they can piggy back on some of the infrastructure and knowledge of the BEV industry. There are still some standardisation issues outstanding for megawatt charging, but given that fleets can and will be replaced wholesale it's pretty likely that the market will catch up quite fast.

 

[Energy]

I wouldn't call VWs premium, that's Audi territory really, they are more run of the mill with a high (German) price tag. Seat and Skoda are as near as makes no difference at slightly lower prices from the VAG stable.

Indeed, the Polo still doesn't come with climate control as standard, only manual air conditioning. The Skoda Fabia is slightly cheaper.

Well, their first EV attempt, the ID3 was over embellished with cheap to include software gadgets which wasn't that well received, so in the future market, VW might not be the powerhouse it once was.

Indeed, the ID3 really doesn't feel that premium. Bits like the climate controls being shifted on screen show VWs priority on cost.

The zero emission truck market is still embryonic, but it's looking like it will settle on the side of batteries, since they can piggy back on some of the infrastructure and knowledge of the BEV industry.

We are starting to see BEV on closer distance trucks, like bin lorries or ones delivering building materials.

 

[trebor79]

Either way they're not in the same market as MG, which was once British Leyland's sport marque but is now a budget one.

The ICE MGs are pretty awful. I had a petrol ZS as a hire car and pulling way you could hear gearbox whine like I haven't heard since the 1980's, and totally gutless engine. Their EV's however are very good indeed and the interiors are no lower quality than VW, if a little plain.

 

[david1212]

Either way they're not in the same market as MG, which was once British Leyland's sport marque but is now a budget one.

The ICE MGs are pretty awful. I had a petrol ZS as a hire car and pulling way you could hear gearbox whine like I haven't heard since the 1980's, and totally gutless engine. Their EV's however are very good indeed and the interiors are no lower quality than VW, if a little plain.

The ZS though was not a stand-alone model but based on the Rover 45, likewise the ZR was based on the 25. I can't recall how long-in-the-tooth the platforms were. 15 or so years before there were MG badged versions of the Metro, Maestro and Montego.

After demise of the Midget and MGB around 1980 the only stand-alone MG was the MGF introduced in the mid-1990's.

Nanjing Automobile / SAIC Motor initially had some production at Longbridge based on the platforms inherited for a few years. Once that ended MG was totally budget Chinese imports that as stated can not be compared in any way to the stand-alone or even Rover Group based cars produced before 2005.

If I had the funds and found a MG was significantly cheaper than any comparable European produced car on a PCP for at most 4 years I would seriously consider. I would not buy outright new with a 10 year ownership view or used with a view of ownership until 10 years old.

 

[Energy]

The ZS though was not a stand-alone model but based on the Rover 45, likewise the ZR was based on the 25. I can't recall how long-in-the-tooth the platforms were. 15 or so years before there were MG badged versions of the Metro, Maestro and Montego.

Wrong MG ZS

2001-2005 MG ZS @david1212 is referring to

2017-... MG ZS @trebor79 is referring to

The ICE MGs are pretty awful. I had a petrol ZS as a hire car and pulling way you could hear gearbox whine like I haven't heard since the 1980's, and totally gutless engine. Their EV's however are very good indeed and the interiors are no lower quality than VW, if a little plain.

Indeed, their original ICE ones weren't good. The interior of modern VWs feels fairly plain as well.

 

[tomuk]

The current MG ZS is basically an old generation Vauxhall\Opel Mokka.

 

[MotCO]

The current MG ZS is basically an old generation Vauxhall\Opel Mokka.

Really - never knew that!



Picture of Vauxhall Mokka

 

[DustyBin]

Really - never knew that!

View attachment 141906

Picture of Vauxhall Mokka

I wasn't aware of that either.... Not exactly a great starting point!

 

[Energy]

I wasn't aware of that either.... Not exactly a great starting point!

I'm struggling to find any evidence of it either. GM and SAIC are unaffiliated and I'm not getting any search results with both cars.

 

[gg1]

I'm struggling to find any evidence of it either. GM and SAIC are unaffiliated and I'm not getting any search results with both cars.

I'm not convinced it is. Comparing the two cars there are some design similarities with the bonnet shape being the main one but there are quite a few differences such as the wing panel on the Mokka extending a short way up the A pillar, C pillar is larger on the MG and includes a window, bulge on the rear quarter panel extending above the rear lights on the MG. I wouldn't expect to see any of these differences if the MG was nothing more than a tarted up Mokka.