What's happening to the Lyon-Turin project?

[Sad Sprinter]

I can't quite find out when it'll fully open, but can't wait to get from London to Italy in about 8-9 hours instead of 12+ after it opens.

When it does open, could we see TGVs from Italy running to Lille Europe to provide an easy interchange for London passengers?

 

[JB_B]

Most sources say passenger services through the base tunnel will start 2033.

 

[D6130]

From what we've seen on our frequent (at least twice a year) commute on the existing route, construction seems to be proceeding apace on the French side....but very little happening on the Italian side. There is a big militant environmental protest movement on the Italian side, which regularly blocks roads and the existing railway. They are concerned not only about the noise and visual effects in the Susa valley, but also about the fact that the new tunnel will bore through asbestos seams in the Alps and possibly put fine powdered asbestos into the air....to the detriment of local peoples' health and well-being.

 

[Citybreak1]

So what’s the travel time between Paris and Italy after this opens?

 

[LLivery]

So what’s the travel time between Paris and Italy after this opens?

4hrs I believe

 

[JB_B]

From what we've seen on our frequent (at least twice a year) commute on the existing route, construction seems to be proceeding apace on the French side....but very little happening on the Italian side. There is a big militant environmental protest movement on the Italian side, which regularly blocks roads and the existing railway. They are concerned not only about the noise and visual effects in the Susa valley, but also about the fact that the new tunnel will bore through asbestos seams in the Alps and possibly put fine powdered asbestos into the air....to the detriment of local peoples' health and well-being.

Interestingly, this article ( https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/tav-che-punto-sono-lavori-e-quando-dovrebbero-terminare-AEQYJhSD ) suggests there were Italian concerns about delays on the French side "Allarme per ritardi francese ma Parigi rassicura"

 

[D6130]

Interestingly, this article ( https://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/tav-che-punto-sono-lavori-e-quando-dovrebbero-terminare-AEQYJhSD ) suggests there were Italian concerns about delays on the French side "Allarme per ritardi francese ma Parigi rassicura"

That article states that the worksites on the Italian side should commence work in 2025 and be finished in 2033. We have seen evidence of physical works already in progress on the French side near Saint Jean de Maurienne.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Planned works on the French side include new construction east of Lyon to replace the current slow sections of classic line, in addition to the new tunnel.
At Susa in Piedmont is a giant "NO TAV" sign above the town on the hillside - an indication of the local opposition.

Mont d'Ambin Base Tunnel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turin–Lyon high-speed railway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[stuu]

Only the base tunnel itself is under construction, the other works either side are not going to happen for a long time, so the journey time cuts won't be as much as for the whole project. It will still be significantly quicker though

 

[Bald Rick]

When it does open, could we see TGVs from Italy running to Lille Europe to provide an easy interchange for London passengers?

Very unlikely. In the same way there aren’t TGVs from Spain to Lille Europe. Or for that matter, from Lille Europe to much of France.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Planned works on the French side include new construction east of Lyon to replace the current slow sections of classic line, in addition to the new tunnel.
At Susa in Piedmont is a giant "NO TAV" sign above the town on the hillside - an indication of the local opposition.

Mont d'Ambin Base Tunnel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turin–Lyon high-speed railway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The No TAV movement is well supported (I bumped into some of them when in Turin - they have/had a presence in the same building as an organisation I have links with). I assume the base tunnel will happen, which isn't just faster than the existing Frejus tunnel, but bypasses the first towns on each side of the Frejus route, so that'll speed things up a bit anyway (not that it's "High Speed" in the way that some new-build projects are promoted - just 140mph I believe - but it's massively straighter of course!). And I gather there's serious work on the French side. But I wouldn't bet on the tunnels on the Italian side from the base tunnel mouth onwards towards Turin happening any time soon. The local opposition, supported by national organisations, seems unlike the responses to other higher-speed rail enhancements in Italy; I presume the rest of the project would still happen, and be seen as worth doing, without the work on the Italian side. And my money's on that outcome for the foreseeable future.

In any case, even with the existing route, I've found London-Turin (and vice versa) within a day is perfectly doable, and I'm often happy to sacrifice journey speed for a pleasanter view!

Also, I suspect a major argument for the works is improved capacity on the route, as much as for decreased journey times, so the new base tunnel will help with that anyway given the restrictions using the old Frejus tunnel.

 

[nwales58]

Remember long distance/high speed comes in a minimum dollop of 350 (pricey) seats, 500 or double that better for prices people will pay. That's what rail is good at.

However Lille-France *coverage* is not bad, Nantes, Bordeaux, Montpellier, Marseille, Strasbourg 1-2 times a day, Lyon more often.
It's low frequencies and therefore lack of rapid connections to/from Eurostar that are the problem for UK dwellers. Which comes back to efficient train size. Made worse in France by relatively high LGV track access charges and poor (by our standards) set utilisation.

The new base tunnel will shorten journey time and increases paths but expect 400m trains before higher frequencies. The greatest potential traffic growth is probably Lyon-Torino/Milano followed by longer distances Paris-N Italy or Lyon area-Rome. But until we know infrastructure charges this could be as disappointing as the Perthus for passenger services.