Glasgow Subway new stock

[Blindtraveler]

As the title says really, just wondered if there was any updates as it seems like years since they were ordered and whilst we've had a pandemic and a global economic grumble I'm sure that I'm not the only one keen to see these in traffic

 

[Russel]

I posted about this at the start of the year and it was suggested that they should enter service from the summer if I remember correctly.

Interesting to see there is still no sign of them.

 

[Snow1964]

The RVAR rail vehicle accessibility regulations exception for them was granted 14th July which was presumably blocking their introduction.

Due to limited size of tunnels, they do not provide sufficient headroom for full width above the priority seats, as trains curve in a bit at the regulation height above the floor.

RVAR exemption: Glasgow Subway Stadler electric multiple units

Public consultation for exemption request in respect of Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations (RVAR)

www.gov.uk

Following taken from exception consultation

On completion of the full modernisation programme, the system will migrate to Unattended Train Operation (UTO), with all trains controlled and monitored from a new Operational Control Centre (OCC) to be built at SPT’s existing Broomloan depot.

The first new trains are scheduled to enter passenger service January 2023 to March 2023 when there will be a period of mixed fleet operation, with the new trains running in service with our legacy fleet. As each new train enters service, it will replace one of the legacy fleet which will then be withdrawn.

Since the body-side doors are in different positions on the existing and new units, the platform screen door installation programme cannot start until all existing units have been withdrawn from service. Platform Screen Door (PSD) installation will commence immediately afterwards and the programme is scheduled for completion in 2025. The new train fleet will then be converted to operate in UTO Mode (which will involve conversion of the temporary driver’s cab to a passenger saloon).

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks for this. Really can't wait to have a go on one of these

 

[EMU303]

SPT announces Subway to close on Sundays for train safety checks

The Subway will be closed on two Sundays in July and August SPT has said.

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk

To allow testing of new trains

 

[Russel]

I'll be in Glasgow Wednesday 30th August and I'd like one last ride on the old stock, are they still in use or have the new trains taken over now?

 

[hexagon789]

I'll be in Glasgow Wednesday 30th August and I'd like one last ride on the old stock, are they still in use or have the new trains taken over now?

The old trains are still entirely providing the service. The new trains haven't entered passenger service yet, indeed I don't think they've even tested them on the Subway itself yet, just the test track.

 

[Buzby]

The old trains are still entirely providing the service. The new trains haven't entered passenger service yet, indeed I don't think they've even tested them on the Subway itself yet, just the test track.

I can vouch for this about the old train sets - my Apple Watch keeps giving me warnings about excessive ambient noise on journeys between Buchanan Street and Govan. However, according to a staff member a single test train has been testing on sections of it (the “Sunday Closures’) since July. I do recall when the original Gen 1 trains were running and the tracks were realigned for G2, the G1’s could never be used again. I’ve never heard anything about this being a potential issue with the G3 sets. I’m sure there’ll be a press release when a date is set. It’s closed all day today for the last trial.

A spokesman is quoted: “Fault-free run testing is standard practice for the introduction of any new trains. If for any reason a train does develop a fault during the fault-free running, it is removed from the system while the fault is fixed and the clock resets on the 2000 miles so the process does take some time.

While these planned Sunday closures in July and August are to facilitate the fault-free run testing of the new trains, it is expected further Sunday closures will be necessary to continue the install of new communications and signalling for the new trains. These dates will be scheduled later in the year.

Passengers will be kept updated nearer the time via all our usual channels. Please follow @GlaSubwayTravel on twitter for the most up to date travel information.”

 

[EMU303]

No Sunday Subway services as system to close for testing of new trains

The trains will be brought into service this year as part of a £288m modernisation programme.

news.stv.tv

 

[hexagon789]

I can vouch for this about the old train sets - my Apple Watch keeps giving me warnings about excessive ambient noise on journeys between Buchanan Street and Govan.

The noise was about usual, but I've noticed the track seems rougher. Twice on a recent trip we braked suddenly to a low speed (presumably 18km/h), then after a short pause accelerated back to governed maximum.


(Before anyone suggests section 'signals' I believe each station to the next is effectively a signal section, with only the two sections under the river having intermediate sections.

 

[Buzby]

Sorry to resurrect this - but I’d suggest the bulk of ‘the people of Glasgow’ really have no use for the underground/ Subway due to the very limited area it covers. The bulk of my journeys don’t go anywhere near the closed loop of 15 stations - certainly the relocated Merkland Street created a new Partick station (which in itself was originally Partickhill before moving) provided a useful interchange with ScotRail, but there’s no through ticketing so you pay over the odds. Years of speculation that a second loop could be considered creating a figure-of-eight and embracing the east end of Glasgow found minimal support and was swept under the carpet.

The new rolling stock will be nice but nothing else changes as many stations are in the ‘wrong’ place - St George’s, West Street and even Shields Road have minimal traffic and much of the heavy industry nearby closed. Waiting for new replacement housing stock to take the strain will be futile - the people of Glasgow just use alternatives that suit them better!

 

[Avenger20]

Sorry to resurrect this - but I’d suggest the bulk of ‘the people of Glasgow’ really have no use for the underground/ Subway due to the very limited area it covers. The bulk of my journeys don’t go anywhere near the closed loop of 15 stations - certainly the relocated Merkland Street created a new Partick station (which in itself was originally Partickhill before moving) provided a useful interchange with ScotRail, but there’s no through ticketing so you pay over the odds. Years of speculation that a second loop could be considered creating a figure-of-eight and embracing the east end of Glasgow found minimal support and was swept under the carpet.

The new rolling stock will be nice but nothing else changes as many stations are in the ‘wrong’ place - St George’s, West Street and even Shields Road have minimal traffic and much of the heavy industry nearby closed. Waiting for new replacement housing stock to take the strain will be futile - the people of Glasgow just use alternatives that suit them better!

I suppose the trains run empty at peak times then?

Spoiler - they don't.

 

[hexagon789]

I suppose the trains run empty at peak times then?

Spoiler - they don't.

Iirc the Subway manages about 2/3rds the passenger figures of ScotRail. So about 9m vs 14m.

 

[trei2k]

@Buzby Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean it doesn't suit everyone else.

For the 2022/23 period, the total number of gate entries was 11.9 million.



We all know the thing is run on a shoestring and it doesn't help that SPT are the decision makers (and to put it politely they are not very good at anything).

I still maintain that a significant shakeup of the ZoneCard system to encourage multimodal travel for a day (or any other flexible period for that matter) would help encourage public transport use across the city. Unfortunately, we won't even get an update on the 'upgrade' to the ZoneCard system until Nov 2023 committee meeting, this is according to a freedom of information request that I submitted recently.

 

[hexagon789]

For the 2022/23 period, the total number of gate entries was 11.9 million.

Admittedly I was using the previous year, as I couldn't find current figures. Almost 12 million is not bad going.

 

[trei2k]

Admittedly I was using the previous year, as I couldn't find current figures. Almost 12 million is not bad going.

11,905,246 entries to be exact.

Unfortunately, their recent update only provided a graphical representation of the figures and discussed percentage change. So I did a freedom of information request to get the data (which should have been in the original minutes from the meeting or published somewhere!)

 

[hexagon789]

11,905,246 entries to be exact.

Unfortunately, their recent update only provided a graphical representation of the figures and discussed percentage change. So I did a freedom of information request to get the data (which should have been in the original minutes from the meeting or published somewhere!)

That explains why I couldn't find it!

 

[Cloud Strife]

Sorry to resurrect this - but I’d suggest the bulk of ‘the people of Glasgow’ really have no use for the underground/ Subway due to the very limited area it covers. The bulk of my journeys don’t go anywhere near the closed loop of 15 stations - certainly the relocated Merkland Street created a new Partick station (which in itself was originally Partickhill before moving) provided a useful interchange with ScotRail, but there’s no through ticketing so you pay over the odds. Years of speculation that a second loop could be considered creating a figure-of-eight and embracing the east end of Glasgow found minimal support and was swept under the carpet.

The new rolling stock will be nice but nothing else changes as many stations are in the ‘wrong’ place - St George’s, West Street and even Shields Road have minimal traffic and much of the heavy industry nearby closed. Waiting for new replacement housing stock to take the strain will be futile - the people of Glasgow just use alternatives that suit them better!

Isn't part of the problem in Glasgow is that there's not actually that much mobility from one side of the city to the other? I have friends living near Partick station, and they almost never venture towards Celtic Park and that part of Glasgow.

 

[D6130]

I have friends living near Partick station, and they almost never venture towards Celtic Park and that part of Glasgow.

There are - unfortunately - long-standing politico-religious reasons for that sort of attitude prevailing....although the 'gentrification' of areas such as Dennistoun are slowly eroding such ideas.

 

[EMU303]

https://www.spt.co.uk/about-us/news/subway-reports-record-numbers/

 

[EMU303]

https://www.spt.co.uk/about-us/news/subway-reports-record-numbers/

 

[InOban]

I can vouch for this about the old train sets - my Apple Watch keeps giving me warnings about excessive ambient noise on journeys between Buchanan Street and Govan. However, according to a staff member a single test train has been testing on sections of it (the “Sunday Closures’) since July. I do recall when the original Gen 1 trains were running and the tracks were realigned for G2, the G1’s could never be used again. I’ve never heard anything about this being a potential issue with the G3 sets. I’m sure there’ll be a press release when a date is set. It’s closed all day today for the last trial.

A spokesman is quoted: “Fault-free run testing is standard practice for the introduction of any new trains. If for any reason a train does develop a fault during the fault-free running, it is removed from the system while the fault is fixed and the clock resets on the 2000 miles so the process does take some time.

While these planned Sunday closures in July and August are to facilitate the fault-free run testing of the new trains, it is expected further Sunday closures will be necessary to continue the install of new communications and signalling for the new trains. These dates will be scheduled later in the year.

Passengers will be kept updated nearer the time via all our usual channels. Please follow @GlaSubwayTravel on twitter for the most up to date travel information.”

A bit OT, but the Gen1 and Gen2 stock was incompatible because Gen1 picked up the leccy from the side of the tunnel while Gen2 used the normal 3rd rail between the rails AIR?

 

[hexagon789]

A bit OT, but the Gen1 and Gen2 stock was incompatible because Gen1 picked up the leccy from the side of the tunnel while Gen2 used the normal 3rd rail between the rails AIR?

Gen1 picked up traction current from a conventional third rail.

Side mounted skids at the rear of each car collected current from a wall mounted twin rail of sorts, for the train lighting. This also provided a means of train detection for the signalling system.

This method of seperate current collection for the lighting dated back to the original cable hauled days and was not altered during electrification.

I suspect the true reason is clearance. The older stock likely had a different kinematic envelope.

 

[Buzby]

Ah - not interested in a flame war, but a comment that alludes to ‘the people of Glasgow’ being dissatisfied is a long shot. I would use it if it fitted in with my needs, but after 50-odd years it still hasn’t but I embrace and support its curiosity value. If you live next to the route then great go for it, but logic dictates there are more and larger areas that can’t get the benefit. Sure the university traffic helps but the unreliabilly and ‘never on a Sunday evening’ stop folk taking it seriously. SPT notwithstanding, at least new trains are (almost) here so at least they’re doing something. If they get their remote running (driverless) sets, that was probably the reason it was approved.

 

[Buzby]

A bit OT, but the Gen1 and Gen2 stock was incompatible because Gen1 picked up the leccy from the side of the tunnel while Gen2 used the normal 3rd rail between the rails AIR?

Do you mean Glasgow? Gen 1 used T-irons half way up the far wall. This provided electricity for carriage lighting only. If traction power was lost, the carriages remained lit. There was nothing ‘between the rails’ traction power was provided by a third rail (outside of the running rails) and elevated by a foot or so, located underneath the lighting supply on the far wall. The only thing on the opposite tunnel wall were two wires to clip the field handset to speak to the next station.

The only signalling infrastructure in the tunnel was rotating trip that was raised when the signal was at red, if it was passed the brakes were automatically applied. To get moving again, the motorman had to exit the front door, drop to track level and manually reset the brake trip. There was no requirement for other detection as far as I’m aware, apart from when a train left the previous station, it lit an orange beacon on the next. The lighting irons did nothing else than light!

 

[Vespa]

I have ridden on the Glasgow subway my observations is that it is limited to the area it serves and noticeably the character of area have changed since thr line was built it has never expanded since it was constructed and it's unusual 4ft gauge.

The new trains is nice looking and has potential if the system can be expanded, the only way for it to be expanded if funding is limited is above ground on reserved tracks as digging is very expensive.

 

[ld0595]

Has there been any indication of when the new stock will be in service? I note that it was closed again yesterday for further mileage runs but all articles I've seen suggests it's just later this year.

Will the old/new stock run together for a while or should is it planned to remove all the old stock all from day 1?

 

[hexagon789]

Has there been any indication of when the new stock will be in service? I note that it was closed again yesterday for further mileage runs but all articles I've seen suggests it's just later this year.

Will the old/new stock run together for a while or should is it planned to remove all the old stock all from day 1?

While originally I believe they were to run together, I understand they subsequently decided not to fit the new trains to run on the existing ATO system (it is basically 1960s technology, very similar in nature to that used on the Victoria Line originally - there must be a fair amount of obsolescence in it by now), so presumably there will be a period of total closure at some point when the old stock is completely withdrawn and the new stock introduced to revenue service.

 

[nlogax]

Very much looking forward to trying the new trains when they eventually go into service. Although I shall miss what has always felt like a two-thirds scale model of LU 72 or 73 stock.

 

[Buzby]

Very much looking forward to trying the new trains when they eventually go into service. Although I shall miss what has always felt like a two-thirds scale model of LU 72 or 73 stock.

Why would you miss it? The new trains have to fit in the same size tunnels - I tried the mock-up and it’s still very limited headroom!