Oyster Card Newbie - Question

[ConfusedByOste]

So I'm starting a new job and I've puchased an Oyster Card for the first time ever.

I'm going to be travelling from Ewell West to Crystal Palace each day.

I've used the TFL's fare finder (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/farefinder/current/default.aspx)
...and it shows the price as £3.40 each way. Much cheaper than a travelcard.

As I've never used Oyster before I don't understand at which stations I need to touch in and out. I presume it is just at the start (Ewell West) and the end (Crystal Palace).
But what about my change at Clapham Junction? Do I need to tap it there too? By my logic that would charge me for two journeys (Ewell West-> C.J. & C.J. -> Crystal Palace). Then I would be paying £10.60 every day instead of £6.80.

Could someone clear this up for me?

Sorry for such a boring question.

 

[W-on-Sea]

You'll be fine just touching in and out at Ewell West and Crystal Palace.

If you click on the "alternative fares" button on the Tfl Fare Finder link you supplied, you'll see there are other, more expensive, alternative fares for this journey, via Zone 1. But the default fare is the cheaper, £3.40 one. So unless you touch in/out in Zone (e.g. at Victoria) 1 the system will presume that you have not entered Zone 1, and will charge you £3.40 accordingly.

 

[Via Bank]

If you change trains en-route, it's only considered one journey. Providing you change at Clapham Junction, the system will work out the route and charge you the cheapest fare for the journey you've made.

There isn't one at Clapham Junction at present, but for future reference, if you see a pink Oyster reader on the platform at any station, you need to touch your Oyster against that if you are changing trains there. This tells the system which route you have taken (for example, if you are avoiding Zone 1.) You don't need to touch in, out or against a pink reader at all at Clapham Junction, though, so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[ConfusedByOste]

Thanks very much for all the help. I'll feel more confident using it now.

 

[Greenback]

Is there still a season ticket for this journey? It may be cheaper than using PAYG.

 

[ConfusedByOste]

Is there still a season ticket for this journey? It may be cheaper than using PAYG.

How would I find that out?

 

[Greenback]

National Rail Enquiries website used to have a season ticket calculator.

I'm sorry, I;m not sure about London area stations, but if they are both National Rail stations, which I think they are, then there might be 7 day, monthly or longer seasons that will save money and hassle on buying (or swiping) every day.

There are far better people than me on here when it comes to Oyster, but I believe you can have a season in paper form or put on to the Oyster card itself.

There is a season ticket calculator at

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/en/s/seasonticket/calculator

A weekly season is shown as £29.30 or a monthly is £112.60. You can also get any period from one month to a year. An annual does provide some good benefits if you can afford the money to pay in advance! Or you could ask your employer if they provide season ticket loans, some do. I had one, and my advance was deducted from my pay at 0% nterest.

 

[asylumxl]

7 day season is £29.30 routed "NOT LONDON", according to Avantix, so significantly cheaper than Pay as you go.

 

[ConfusedByOste]

7 day season is £29.30 routed "NOT LONDON", according to Avantix, so significantly cheaper than Pay as you go.

Yeh. I just found that too, but what does it mean by "not London"? All the stations I'm going through are London aren't they?
The next one is £34.40, and working it out I would be paying £34.00 (5 x (£3.40 x 2)) per week.

 

[Greenback]

Clapham Junction is defined as 'Not London' for railway routeing purposes!

This is just one of the things that seems strange about our railway ticketing system!

 

[island]

"Not London" means "You may not pass through or change at a London terminal station". Put "London station group" into Wikipedia for a list of London terminal stations.

 

[asylumxl]

It should really read "Not London Terminals" in my opinion.

 

[tony_mac]

What about a season from Epsom to Crystal Palace? That seems to be significantly cheaper.
(You can travel between any two points on the route of a season ticket, you don't have to go just from one station to the other).

 

[bnm]

If you can travel from Ewell East instead you can get a 7 day National Rail season for £15.70. Monthly for £60.30. Annual for £628.00. Annual entitles you to various Gold Card benefits.

Change trains at West Croydon (or Norwood Junction or Balham on some journeys) for Crystal Palace. Generally shorter journey time from Ewell East also.

 

[island]

It should really read "Not London Terminals" in my opinion.

That would be too long

 

[ConfusedByOste]

I'll stick to my single fares for the first month. I'll see how it goes. Some journeys I'll be going off peak I think, so it'll be cheaper I reckon.

 

[Greenback]

What about a season from Epsom to Crystal Palace? That seems to be significantly cheaper.
(You can travel between any two points on the route of a season ticket, you don't have to go just from one station to the other).

If you can travel from Ewell East instead you can get a 7 day National Rail season for £15.70. Monthly for £60.30. Annual for £628.00. Annual entitles you to various Gold Card benefits.

Change trains at West Croydon (or Norwood Junction or Balham on some journeys) for Crystal Palace. Generally shorter journey time from Ewell East also.

Now that's why I defer to others on london area travel - my knowledge of the local geopraphy is woeful!

I'll stick to my single fares for the first month. I'll see how it goes. Some journeys I'll be going off peak I think, so it'll be cheaper I reckon.

Good luck with your commuting, whatever you decide. May your journeys be swift and uneventful!

 

[ConfusedByOste]

If you can travel from Ewell East instead you can get a 7 day National Rail season for £15.70. Monthly for £60.30. Annual for £628.00. Annual entitles you to various Gold Card benefits.

Change trains at West Croydon (or Norwood Junction or Balham on some journeys) for Crystal Palace. Generally shorter journey time from Ewell East also.

Just seen this. It looks like I would change at Sutton in the mornings. A much longer walk, but a quicker train journey, and it would be half the price!

 

[bnm]

Now that's why I defer to others on london area travel - my knowledge of the local geopraphy is woeful!

Mine's not much better, particularly south of the river. I have to thank my Rail Atlas for letting me know there was a Ewell East!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just seen this. It looks like I would change at Sutton in the mornings. A much longer walk, but a quicker train journey, and it would be half the price!

Oh yeah, Sutton is also one of the options to change at. I guess once you are in a regular pattern you'll get your timings (incl walks to stations) down pat and that will inform you of the best trains to catch. Actually quite good to have various options from Ewell East - gives flexibility when things go wrong on the network!

The single fare with Oyster PAYG, Ewell East <-> Crystal Palace (Peak - before 0930 and between 1600-1900) is £2.30. Off Peak is £1.70

Good luck with the commute.

 

[RJ]

It should really read "Not London Terminals" in my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong - "London" in this context includes some stations which are not actually terminals .

 

[asylumxl]

Your opinion is wrong - "London" in this context includes some stations which are not actually terminals .

Am I? I was referring to the station grouping. I am well aware of what
stations are and aren't in it .

I'm not aware of any tickets that would not mean these stations when tickets are routed "Not London".

 

[island]

Your opinion is wrong - "London" in this context includes some stations which are not actually terminals .

May I ask which ones they are?

 

[LexyBoy]

May I ask which ones they are?

St Pancras, City Thameslink, London Bridge, Blackfriars, Waterloo East and Vauxhall I would think (edit: also Old Street)

I think RJ is referring to the fact that "London Terminals" in the sense of London Group stations, are not all terminals. Thus using "Not London Terminals" on a ticket would be just as confusing as "Not London" (e.g. thinking it's OK to go via LBG since it's not a terminus).

 

[asylumxl]

But if a list was given at stations or with the ticket, as some kind of advice slip, it would be far more simple for your average traveler in my opinion.

 

[island]

St Pancras, City Thameslink, London Bridge, Blackfriars, Waterloo East and Vauxhall I would think (edit: also Old Street)

All of those are "London Terminals" as in "members of the station group that is currently printed on tickets as 'London Terminals', having in the past been printed as 'London', 'London BR', 'London Stations', and 'London Britrail'", although I grant they are not termini, as in stations where all trains must either commence or terminate because they can't go through.

I think RJ is referring to the fact that "London Terminals" in the sense of London Group stations, are not all terminals. Thus using "Not London Terminals" on a ticket would be just as confusing as "Not London" (e.g. thinking it's OK to go via LBG since it's not a terminus).

I would like a clarification on this from RJ; so far it's somewhere between funny, pedantic, and confusing, and I'm not sure where

 

[OwlMan]

London Routeing Group is different from London Terminals

London Routeing Group consists of

April 2011 Edition of Routeing Guide
KINGS CROSS THAMESLINK
BETHNAL GREEN
CITY THAMESLINK
BLACKFRIARS
LONDON BRIDGE
CANNON STREET
CHARING CROSS
EUSTON
FENCHURCH STREET
KINGS CROSS
LIVERPOOL STREET
MARYLEBONE
PADDINGTON
ST PANCRAS
VICTORIA
WATERLOO
WATERLOO EAST
MOORGATE UNDERGROUND
OLD STREET UNDERGROUND

Although I can not see why Kings Cross Thameslink is still in the list.

London Terminals consists of

The Manual
City Thameslink
London Liverpool Street
London Blackfriars
London Paddington
London Bridge
London St Pancras International
London Cannon Street
London Victoria
London Charing Cross
London Waterloo
London Euston
London Waterloo East
London Fenchurch Street
Moorgate Underground
London Kings Cross
Old Street Underground
London Marylebone
Vauxhall

Vauxhall being in London Terminals but not a member of the Routeing Group
and Bethnal Green being in the Routeing Group but not a London Terminal.

Peter

 

[RJ]

London Routeing Group is different from London Terminals

London Routeing Group consists of

Agreed - Bethnal Green falls under the London Routeing point, but not London Terminals and vice versa for Vauxhall - so the London routing point and London Terminals are not the same thing.

I think RJ is referring to the fact that "London Terminals" in the sense of London Group stations, are not all terminals. Thus using "Not London Terminals" on a ticket would be just as confusing as "Not London" (e.g. thinking it's OK to go via LBG since it's not a terminus).

That wasn't the point I was making - the point was that route "London" and London Terminals each have different definitions.

I would like a clarification on this from RJ; so far it's somewhere between funny, pedantic, and confusing, and I'm not sure where

It's not really a case of being pedantic. The appropriate context of "London" is the routeing point, which is defined in the Routeing Guide. Pointing out the fact that the London routeing point and London Terminals are not the same thing, as covered in the post above, should hopefully clarify the misimpression that they are one and the same.

"Not London Terminals" and "Not London" therefore would not mean the same thing - so any opinion that they would is incorrect.

 

[talltim]

So basically 'Not London' and 'Not London Terminals' are both confusing and not what they would appear to say.

 

[RJ]

It's not the most straightforward thing to find out the definitions of each one, but they are in the public domain. London Terminals is defined on the National Rail website and the Routeing Guide is accessible if one needs a definitive understanding of stations included in a routeing point.

London Terminals and route London is like Birmingham Stns and route Birmingham - similar, but not identical stations.

One should ask a member of staff if they're confused - I'm certainly happy to field such queries for those who approach me -anything I'm less than 100% on I will consult the book and provide a printout if there's any potential for conflict with other staff.

 

[asylumxl]

It's not the most straightforward thing to find out the definitions of each one, but they are in the public domain. London Terminals is defined on the National Rail website and the Routeing Guide is accessible if one needs a definitive understanding of stations included in a routeing point.

London Terminals and route London is like Birmingham Stns and route Birmingham - similar, but not identical stations.

One should ask a member of staff if they're confused - I'm certainly happy to field such queries for those who approach me -anything I'm less than 100% on I will consult the book and provide a printout if there's any potential for conflict with other staff.

Thank you for the clarification. From the list though, only two seem to be different in the grouping.