Controversial railway opinions (without a firm foundation in logic..)

[Trainguy34]

Networkers are the best trains on the rail network simply because they're the best sounding stock, almost every other EMU produces boring/bland sounds.

For me that's not controversial although I like how the 395s sound aswell.

 

[eldomtom2]

If British railways viewed the law as a baseline rather than a target to aspire to there would hardly be any prosecutions for breaking health and safety law.

Some companies have been prosecuted multiple times.l

Again, I'm not saying safety violations don't happen. I'm saying their scale and nature is less severe than that of other countries.

 

[Silenos]

Implement Serpell B, so we can find out once and for all whether the railways really do bring social and environmental benefits.

 

[RT4038]

My controversial opinion is that there are lots of internet edgelords posting on this forum.

Meanwhile in the real world, great swathes of the population don't use a train from one year to the next, and the public perceives rail travel to be slow, unreliable and horribly expensive.

I think 'inconvenient or impractical for the journey being undertaken' must surely rank quite high too?

 

[Sonic1234]

I think 'inconvenient or impractical for the journey being undertaken' must surely rank quite high too?

And inconvenient to access - lots of people, even in urban areas, do not live near a station.

 

[Bald Rick]

1) The British railway is actually good in comparison with other European railways on almost any metric

2) Many roles on the railway are paid very, very well in comparison to similar roles with similar levels of training and responsibility (and their peers elsewhere)

3) the railway needs to close some stations.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Advance tickets (other than on sleeper trains) should give no more than a 10% discount on the turn-up-and-go fare for that service.

 

[eldomtom2]

My controversial opinion is that the railway in UK is actually quite good and reasonably priced. Take the intercity express services in Japan (Shinkansen) and the NE corridor in the USA (Acela) as examples. They are not cheap at all, despite enjoying a much denser population that theoretically should push the price further down. And basically you can turn up and go here (most of the times) without planning your trip weeks in advance is also making railway travel much more convenient.

I think pricing comparisons depends on that on what routes you're comparing and how early in advance you're buying tickets. Remember there is no demand-based pricing in Japan.

 

[james_the_xv]

Would they even get a fast? The fasts take the other side of the loop because it's shorter.

Capacity, only so many trains you can run via Weedon.

Trains are open for all manner of travel and sometimes people have large luggage - family holidays or to-and-from airports for example are and should be encouraged. Provide sensible and usable space for luggage or expect it to be blocking seats and aisles.

I agree but, I'm talking more about the people who think it's acceptable to put handbags/backpacks, or cabin bags that can go in overhead racks or on the floor when the train is full and standing (no issue when it's less busy).

 

[Kite159]

Advance tickets (other than on sleeper trains) should give no more than a 10% discount on the turn-up-and-go fare for that service.

Good way to push passengers back to using cars, coaches or even planes on long distance services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good way to push passengers back to using cars, coaches or even planes on long distance services.

I'd go the other way. For any sort of restricted ticket to exist, it must be at least 10% CHEAPER (or £5 cheaper, whichever is a greater discount) than the flexible one. Shallow discount tickets add complexity and confusion for little benefit.

 

[Bantamzen]

Honestly if people want railways to contribute in a modal shift to help reduce impact on the environment, then further subsidies are the only way this will happen effectively. The cost of travel, especially walk-up is often stupidly expensive especially when its so unreliable. How the additional money to support this would be the government's problem, but without this then the situation is going to stagnate. Additionally there needs to be way more control and scrutiny on running / infrastructure costs. I've long suspected that there's a lot of sucking air through teeth and "its gonna cost you gov" stuff going on that inflates costs. I've seen it elsewhere in public finances, its amazing just how easily prices inflate when government cash is being thrown around. Too many snouts in the trough methinks.

And if all of this were ever to happen, in return for further public finance support the railway industry will need to adapt to modern day reality. That is to say finding a way to ensure trains run 7 days a week, from at least early morning to late night, and I do mean run. No more "its to difficult", "we don't have the staff / units", or emergency timetables every time the skies cloud over. And of course ticket prices must be made cheaper so as to actually attract new punters, not just recycling existing ones.

Oh and I want my own personal train, available on demand complete with all sports channels, a sauna and a bar.....

 

[nw1]

I wish I'd managed to get over to the West a bit more in slam door days.

Same with me and the East, which I didn't visit until 1986 and had only one proper rail enthusiast-oriented visit to, in 1987. I did however manage to visit the Central Division regularly from 1985 to 1988, though would have liked to get over there in the "Rapid City Link" days too.

 

[hux385]

How about all intercity trains should have doors at thirds rather than end doors? It would make dwell times so much quicker!

 

[nw1]

The HAP's were quite rare in deepest Kent in my day, but would have liked them to have appeared more !

Indeed, I only ever saw HAPs on the South Western, where they remained until summer 1991 - one of the remaining workings that summer being a "HAP sandwich" on the 1758 Waterloo-Southampton in which the HAP was unusually placed between two VEPs.

I did however see CAPs at Havant in summer 1983, when they worked a good few of the '60' (Coastway West semi-fast) and '62' (stopper) services.

It appears that the 1981 timetable was a veritable HAPfest on the Chatham lines, in particular, but that was a good five years before I ever visited them.

 

[LYuen]

I'd go the other way. For any sort of restricted ticket to exist, it must be at least 10% CHEAPER (or £5 cheaper, whichever is a greater discount) than the flexible one. Shallow discount tickets add complexity and confusion for little benefit.

My thinking is a flexible off peak single fare should not be 10% (or up to 20%) more expensive than a on the day advance off peak fare.
Realistically just the half price of a return, maybe dropping some benefits e.g. break of journey only allowed for a return but not a off-peak single.

 

[nw1]

I agree.

Note also the transport enthusiasts constantly lobbying for bus stations to be located next to bus stations even where 90% plus of bus passengers want to get to town centres rather than the railway station.

Maybe but I think integrated ticketing is the most desirable ask (for myself at least). Or routing the majority of bus services close to the rail station, even if they don't terminate there.

 

[WelshBluebird]

However, what single piece of knowledge can a person have which the computer could not be given.

It isn't that knowledge can't be programmed, more that knock on consequences can get complicated fast and the more complex your logic becomes, the more difficult it is to change.

Take your example about a certain unit not being able to be booked for a particular route. What if that is the only unit available and not using it would result in the service being cancelled? Maybe that is fine considering the delays using that unit would cause more widely. But then what if that service was the last one of the day, or provided connections to last services on other branches? The decision is less black and white. Sure you can code all of that but it would end up very very complex and be pretty inflexible to change!

 

[nw1]

Ooooh, I'll go for a few...

1. Nationalisation wouldn't work nearly as well as many think it would. TOCs would still be run as largely separate entities, bidding for paths and liable to the same performance metrics.

I guess nationalisation wouldn't have to be done that way.

To be honest the thing that annoys me most about the British rail system is not whether it's nationalised or privatised, but its lack of integration. "Bidding for paths" is an utter nonsense to me (another controversial point) - "the railway", public or private, should be trying to plan the system as a whole and using the paths in a manner which delivers the system which is best for the majority of passengers.

A further controversial one:: the government should only interfere with the railways to improve services or reduce fares. They should not be allowed to tell the TOC(s) to reduce services to cut costs.

 

[LYuen]

I think pricing comparisons depends on that on what routes you're comparing and how early in advance you're buying tickets. Remember there is no demand-based pricing in Japan.

Yea, comparing the advanced fare in the UK to the fixed fare in Japan isn't fare - if you buy a London - Scotland ticket on the day or just a night in advance, the cost is off the roof.

Plus, Japan does offer a 15%-20% advance discount if people book a specific service, 3 days to 1 month in advance on the Tokyo - Kyushu route

 

[fwsmVor]

The battery technology to electrify OHLE-less branch lines with chargers at each end already exists: electric-steam locomotives. The only reason nobody's investigated them is institutional inertia, and the UK would be well served by being the first to introduce them with its outsized steam traction industry.

 

[Silenos]

U

Honestly if people want railways to contribute in a modal shift to help reduce impact on the environment

That’s a very big ‘if’. Most of the talk about this is no more than polite lip service.

Oh and I want my own personal train, available on demand complete with all sports channels, a sauna and a bar.....

a whole train seems a big ask, maybe just personalised carriages?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How about all intercity trains should have doors at thirds rather than end doors? It would make dwell times so much quicker!

I do agree with this. Doors at quarters as per the 380 or most vehicles in the 444 work much better than at the ends. Easier boarding and three more private, quieter compartments, and still have an intercity feel.

The 170 is an excellent train, the only issue with it is that the luggage rack is too small and too few were built.

 

[renegademaster]

Any talk of "Net Zero" or any environmental stuff bar very low hanging fruit for public transport should banned for the next 10 years. As long as they remain a junior partner to cars , any expense spent cleaning up the railway is just pushing people back to cars and undoing any gains.

Busses even more so, if you can buy a diesel for half the price of electric and double the amount of busses, or raise driver salaries with the saved money , do it, with mabye some exceptions to inner London where buses do actually make substantive contribution to air quality.

This isn't to say electric trains and busses don't have a role, but the business case questions should be "will this save money" , "will this allow more capacity" or "will this improve reliability " not " will this reduce the carbon output of the public transport sector?" Which itself is a pretty small proportion of British carbon output

 

[TheSmiths82]

My controversial opinion:
Seat reservations should be abolished, or charged at a level that discourages people from booking them speculatively or for short hops (e.g. £5-£10 a leg) and limited to maybe 1/4 of the train's seating capacity.

They seem to cause increased dwell times, arguments between passengers and conflicts in passenger flow as those walking down a platform/carriage to find their booked carriage/seats have to try and pass others coming the other way!

Boarding would be so much smoother if passengers knew they could just jump onto any coach and into the first free seats they see, clearing the aisle.

My local station is served by XC (lots of reservations) and Chiltern (no reservations) and even allowing for the differing door positions of a Voyager vs 168, the Chiltern trains are much quicker and easier for everyone to get boarded and sat down!

Because reservations are free, even for the shortest journeys, people also often book reservations they don't need. This leads to people being unsure if they can grab a seat that looks like a 'no-show', plus blocks the seat from being reserved for a longer distance journey where it might be worthwhile.

The only thing I would do is allow free seat reservation for any holders of Senior/Disabled railcards, or any booking that includes both an adult and child ticket (to give families a chance of sitting together).

I agree with this for shorter journeys. I recently had to travel on the Scarborough to York TPE service, it was 50 minutes long and it had seat reservations. The previous Manchester bound train had been cancelled so this train was just chaos.

It seems to work well for Northern on the longer services with many carriages. Also I have noticed in the majority of times people don't claim their reserved seats anyway.

 

[mrcheek]

Complementry food and drink should be got rid of in 1st class to allow a reduction in 1st class fares and a return of a cafe/bistro/resturant car for all, but keep an at seat service for 1st class passengers...much like how they do it in some of mainland Europe.

I shall now log off and prepare myself for the backlash for when I next log on!

I would go in another direction.
Keep the free drinks in 1st class, but dont bother with food. Trains shouldnt bother with food, aside from crisps or biscuits

 

[yorksrob]

Rail fares need to be consistently competitive for passengers. A few cheap tickets thrown out at the train companies convenience, does not an affordable transport system make.

 

[mrcheek]

The Settle to Carlisle line is grossly over-rated.

The Welsh valley Lines are far more interesting

 

[Llandudno]

Either get rid of the ridiculous parliamentary services or run a properly hourly seven day a week service on them!

Stockport - Stalybridge
Helsby - Ellesmere Port
Brigg Line

Etc…

 

[renegademaster]

I would go in another direction.
Keep the free drinks in 1st class, but dont bother with food. Trains shouldnt bother with food, aside from crisps or biscuits

A vending machine and one of those Costa coffee machines you get in petrol stations would do really