Waterloo to Aldershot (via Ascot) services

[sp503]

I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but I am only very recently aware that the timing of the evening Waterloo to Aldershot (via Ascot) services are a bit peculiar, and wonder why it is the case:

1. The semi-fast service (from Waterloo to Ascot) departs only 7 minutes before the fast Reading service (:13 and :20 respectively), instead of the usual SWR practice of putting the fast services before a semi-fast to avoid congestion. In fact, the Reading fast would often catch up the Aldershot semi-fast around Staines, if there is only even a slight delay in the Aldershot service, and delaying the Reading one as a result. Why is it not the other way round?

2. Instead of running Waterloo to Aldershot in place of the Ascot to Aldershot shuttle, the service runs as an extra in addition to the half hourly shuttle. The Waterloo one is scheduled to depart Ascot at :09, while the normal shuttle departs at :19, usually quite empty. The shuttle service is timed to assume most patrons of the shuttle come from the Reading service, so with the direct service from Waterloo, is it still necessary to run the shuttle at all during those hours?

3. There is a particularly long dwell time at Frimley. Is it due to a bottleneck south (west) of Frimley, and if so, can it be eliminated by consolidating the Waterloo direct with the shuttle during the evening rush hours?

 

[TEW]

The Aldershot-Ascot services used to run ECS where they duplicated the London services but the timetable was recast in December 2022. They have to run anyway to form services in the opposite direction so even if they're empty they're not doing any harm. It was also part of a wider peak time recast of the timetable on the line to provide better connections at Ash Vale.

 

[JonathanH]

I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but I am only very recently aware that the timing of the evening Waterloo to Aldershot (via Ascot) services are a bit peculiar, and wonder why it is the case:

The xx13 path from Waterloo these services now use is one that was previously used for Shepperton via Richmond services that still run at 1743 and 1843. It arguably makes more sense when looking at departures from Waterloo as far as Twickenham and Staines, being on the opposite side of the quarter hour from the Windsor train than it does west of Staines where it is right ahead of the xx20 service to Reading.

Therefore, it might be thought of as being more a Putney, Richmond and Twickenham train that goes to Aldershot, than a train primarily aimed at passengers for East Berkshire.

It would appear to form a useful relief to the 1720 and 1820 Reading departures.

 

[sp503]

The xx13 path from Waterloo these services now use is one that was previously used for Shepperton via Richmond services that still run at 1743 and 1843. It arguably makes more sense when looking at departures from Waterloo as far as Twickenham and Staines, being on the opposite side of the quarter hour from the Windsor train than it does west of Staines where it is right ahead of the xx20 service to Reading.

Therefore, it might be thought of as being more a Putney, Richmond and Twickenham train that goes to Aldershot, than a train primarily aimed at passengers for East Berkshire.

It would appear to form a useful relief to the 1720 and 1820 Reading departures.

Ah that makes sense, thanks. I was also wondering why it’s a semi-fast instead of a fast as it goes nearly as far as the Reading train goes.

Speaking of which, it is a shame that the area around Frimley and Camberley does not have better services to London. The changing time at Ash Vale for the faster Alton train is 20 minutes (both ways). The other way, through Ascot, has a shorter changing time but the journey is longer. Has there been any attempts in the past to improve that?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Has there been any attempts in the past to improve that?

More times than you will ever know. Attempts have been made many times to reinvent that wheel (amongst others). Many of the planners on that patch until quite recently were ex BR planners, extremely knowledgeable and professional through decades of service, and those there today are no less so I am reliably informed. The consequence of making any one specific route timetable perfect, as in; ideal connection dwell times, no festering at this or that Junction, and through/fast services to/from London (or where ever) at certain times of the day to suit that one route (especially on a network as complex, timetable wise, as the SW) will inevitably cause more problems (elsewhere) than it solves. As a certain K. Allsop off the telly often says, it's about compromise .

 

[43096]

It would appear to form a useful relief to the 1720 and 1820 Reading departures.

It is indeed. The two Aldershot services are much quieter than the 1720 and 1820. The 1713 is also formed of superior 458 stock, with the others being 450.

 

[RailWonderer]

More times than you will ever know. Attempts have been made many times to reinvent that wheel (amongst others). Many of the planners on that patch until quite recently were ex BR planners, extremely knowledgeable and professional through decades of service, and those there today are no less so I am reliably informed. The consequence of making any one specific route timetable perfect, as in; ideal connection dwell times, no festering at this or that Junction, and through/fast services to/from London (or where ever) at certain times of the day to suit that one route (especially on a network as complex, timetable wise, as the SW) will inevitably cause more problems (elsewhere) than it solves. As a certain K. Allsop off the telly often says, it's about compromise .

I always assumed the lack of a direct service was due to lack of capacity on the double track line to Reading. Alton via Bagshot should get 1tph to London but with an almost all trains all stations calling pattern on the line to Reading, it seems nigh on impossible. And with the dense semi urban population in that part of Surrey/Berkshire they can't just remove calls on some services to allow it to happen.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It is indeed. The two Aldershot services are much quieter than the 1720 and 1820. The 1713 is also formed of superior 458 stock, with the others being 450.

Not superior to everyone, of course...
Both have pros and cons which ultimately cancel each other out really.