Edinburgh & the Lothians bus network speculations & ideas

[318266]

The only loss I can see from this is a westbound connection from Ratho - of which is probably a very low demand, however is important to note

 

[stevenedin]

The only loss I can see from this is a westbound connection from Ratho - of which is probably a very low demand, however is important to note

Maybe this will be covered by an extended route once the City of Edinburgh Council tenders come into place. Who knows.

 

[roadierway77]

It filled a whole dart last week until about Hermiston.

It did? Then I stand corrected, I've previously observed it as being very quiet, though I've not been on or near the route recently. No doubt the upcoming changes will benefit it.

Maybe this will be covered by an extended route once the City of Edinburgh Council tenders come into place. Who knows.

An extension of the 20 to Livingston would make sense geographically if the route passes to LCB, but as mentioned there is likely minimal demand for this connection.

 

[318266]

It did? Then I stand corrected, I've previously observed it as being very quiet, though I've not been on or near the route recently. No doubt the upcoming changes will benefit it.


An extension of the 20 to Livingston would make sense geographically if the route passes to LCB, but as mentioned there is likely minimal demand for this connection.

Heavily depends on when you go on it - can very from completely empty until Hermiston to being uncomfortably full from Gilmerton

 

[LothianBusesPh]

An extension of the 20 to Livingston would make sense geographically if the route passes to LCB, but as mentioned there is likely minimal demand for this connection.

It makes sense in theory, giving even more places a link to Livingston and Wester Hailes with yet another link, but it would be good for the Gyle Centre to have a direct connection with West Lothian, which it doesn't have currently. This would also reinstate the link between Ratho and Livingston, but there probably isn't much demand for it as stated. The X24 already links the Gyle Centre to Livingston (as well as the X18 linking Whitburn, and the X38 linking Linlithgow and beyond, places which would most likely go elsewhere). The Centre in Livingston would also make it less likely for someone to go to the Gyle Centre from Livingston.

An idea I would give is if they would extend the Service 20 to Livingston, it would serve Broxburn, Uphall and Pumpherston in the process. Pumpherston needs a Sunday Service and a later link from Livingston too.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I suspect the X40 and X27 will be timed operate 30mins apart, and X28 will be on 20/40 patten on the timetable, so everyone gets a better service.

How do you plan to separate an every 40 minute service from an every 60 minute one though? To have them every 30 minutes apart would be impossible.

The X40 will probably be added to run whenever it does I think, and not specifically to be balanced from the X27.

Either that or the every 30 minute service returns to the X27 and then they’re balanced that way. That’s the only way it can reasonably work.

 

[stevenedin]

It makes sense in theory, giving even more places a link to Livingston and Wester Hailes with yet another link, but it would be good for the Gyle Centre to have a direct connection with West Lothian, which it doesn't have currently. This would also reinstate the link between Ratho and Livingston, but there probably isn't much demand for it as stated. The X18, X24 and X38 already link the Gyle Centre to Livingston (as well as the X38 linking Linlithgow and beyond, places which would most likely go elsewhere). The Centre in Livingston would also make it less likely for someone to go to the Gyle Centre from Livingston.

An idea I would give is if they would extend the Service 20 to Livingston, it would serve Broxburn, Uphall and Pumpherston in the process. Pumpherston needs a Sunday Service and a later link from Livingston too.

The X38 doesn’t go to Livingston

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The X38 doesn’t go to Livingston

Yes, that's why I put it in brackets and said linking Linlithgow and beyond.

 

[Busman757]

The X40 will follow the current X40 route from St John’s to The Centre. After it will head up the fastlink, follow the X27 route from Lizzie Brice’s Roundabout to Hermiston roundabout, serve Hermiston P&R, Calder Road, Wester Hailes Road, Westside Plaza, Wester Hailes Road, join City Bypass at Barberton Slip road, City Bypass, off at Lasswade Slip Road, Gilmerton Station Road, Drum Street, Ferniehill Drive, Old Dalkeith Road to the ERI.

Map taken from the LCB Facebook page announcing the awarding of service 72 and X40

Would the new LCB version of the X40 serve Calderwood as the current X27 or the pre-august route? Does Calderwood really need another route?

Will follow the current X27 route through the newer part of Calderwood.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I notice the mistake now, I will edit it.

 

[stevenedin]

I notice the mistake now, I will edit it.

No worries, I just thought as well the X18 doesn’t serve Livingston either.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

No worries, I just thought as well the X18 doesn’t serve Livingston either.

Hopefully the X17 comes back in the near future to give a Lothian Country link from Corstorphine to Livingston!

 

[stevenedin]

Hopefully the X17 comes back in the near future to give a Lothian Country link from Corstorphine to Livingston!

Hopefully, although the X24 already covers this and the 23 goes covers Uphall Station and Pumpherston, the only way I’d see it work is if it served Uphall Station and Pumpherston to reinstate the link from there to Edinburgh.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

How do you plan to separate an every 40 minute service from an every 60 minute one though? To have them every 30 minutes apart would be impossible.

The X40 will probably be added to run whenever it does I think, and not specifically to be balanced from the X27.

Either that or the every 30 minute service returns to the X27 and then they’re balanced that way. That’s the only way it can reasonably work.

That is if on the same day these services start LCB have a service change, so if the X27/X28 have a frequency change!

I wonder how late the X40 is going to run, I know the 72 will run as late as 10pm but the last 40/X40 departs the Royal at about 9pm I believe?

Hopefully the X17 comes back in the near future to give a Lothian Country link from Corstorphine to Livingston!

I won't hold my breath anytime soon, I would like to see more services for Lothian Country as much as the next person, but I think the priority is seeing how well these new services work out before trying to rebuild their whole network again, plus it's the case of them needing more drivers aswell I believe.

Maybe in a year's time we can see the X17 coming back in some fashion, even if it's just as far as Livingston.

 

[stevenedin]

What you’ve got to remember is it will be West Lothian Council that has set out the route. They’ve obviously taken the decision for it not to serve Ratho. What I haven’t seen mentioned is weather the service 40 will still run by EMH.

Replying from the Lothian Group thread as it’s more relevant here, the 40 wasn’t mentioned on the West Lothian Council page as being withdrawn so possibly that service will still be retained by another operator.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Replying from the Lothian Group thread as it’s more relevant here, the 40 wasn’t mentioned on the West Lothian Council page as being withdrawn so possibly that service will still be retained by another operator.

I think Horsburgh is not planning to continue the 40 in any shape, but it is possible if the X40 proves popular LCB could maybe do a version of the 40

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Replying from the Lothian Group thread as it’s more relevant here, the 40 wasn’t mentioned on the West Lothian Council page as being withdrawn so possibly that service will still be retained by another operator.

I think the 40 is gone, as it’s likely treated as all part of the same route.

I’m sure Edinburgh Council would’ve been the ones who paid for the 40 to divert to specifically serve Ratho. I find it somewhat unlikely that West Lothian Council would’ve paid for that part. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Dropping the 40 will probably make the residents of Ratho feel cut off, but if I’m totally honest passenger numbers towards the Royal Infirmary must’ve been low. When you consider that Ratho had a direct bus to the Royal Infirmary and some (admittedly few) areas in Edinburgh don’t, it doesn’t seem that balanced to me. Again, usage towards St John’s was probably even lower.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think the 40 is gone, as it’s likely treated as all part of the same route.

I’m sure Edinburgh Council would’ve been the ones who paid for the 40 to divert to specifically serve Ratho. I find it somewhat unlikely that West Lothian Council would’ve paid for that part. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Dropping the 40 will probably make the residents of Ratho feel cut off, but if I’m totally honest passenger numbers towards the Royal Infirmary must’ve been low. When you consider that Ratho had a direct bus to the Royal Infirmary and some (admittedly few) areas in Edinburgh don’t, it doesn’t seem that balanced to me. Again, usage towards St John’s was probably even lower.

I suppose it was like when the 24 bus ran from Balerno to St Johns, use it or lose it!

It is a shame but I suppose you can't force a bus service that might be useful for maybe 2-3 people a day maximum, at least Ratho still has the 20.. for now!

 

[danielhogg2005]

I don't see Lothian running any form of the 40 to Ratho as the roads between Hermiston and Ratho didn't look like it would be safe to run Lothian Buses on them as the Horsburgh Dart I was on passed a tractor on that road and it looked very close to the bus.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I don't see Lothian running any form of the 40 to Ratho as the roads between Hermiston and Ratho didn't look like it would be safe to run Lothian Buses on them as the Horsburgh Dart I was on passed a tractor on that road and it looked very close to the bus.

How would it not be safe? Horsburgh use B7RLEs on it all the time that cope perfectly fine which are ironically ex Lothian

 

[danielhogg2005]

How would it not be safe? Horsburgh use B7RLEs on it all the time that cope perfectly fine which are ironically ex Lothian

I only saw from the Dart I was on, it could've been just from that journey I had so others could be fine.

Also this was just on Gogarmuir Road going to Ratho and I've only used the 40 once recently so I don't know how other vehicles handle it.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I noticed that since the announcement on Social Media, Ratho residents have not cried out about the loss of the 40, which means either the loss of the service is not a big deal or they don't realise the service is going.

I'm assuming the X40 is going to be all stopping in the Sighthill/Wester Hailes area and, of course, omitting Clovenstone.

 

[danielhogg2005]

I'm assuming the X40 is going to be all stopping in the Sighthill/Wester Hailes area and, of course, omitting ClClovenstone.

Yes it will be all stopping.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Yes it will be all stopping.

That's good! Really makes you wonder why it's still called the X40 then? (Except of course it's non stop section on the City Bypass)

Also I'm going to assume it's running on Wester Hailes Road in both directions and not pulling a 30/33 and running via Harvesters Way! Bus stops may be needed on the other side of the road for access to Baberton

 

[Busman757]

That's good! Really makes you wonder why it's still called the X40 then? (Except of course it's non stop section on the City Bypass)

Also I'm going to assume it's running on Wester Hailes Road in both directions and not pulling a 30/33 and running via Harvesters Way! Bus stops may be needed on the other side of the road for access to Baberton

Wester Hailes Road in Both directions.

 

[gavin1985]

Wester Hailes Road in Both directions.

Ideally this is how the 400 should run and not divert into Wester Hailes itself

 

[mb88]

It’ll be interesting to see the timetable for the X40. The current E&M Horsburgh timetable has exactly the same running time at all times of day making no allowances for peak traffic on the bypass. In theory a bus can complete one round trip in 2 hours meaning an hourly service would only require 2 buses. How feasible is this in practice? How reliable is it currently? On the other hand, even taking into account increasing the running time for the slightly more circuitous route round Wester Hailes, and making allowances for peak traffic, having 3 buses on it would mean quite significant amounts of recovery time. As a council tender, would they be prepared to pay for this given the current circumstances?

 

[Jordan Adam]

It’ll be interesting to see the timetable for the X40. The current E&M Horsburgh timetable has exactly the same running time at all times of day making no allowances for peak traffic on the bypass. In theory a bus can complete one round trip in 2 hours meaning an hourly service would only require 2 buses. How feasible is this in practice? How reliable is it currently? On the other hand, even taking into account increasing the running time for the slightly more circuitous route round Wester Hailes, and making allowances for peak traffic, having 3 buses on it would mean quite significant amounts of recovery time. As a council tender, would they be prepared to pay for this given the current circumstances?

Some of the peak runs seem to interwork with other stuff.

For example I've seen the 17:10 X40 from Edinburgh Royal Infirmary which arrives at St John's at 18:09 go on to work the 18:24 7 to South Queensferry, meanwhile the 18:20 X40 from St John's back to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary appeared to come out of service from elsewhere.

 

[LiviCrazy]

It’ll be interesting to see the timetable for the X40. The current E&M Horsburgh timetable has exactly the same running time at all times of day making no allowances for peak traffic on the bypass. In theory a bus can complete one round trip in 2 hours meaning an hourly service would only require 2 buses. How feasible is this in practice? How reliable is it currently? On the other hand, even taking into account increasing the running time for the slightly more circuitous route round Wester Hailes, and making allowances for peak traffic, having 3 buses on it would mean quite significant amounts of recovery time. As a council tender, would they be prepared to pay for this given the current circumstances?

Do the council or Lothian Country set the timetable, or a combination (ie Council set frequency, but LCB set the actual timetable). Not saying Horsburgh are anywhere near reliable, in recent times they definitely haven’t been, but my own observations (from tracking, being on the bus myself and often seeing two together, even early in the morning and late in the evening) are that LCB seem to struggle with punctuality on the routes that they timetable (seems like the routes have got busier and stop more often without ever factoring in extra time for them), so don’t know how they will cope on one of the council’s very tightly timed routes.

With it now being LCB and Ridacards likely to be accepted going forwards, I can see a lot more city passengers using them making it harder to stay on time even without bypass traffic.

 

[JKP]

Do the council or Lothian Country set the timetable, or a combination (ie Council set frequency, but LCB set the actual timetable). Not saying Horsburgh are anywhere near reliable, in recent times they definitely haven’t been, but my own observations (from tracking, being on the bus myself and often seeing two together, even early in the morning and late in the evening) are that LCB seem to struggle with punctuality on the routes that they timetable (seems like the routes have got busier and stop more often without ever factoring in extra time for them), so don’t know how they will cope on one of the council’s very tightly timed routes.

With it now being LCB and Ridacards likely to be accepted going forwards, I can see a lot more city passengers using them making it harder to stay on time even without bypass traffic.

It is normal practice for the local authority to specify the timetable in full. However, having said that it is the responsibility of the operator to ensure that they can operate the route reliably and within the Traffic Commissioners guidelines of no more than 1 minute early or 5 minutes late. Many local authorities allow operators to submit bids for alternative tenders in which the operator specifies the timetable whilst maintaining the frequency of the service specified by the LA, especially if by tweaking the timetable the route can be inter worked with other routes.