Edinburgh & the Lothians bus network speculations & ideas

[DespacitoPlayz]

and if LCB take on the 20, 40 and 63 then we will be prepared.

I'm pretty sure the 20 will most likely go to LB as it isn't really in West Lothian.

At least extending 2 to Heriot Watt would give Broomhouse, southside and Niddrie a direct link to the university.

Broomhouse: With Heriot-Watt being very close and also being the major university in the area, Broomhouse needs a connection!
Southside: Doesn't Service 35/45 already do this with the connection at South Bridge and Bristo Square?
Niddrie: I don't think anybody from Niddrie would be going to Heriot-Watt with Queen Margaret Uni and Jewel and Esk being not to far away.

Also, would this run via the A720? I think Lothian would be hesitent having an active bus on the bypass.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I'm pretty sure the 20 will most likely go to LB as it isn't really in West Lothian.

Broomhouse: With Heriot-Watt being very close and also being the major university in the area, Broomhouse needs a connection!
Southside: Doesn't Service 35/45 already do this with the connection at South Bridge and Bristo Square?
Niddrie: I don't think anybody from Niddrie would be going to Heriot-Watt with Queen Margaret Uni and Jewel and Esk being not to far away.

Also, would this run via the A720? I think Lothian would be hesitent having an active bus on the bypass.

Well the 63 doesn't serve West Lothian either but both services run via the CityWest Zone and unless they want to break consistency then I would see these services getting the LCB Treatment

When I was talking about Southside I was meaning more beyond Surgeons Hall/Newington area, and you never know with Niddrie? technically you could say the same for the likes of the 4 serving Queen Margaret Uni when it paases Napier at Craiglockheart!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Broomhouse: With Heriot-Watt being very close and also being the major university in the area, Broomhouse needs a connection!
Southside: Doesn't Service 35/45 already do this with the connection at South Bridge and Bristo Square?
Niddrie: I don't think anybody from Niddrie would be going to Heriot-Watt with Queen Margaret Uni and Jewel and Esk being not to far away.

You’d be surprised. Unis don't have catchment areas like schools. Many people cross city commute for uni/college so there will be a demand, albeit small, from Niddrie/Craigmillar-Heriot Watt.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

You’d be surprised. Unis dont have catchment areas like schools many people cross city commute for uni/college so there will be a demand albeit small from Niddrie/Craigmillar-Heriot Watt

Well think about the sort of links we have? Like Portobello to Heriot Watt? or Ocean Terminal to Heriot Watt, Hillend to Queen Margaret Uni, Bonnington to Craiglockheart!

 

[roadierway77]

I'm aware it's a bit out of the way but I wonder if Riccarton could be incorporated into the 400's route. Heriot-Watt is a big uni for international students, therefore there is likely some demand for a direct link to the airport, and it would provide a fast direct connection from much of south Edinburgh.

 

[A330Alex]

I'm aware it's a bit out of the way but I wonder if Riccarton could be incorporated into the 400's route. Heriot-Watt is a big uni for international students, therefore there is likely some demand for a direct link to the airport, and it would provide a fast direct connection from much of south Edinburgh.

Adding Riccarton as part of the existing route would add ~15min of journey time which presumably isn’t worthwhile. You could use Gogar Station Road instead, but that would bypass trip generators in the Gyle/Edinburgh Park area.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I'm aware it's a bit out of the way but I wonder if Riccarton could be incorporated into the 400's route. Heriot-Watt is a big uni for international students, therefore there is likely some demand for a direct link to the airport, and it would provide a fast direct connection from much of south Edinburgh.

I remember a while back when there was talk on the 18 (former 400) was going to have split journeys to Balerno, thing is the 45 does cover the link between Firhill-Currie, but it stops after 5pm so it's a pretty butchered link.

The closest the Airport has a link to Heriot Watt is the 63, which could maybe run into Inglilston P&R? the 20 already does for some reason so see no reason why the 63 can't?

I can't see any of these current routes be changed to accommodate a South link to Riccarton unless it's a brand new service.

 

[roadierway77]

Adding Riccarton as part of the existing route would add ~15min of journey time which presumably isn’t worthwhile. You could use Gogar Station Road instead, but that would bypass trip generators in the Gyle/Edinburgh Park area.

If you cut out Clovenstone Road and Hermiston P&R and run via the 63's route between Calder Road and the Gyle, you'd probably be able to reduce any added time to about six minutes, which isn't a massive difference and doesn't alter the routes PVR - though of course South Gyle Crescent and Bankhead Avenue would lose a service.

In addition, the 400 has a dense sequence of stops in Oxgangs, Swanston and Moredun - you could potentially cut a few of these out to quicken journey times by a couple of minutes. The time given for buses to travel between the Gyle and the Airport is also quite generous and I believe it doesn't usually take fourteen minutes, more like ten to twelve.

Perhaps it wouldn't work, but I do think any 'orbital' route should include Riccarton in its route as it's a major destination on the outskirts of the city. And also I'm a student there, so I'm a little biased...

 

[ScotRail158725]

I'm aware it's a bit out of the way but I wonder if Riccarton could be incorporated into the 400's route. Heriot-Watt is a big uni for international students, therefore there is likely some demand for a direct link to the airport, and it would provide a fast direct connection from much of south Edinburgh.

This might be the most outrageous suggestion I've ever seen.

If you cut out Clovenstone Road and Hermiston P&R and run via the 63's route between Calder Road and the Gyle, you'd probably be able to reduce any added time to about six minutes, which isn't a massive difference and doesn't alter the routes PVR - though of course South Gyle Crescent and Bankhead Avenue would lose a service.

It would be a lot more than 6 minutes. More like ~15 if you’re lucky.

In addition, the 400 has a dense sequence of stops in Oxgangs, Swanston and Moredun - you could potentially cut a few of these out to quicken journey times by a couple of minutes. The time given for buses to travel between the Gyle and the Airport is also quite generous and I believe it doesn't usually take fourteen minutes, more like ten to twelve.

Cutting out stops so you can add a lengthy 15 minute diversion so that it essentially serves 1 stop? Do you want these people going to Heriot-Watt to get on or not?

Perhaps it wouldn't work, but I do think any 'orbital' route should include Riccarton in its route as it's a major destination on the outskirts of the city.

Theres no perhaps about it. Cutting out Wester Hailes, which is one of the 400's busiest sections, for picking up and dropping off to serve 1 stop at Heriot-Watt which already has its fair share of buses - yeah that would absolutely impact any effectiveness of the route. Cutting out stops as well is ridiculous; it's a busy route throughout. None of the current orbital routes would have a benefit serving Riccarton as in serving there you would lose a main part of the route

 

[stevenedin]

The 44 is a route I think would benefit from being cut into sections/in half as it would mean buses would have a shorter journeys before going the opposite direction instead of having to go all the way from Balerno to Wallyford, this would improve the timekeeping of the route but might affect anyone who crosses through the city centre on the route regularly.

Replying from the Lothian Group thread.

I think that this could work, the routes could be:

44 Balerno - Waterloo Place

144 Wallyford - Haymarket (changed to East Coast Buses operation)

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The tender spec was to serve the west end of Winchburgh before heading back east towards Kirkliston using the new road layout. However, initially the expectation was that buses would be able to turn somewhere around the new school, and head back along the main road.

Maybe that will change further on along the line, at the end of the day the area is still served so let's just hope this service pays off!

Upon closer thought I do have some reservations on the X40, since I'm guessing the 40 itself is not going to be part of the service leaving Ratho and Gogarburn without a service, and also Westside Plaza is now part of the route?

I'm assuming the service will run past Hermiston onto Calder Road and serve the Plaza before continuing on down Wester Hailes Road onto the bypass?

I mean.. sure? But honestly is serving Westside Plaza going to add anything onto the route? Maybe it the bus was running via Ratho and Gogarburn it would kind of make sense but what I'm getting is that it's giving Livingston and Hermiston a link to Wester Hailes, which again.. sure?

 

[buslad1988]

Maybe that will change further on along the line, at the end of the day the area is still served so let's just hope this service pays off!

Upon closer thought I do have some reservations on the X40, since I'm guessing the 40 itself is not going to be part of the service leaving Ratho and Gogarburn without a service, and also Westside Plaza is now part of the route?

I'm assuming the service will run past Hermiston onto Calder Road and serve the Plaza before continuing on down Wester Hailes Road onto the bypass?

I mean.. sure? But honestly is serving Westside Plaza going to add anything onto the route? Maybe it the bus was running via Ratho and Gogarburn it would kind of make sense but what I'm getting is that it's giving Livingston and Hermiston a link to Wester Hailes, which again.. sure?

Maybe for connectivity with the 400 and city services… also giving Edinburgh locals from those areas a fast bus to both St John’s Hospital and Royal Infirmary.

The more folk you can attract to a service the more sustainable it’ll become in the long term.

Not to mention ridacard users and Lothian staff additional travel options.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I'm getting is that it's giving Livingston and Hermiston a link to Wester Hailes, which again.. sure?

Or think about it this way, It is giving Wester Hailes a fast link to the Royal Infirmary.

Maybe the new X40 will serve Ratho (and maybe Gogarburn) at peak hours only? Just something to keep in mind, although from what I know there is nothing mentioning either of the two places. I hope Lothian Country express services get an upgrade in some sort too.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Or think about it this way, It is giving Wester Hailes a fast link to the Royal Infirmary.

Maybe the new X40 will serve Ratho (and maybe Gogarburn) at peak hours only? Just something to keep in mind, although from what I know there is nothing mentioning either of the two places. I hope Lothian Country express services get an upgrade in some sort too.

That's a fair point, I mean if it works then great!

Hopefully once the services are announced publicly we will get some more info, I do hope Ratho gets some sort of service.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Maybe the new X40 will serve Ratho (and maybe Gogarburn) at peak hours only? Just something to keep in mind, although from what I know there is nothing mentioning either of the two places. I hope Lothian Country express services get an upgrade in some sort too.

I myself still think the X40 will end up picking up Ratho, as it’s highly likely the PVR is going to increase to 3 now with the rerouting via Westside Plaza.

My current prediction is 195-198 for the X40, leaving 1 spare. While I think 841-850 will all end up at Livingston both for the 72 and an increase of the X27/X28 returning to every 15 minutes. The X27 going back to Whitburn while a popular suggestion is probably unlikely at this time.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I myself still think the X40 will end up picking up Ratho, as it’s highly likely the PVR is going to increase to 3 now with the rerouting via Westside Plaza.

My current prediction is 195-198 for the X40, leaving 1 spare. While I think 841-850 will all end up at Livingston both for the 72 and an increase of the X27/X28 returning to every 15 minutes. The X27 going back to Whitburn while a popular suggestion is probably unlikely at this time.

I hope it does, the section the 40 currently runs would be missed completely and also it gives Lothian a chance to build back it's Ratho commuters! although I have only used the 40 once I have heard the section is pretty quiet between Hermiston and Ratho, but then again the X27/X28 already run down the Dalmahoy corridor so a double service is really unnecessary.

Maybe the X27 will return to Whitburn in due time but I think increasing the frequency of the current route is a priority first, I know it's a tendered route but I feel the 72 would of benefited from extending to Queensferry also, at least to guarantee a connection to the 43, maybe in due time? But let's see how this works out!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2023 ==

I hope it does, the section the 40 currently runs would be missed completely and also it gives Lothian a chance to build back it's Ratho commuters!

Penny for a thought here.. since it's already confirmed that the X40 is serving Calderwood, would it make sense for the service to run direct via Clifton Road, Cliftonhall Road for Bonnington and then via Wilkieston Road for Ratho?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Penny for a thought here.. since it's already confirmed that the X40 is serving Calderwood, would it make sense for the service to run direct via Clifton Road, Cliftonhall Road for Bonnington and then via Wilkieston Road for Ratho?

Having gone up Clifton Road a couple of times I don’t think it’s suitable for a long wheelbase bus.

I’d leave it doing the existing route between Wilkieston and Hermiston P&R via Ratho.

 

[overthewater]

I think some people are jumping the gun here with the X40, and believe it will not server Ratho but instead operate alongside X27 to operate a 30mins service from Livingston - Calderwood - P&R. Thus restoring the 15mins service between Livingston and the outskirts of Edinburgh.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Having gone up Clifton Road a couple of times I don’t think it’s suitable for a long wheelbase bus.

I’d leave it doing the existing route between Wilkieston and Hermiston P&R via Ratho.

Fair enough, I've never been up the road myself or course just observing maps and such!

I think some people are jumping the gun here with the X40, and believe it will not server Ratho but instead operate alongside X27 to operate a 30mins service from Livingston - Calderwood - P&R. Thus restoring the 15mins service between Livingston and the outskirts of Edinburgh.

To be fair it's hard to really say because it's all early days, the hope is that it will serve Ratho but unless someone here is a Lothian Country worker who knows what the route map will be, we will have no idea for sure untill an official announcement or timetable is released!

Eitherway it's good that the service is going to Lothian Country, I can only hope this will do well for their West Lothian operation.

 

[overthewater]

The reason I don't think Ratho will be served is because it's in Edinburgh city council area, and West Lothian has already said no money to Falkirk and No7. Of course Edinburgh council might revised the 20 to operate down to Hermiston Park n ride like it used to do many moons ago when it was the old 36/37

 

[stevenedin]

Does anyone know when the City of Edinburgh Council tendered services are due for renewal?

 

[Busman757]

The X40 will follow the current X40 route from St John’s to The Centre. After it will head up the fastlink, follow the X27 route from Lizzie Brice’s Roundabout to Hermiston roundabout, serve Hermiston P&R, Calder Road, Wester Hailes Road, Westside Plaza, Wester Hailes Road, join City Bypass at Barberton Slip road, City Bypass, off at Lasswade Slip Road, Gilmerton Station Road, Drum Street, Ferniehill Drive, Old Dalkeith Road to the ERI.

Map taken from the LCB Facebook page announcing the awarding of service 72 and X40.

 

[overthewater]

It was pretty clear it wouldn't serve Ratho; the clues were there, ie operating via Wester Hailes, going via Calderwood. Also, West Lothian council has stopped paying for services outwith its area. I know its shame but alas that's the way the winds are blowing. Hopefully No20 will get extended to partly cover it. I suspect the X40 and X27 will be timed operate 30mins apart, and X28 will be on 20/40 gap.

 

[roadierway77]

The X40 will follow the current X40 route from St John’s to The Centre. After it will head up the fastlink, follow the X27 route from Lizzie Brice’s Roundabout to Hermiston roundabout, serve Hermiston P&R, Calder Road, Wester Hailes Road, Westside Plaza, Wester Hailes Road, join City Bypass at Barberton Slip road, City Bypass, off at Lasswade Slip Road, Gilmerton Station Road, Drum Street, Ferniehill Drive, Old Dalkeith Road to the ERI.

Map taken from the LCB Facebook page announcing the awarding of service 72 and X40.

That's a much better setup for the X40. In its current form it's not much use to anybody. In it's new form under LCB it'll become a much more useful link, supplementing the X27 and 400 and providing more connections to both St John's and ERI.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

That's a much better setup for the X40. In its current form it's not much use to anybody. In it's new form under LCB it'll become a much more useful link, supplementing the X27 and 400 and providing more connections to both St John's and ERI.

It filled a whole dart last week until about Hermiston.

 

[ScotRail158725]

In its current form it's not much use to anybody. In it's new form under LCB it'll become a much more useful link, supplementing the X27 and 400 and providing more connections to both St John's and ERI.

They always fill a dart or RLE on the X40. Sometimes they can be quiet but its 9/10 a full route

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Would the new LCB version of the X40 serve Calderwood as the current X27 or the pre-august route? Does Calderwood really need another route?

 

[stevenedin]

Would the new LCB version of the X40 serve Calderwood as the current X27 or the pre-august route? Does Calderwood really need another route?

I think that with a new neighbourhood which is growing and seems to be well used, it would be the best time to give more links from Calderwood as it will make more people use public transport rather than use the car. If someone needs to go to Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh then it’s ideal and won’t take too long. Also if they have friends/relatives in Wester Hailes, Gilmerton or Ferniehill it also adds these new links. If they are going to Edinburgh city centre rather than waiting on the X27 if an X40 comes, they can switch to another Lothian bus at Hermiston Park & Ride.

 

[overthewater]

I suspect the X40 and X27 will be timed operate 30mins apart, and X28 will be on 20/40 patten on the timetable, so everyone gets a better service.

 

[Jordan Adam]

With new developments its always better to get a bus service launched, extended or diverted early rather than get in late once all the new residents have settled in, even if that means the service initially running near empty.

The change of route to the X40 makes sense.