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My message was really talking about the cost of ferries for motorists and I was making point that people crossing the Channel by car are well catered for. As you are aware, foot passengers have been forgotten.
Forgotten, or naturally dwindled? Every time we see somebody posting on here about the lack of foot passenger provision on here it's pointed out that the Railway and ferry companies persisted with foot passenger offers for many years after the traffic became uneconomic to support, and so they were gradually withdrawn.
Eurostar took a fair amount of that traffic, but much of it went onto the Car shuttle as well. Many of the other channel ports still offer foot passenger tickets, but the Dover-Calais operations are at a different scale altogether to other ports, even Portsmouth. Restoration of Eurostar calls at Ashford and possibly Calais-Frethun would be nice though, ISTR there was a reasonable amount of cross-channel business using those two stations.
To get back to the bike on the ferry option, is there a place in Calais where you could either buy a cheap bike, or rent a bike for the duration of your trip? That way you wouldn't be limited by the times at which southeastern accepts bikes and you could use the DFDS ferries to either Calais or Dunkirk
Thanks to everyone who made suggestions. I had looked at E* via Lille, but at 65km direct from Calais to De Panne, and less via Dunkirk, going 200km Calais > Lille > De Panne just seemed silly. It is what I would do if I had to go there for some reason, but it makes De Panne less appealing as a destination of choice. Taking an otherwise unwanted scrap bicycle and abandoning it at Dunkirk would mean having to leave London after the bike ban ended, and leave the problem of getting another such to travel back (or hope the original was still where it had been left several days earlier), and again just seems silly. We have ended up going somewhere else altogether. That a journey which used to be simple and straightforward has become so difficult is a strange kind of progress. (It must feel worse for inhabitants of Kent, for whom even the E* option would mean a journey the wrong way to get to London first only to come back through Kent again).
I also wanted to go to De Panne and was surprised how hard it was to get to. Originally I had planned to go in 2020 and booked onto a Eurostar to Calais where there was a reasonably timed onward train to Dunkirk then the bus from there. Not as easy as I expected, but not too bad. Of course I never made that trip because with lockdowns and so on the trains got cancelled. Then Eurostar abandoned stopping any trains at Calais.
I did look at the ferry but concluded I'd have to take a car over, which I didn't need or want to (and would likely have to pay to park it somewhere too) or a bike, with similar problems (although at least would not have to pay to park it somewhere) but also the problems of getting a bike from home to Dover in the first place giving restrictions on bikes on peak trains and so on.
In the end when I made the trip in the end last year I ended up doing Eurostar to Brussels and then another train from there all the way back to the coast. More costly and time consuming than the journey I and originally planned and booked and so I was also surprised how hard it is to get to that area, despite how close it is, if you want to do the journey by public transport. However this did work out cheaper than going via Lille if I recall on a Eurostar "any station in Belgium" ticket.
It seems to have become very difficult to get from London to Calais! Most ferries seem to be for motorists only. The only ones I found that we could walk onto were either so early in the morning that we would have to stay the night before in Dover or so late that we would arrive too late to carry on to our destination (De Panne, Belgium).
Mainly Brexit. Aside from the cost of the extra controls needed since then, there used to be a small (but existent) Calais <> London commuter market, which no longer is there now it’s almost impossible to live in Calais and work in London.
Mainly Brexit. Aside from the cost of the extra controls needed since then, there used to be a small (but existent) Calais <> London commuter market, which no longer is there now it’s almost impossible to live in Calais and work in London.
And we are left with the ironic absurdity that building a new and very expensive railway has led to travelling from Kent to the Pas de Calais becoming a bit easier for motorists but much more difficult than before for anyone else.
Mainly Brexit. Aside from the cost of the extra controls needed since then, there used to be a small (but existent) Calais <> London commuter market, which no longer is there now it’s almost impossible to live in Calais and work in London.
I believe there are still a couple of private minibuses that run as a sort of commuter club from the Calais Area to London daily mostly Docklands. Its fair to say that the Calais to London commuters didn't by and large come from Calais itself. Theres buses in both direction that are run by private concerns and the governments themselves.
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Its a bit late for the OP but Flixbus run a scheduled coach from Victoria Coach station direct to De Panne on Fri/Sat/Sun now and there's 3 daily services to Brugge throughout the week (train back to Oostende and then bus or coastal tram to DePanne).
I also wanted to go to De Panne and was surprised how hard it was to get to. Originally I had planned to go in 2020 and booked onto a Eurostar to Calais where there was a reasonably timed onward train to Dunkirk then the bus from there. Not as easy as I expected, but not too bad. Of course I never made that trip because with lockdowns and so on the trains got cancelled. Then Eurostar abandoned stopping any trains at Calais.
I did look at the ferry but concluded I'd have to take a car over, which I didn't need or want to (and would likely have to pay to park it somewhere too) or a bike, with similar problems (although at least would not have to pay to park it somewhere) but also the problems of getting a bike from home to Dover in the first place giving restrictions on bikes on peak trains and so on.
In the end when I made the trip in the end last year I ended up doing Eurostar to Brussels and then another train from there all the way back to the coast. More costly and time consuming than the journey I and originally planned and booked and so I was also surprised how hard it is to get to that area, despite how close it is, if you want to do the journey by public transport. However this did work out cheaper than going via Lille if I recall on a Eurostar "any station in Belgium" ticket.
The direct way to get from south-east England to the Belgian coast used to be the ferry to Ostend - since Ostend had (and has) connections more or less at the dockside onto trains and the coastal trams. However, no boats to Ostend take foot passengers any more - meaning a waste of an integrated connection for surface public transport. It was once my route of choice, by foot or with a bike - not only for the coast, but for journeys to Brussels and beyond.
The direct way to get from south-east England to the Belgian coast used to be the ferry to Ostend - since Ostend had (and has) connections more or less at the dockside onto trains and the coastal trams. However, no boats to Ostend take foot passengers any more - meaning a waste of an integrated connection for surface public transport. It was once my route of choice, by foot or with a bike - not only for the coast, but for journeys to Brussels and beyond.
I may be wrong but i don't think there are any ferries at all to Ostend anymore. Think the last one was from Margate. I think there was talk of the Hull to Zebrugge ferry being diverted there but that died a death. The Ferry Terminal is used for Cruise Ships only now.
I may be wrong but i don't think there are any ferries at all to Ostend anymore. Think the last one was from Margate. I think there was talk of the Hull to Zebrugge ferry being diverted there but that died a death. The Ferry Terminal is used for Cruise Ships only now.
You could be right - since I know you can't do it on foot, I've not kept up with whether there's still an option with a car or lorry, which is irrelevant for me.
The Hull idea is an interesting one, for continental foot passenger connections from northern England - I'm sure there isn't such an integrated port/rail set up at Zeebrugge! But maybe Ostend is seen as less attractive for vehicles. Pity though.
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Yes - there has been some refurbishment, to link the station more closely into the tram stops, and the tracks aren't literally on the quayside. But still, once you walk off the end of the platforms, you're barely 50 yards from walking into the door of the old port terminal building; and the bus station - on another other side of the port building - is as close on that side.
Overall, the whole set-up - [largely unused] port building, buses, trams, trains - is in effect integrated in a way that we can only dream of in terms of most port facilities on our side of the Channel.
[Pedant's addition. The platforms are immediately to the south of the terminal, not the east, since the dock-water interface runs more or less north-south at that point rather than the east-west one might assume. But conceptually, I know what you mean!]
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Overall, the whole set-up - [largely unused] port building, buses, trams, trains - is in effect integrated in a way that we can only dream of in terms of most port facilities on our side of the Channel.
When I visited Ostend while exploring the Kusttram, I couldn’t help but feel sad that such a superbly integrated transport hub is no longer used to its potential.
As you say, trams, trains and buses all meeting, and it’s right in the city centre too - it would be perfect to get a ferry here. Such a shame. I believe Ostend is where some TEE (Trans Europa Express) operated to as well.
Also, for a port city, Ostend is actually an attractive destination and well worth a visit. Most port cities I can think of are rather grim.
When I visited Ostend while exploring the Kusttram, I couldn’t help but feel sad that such a superbly integrated transport hub is no longer used to its potential.
As you say, trams, trains and buses all meeting, and it’s right in the city centre too - it would be perfect to get a ferry here. Such a shame. I believe Ostend is where some TEE (Trans Europa Express) operated to as well.
Problem is it's twice as far from Dover as Calais is, so the ship can only make half as many journeys, and therefore there's half as many people to charge. Given foot traffic is a tiny proportion of cross-channel traffic and ferries compete poorly against Eurostar or cheap flights (except for a certain niche), it's not surprising ferry companies don't consider it worth their while.
When I visited Ostend while exploring the Kusttram, I couldn’t help but feel sad that such a superbly integrated transport hub is no longer used to its potential.
As you say, trams, trains and buses all meeting, and it’s right in the city centre too - it would be perfect to get a ferry here. Such a shame. I believe Ostend is where some TEE (Trans Europa Express) operated to as well.
Yes - there were international trains starting from there years back, though I'm nor sure where to, since personally I mostly only used it for connections to Belgium. (Hook of Holland also used to have through carriages from the dockside to all over Europe - which I used a few times - and at least there's still a good ferry-train connection there [and on the British side too on that route!], even if you now need to start with a metro train for the first leg.)
Problem is it's twice as far from Dover as Calais is, so the ship can only make half as many journeys, and therefore there's half as many people to charge. Given foot traffic is a tiny proportion of cross-channel traffic and ferries compete poorly against Eurostar or cheap flights (except for a certain niche), it's not surprising ferry companies don't consider it worth their while.
As flights get more and more restricted, and surface transport takes a larger share of the market, I'd see a possibility for a fast ferry to Ostend from somewhere on the British side with a decent rail connection, and - even if not through international trains - extra capacity from Ostend to Brussels Midi, where there are already quite a few international links. And the idea of one or more of the new European sleeper service starting from Ostend, prior to picking up in Brussels and elsewhere, would be incredibly convenient for Brits, if combined with a fast ferry to Ostend from our side.
The Hull idea is an interesting one, for continental foot passenger connections from northern England - I'm sure there isn't such an integrated port/rail set up at Zeebrugge! But maybe Ostend is seen as less attractive for vehicles. Pity though.
One problem is that Ostend is relatively poorly located for onwards travel. Trucks can get into Rotterdam and straight out on the motorway, and this is where the money is. Rotterdam also represents a several hour time saving for trucks coming from the east, so Ostend simply loses out.
I just can't see any situation where Ostend comes back into use as a ferry terminal, except as a possible very low cost route to Ramsgate for freight, just as it was under TEF. Perhaps if you bought the Moby Niki - https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/commercial-vessels-ferry-roro-ferries-for-sale/739610 - and another similar vessel, it could work. Ostend-Ramsgate is about 4 hours sailing time, so with two vessels, you could have departures every 3 hours from each port.
The linkspan is still in place in Ramsgate, as in Ostend, but Ostend would require some sort of marshalling area outside town for trucks because there's no way the locals would accept a return of heavy traffic without it.
But could you operate a cheaper service than the Dover ferries despite the increased distance?
Back in the '80s there was also the Jetfoil Dover - Ostend which was quite civilised (although rather weather dependent) and did it in about 2h 40m. Unlike the hovercraft to Boulogne / Calais it could depart from Dover Marine, so no fiddling around with the bus from Priory and you could make a snappy connection with the train. On one ocacasion on a trip to Scandinavia I took it in preference to the Ostend boat train / ship, allowing plenty of time for a rather late lunch in Ostend before boarding the ovenight 'Nord Express'. Happy days!
Back in the '80s there was also the Jetfoil Dover - Ostend which was quite civilised (although rather weather dependent) and did it in about 2h 40m. Unlike the hovercraft to Boulogne / Calais it could depart from Dover Marine, so no fiddling around with the bus from Priory and you could make a snappy connection with the train. On one ocacasion on a trip to Scandinavia I took it in preference to the Ostend boat train / ship, allowing plenty of time for a rather late lunch in Ostend before boarding the ovenight 'Nord Express'. Happy days!
Yes - that's exactly the sort of civilised and well-connected-at-the-port surface route that's needed. Easy interconnections are worth a slightly slower journey in my view - especially for a journey which is a long one with an overnight leg anyway. If air travel really is reined in - which is environmentally crucial - then maybe a revival of such routes might happen one day.
Yes - that's exactly the sort of civilised and well-connected-at-the-port surface route that's needed. Easy interconnections are worth a slightly slower journey in my view - especially for a journey which is a long one with an overnight leg anyway. If air travel really is reined in - which is environmentally crucial - then maybe a revival of such routes might happen one day.
The problem is that Harwich and Newhaven are the only (passenger) railconnected ports on the UK side,and neither exactly fits with Ostend.
And (apart from niche markets like East Kent-Mainland and UK-Channel Coast) you're talking several hours extra on the journey, even if you could reinstate the Folkestone Harbour branch (Dover is far less likely).
Shame - I enjoy ferries, and Kiel, Kristiansand, Hirtshals and others still offer reasonable rail-sea possibilities (and foot-passenger-friendly ferries).
As flights get more and more restricted, and surface transport takes a larger share of the market, I'd see a possibility for a fast ferry to Ostend from somewhere on the British side with a decent rail connection, and - even if not through international trains - extra capacity from Ostend to Brussels Midi, where there are already quite a few international links. And the idea of one or more of the new European sleeper service starting from Ostend, prior to picking up in Brussels and elsewhere, would be incredibly convenient for Brits, if combined with a fast ferry to Ostend from our side.
A fast ferry is very expensive to run because you need a lot more power to push through water than, say, air. And that means powerful engines, so you'd need a new design of fast ferry to be zero emissions which is going to cost a fortune to develop for a limited market.
Maybe if you installed chargers on the car deck you might have a USP. However I think you are more likely to see a return of Eurostar stopping at Calais than a fast ferry.
The problem is that Harwich and Newhaven are the only (passenger) railconnected ports on the UK side,and neither exactly fits with Ostend.
And (apart from niche markets like East Kent-Mainland and UK-Channel Coast) you're talking several hours extra on the journey, even if you could reinstate the Folkestone Harbour branch (Dover is far less likely).
Shame - I enjoy ferries, and Kiel, Kristiansand, Hirtshals and others still offer reasonable rail-sea possibilities (and foot-passenger-friendly ferries).
Well, in any case, some space has been kept free at the east side of Oostende station, near the water, enough to build two more tracks and the corresponding platforms, should boat traffic resume. And current tracks have been numbered 3 to 10, leaving numbers 1 and 2 free in case this would happen. So it seems some people still keep hope that it could happen someday.
Hopping in the car and having a jolly in Calais or Boulogne is much easier than travelling across as a foot passenger because you have the issue of getting from the ferry/train terminal to the actual town (on both sides although Dover is the least problematic of the 4 main terminals).
What a folkestone taxi would charge you to take you across on the train to the beach I don't know...
When we got stranded at the French Eurotunnel terminal due to a car breakdown, I did discover a Calais taxi firm who were happy to do cross-Channel journeys (Taxis du Port if anyone’s interested, +33 3 21 97 13 14).
We ended up doing the Calais-Lille and double back train option, but it did highlight the difficulties of completing that short journey without a car these days (I used to do Boulogne foot passenger day trips with Hoverspeed very regularly in the 90s).
I have recently returned from a break in Boulogne. I live in the London Borough of Bromley. Four years ago when I did the trip I drove to Ebbsfleet, took Eurostar to Calais-Fréthun, and was at my destination in just over two hours with a single change and barely more than the cost of E*. This time I had to go up to London, travel to Lille, and literally double back close to half the distance at considerably greater cost in both time and money.
I made this point when replying to the inevitable customer satisfaction survey from E*, but the absurdity of it all seems beyond their grasp. Surely they must be losing business by keeping their intermediate stations closed?
(Ironically the onboard LED display on the outbound train was still announcing stops at Ebbsfleet and Calais.)
But it's only absurd if a substantial number of people prefer to go to Boulogne rather than Lille or Paris. They can sell out trains from London to Paris non-stop, it would be absurd to start chasing marginal traffic.
Eurostar have explained that the cost of reopening and operating the intermediate stations exceeds the value of the business lost by keeping them closed.
I have recently returned from a break in Boulogne. I live in the London Borough of Bromley. Four years ago when I did the trip I drove to Ebbsfleet, took Eurostar to Calais-Fréthun, and was at my destination in just over two hours with a single change and barely more than the cost of E*. This time I had to go up to London, travel to Lille, and literally double back close to half the distance at considerably greater cost in both time and money.
I made this point when replying to the inevitable customer satisfaction survey from E*, but the absurdity of it all seems beyond their grasp. Surely they must be losing business by keeping their intermediate stations closed?
(Ironically the onboard LED display on the outbound train was still announcing stops at Ebbsfleet and Calais.)
They are more or less filling every train they run and at inflated prices. In short they don't want your business when they can get more form London - Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam.
They are more or less filling every train they run and at inflated prices. In short they don't want your business when they can get more form London - Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam.
I have recently returned from a break in Boulogne. I live in the London Borough of Bromley. Four years ago when I did the trip I drove to Ebbsfleet, took Eurostar to Calais-Fréthun, and was at my destination in just over two hours with a single change and barely more than the cost of E*. This time I had to go up to London, travel to Lille, and literally double back close to half the distance at considerably greater cost in both time and money.
I made this point when replying to the inevitable customer satisfaction survey from E*, but the absurdity of it all seems beyond their grasp. Surely they must be losing business by keeping their intermediate stations closed?
(Ironically the onboard LED display on the outbound train was still announcing stops at Ebbsfleet and Calais.)
Id drive directly to Boulogne (sur-mer) its about 115 miles from Bromley including the chunnel about 3 hours each way. You can get reasonably priced early morning Shuttles and late night returns anytime away from the school break up and last week times. Theres no motorway toll for Calais- Boulogne.
Alternatively if you don't want to take the car go Newhaven-Dieppe. Newhaven Town station is about 200 years walk from the ferry terminal. Dieppe and the baie de la somme towns and villages are at least as good as Boulogne and very friendly and you can ride on the kent & East Sussex railways twin railway. https://www.chemindefer-baiedesomme.fr/en/welcome
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