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I've got 5 days in November, Friday to Tuesday and intend to get a 5 days interrail pass, starting in the North East and hopefully using LNER/Eurostar to get to Europe.
Has anyone got ideas for an itinerary/ places to go?
I like a sleeper train and loco hauled trains. I see sense in doing the Bernina pass whilst I've got the pass as it's otherwise expensive but not so keen on staying over in Switzerland (£££).
First, I would check whether you want all 5 days or whether a 4-day pass plus some local ticketing will be better (it's what I'm doing next month, and that's my third this year) - and remember the early sunsets!
Second, read up Seat61's advice on how to book things, including doing test bookings on b-europe: Friday mornings even in November can be difficult, especially the key 1104 to Brussels/Amsterdam.
If you want sleepers, your options within the time limit are all OeBB Nightjet;again, these may very well be booked out on the Friday night especially. One worth considering (as it doesn't book so heavily) is Milan-Vienna/Munich which would fit with a trip over the Bernina either way.
For loco haulage, it depends on your definition - does a Railjet with loco and driving trailer count? If not, the Brenner route is still pure L/H apart from one marginal time RJ, and there are some in Switzerland and plenty in Czechia and Slovakia.
If you are splashing out on 1st (which given you are coming from the NE is probably cost effective) then I would consider the EC service Zurich-Innsbruck and on to Graz which carries a 1st class Panorama car. I would also look out for the double deck deluxe sleepers on Zurich-Vienna and Zurich-Hamburg.
How you put these together I can't instantly work out - decide what you would most like and I (and others) will gladly have a go..ll
Noted re booking up early (hence why I'm asking now). Thanks for the heads up.
I think a 1st class pass would be financially worth it too.
I think there may be a closure on the Aarlberg so not sure if that would be doable, (and not sure what impact this has on the many sleepers that go from Zurich which is a shame - they don't seem to be bookable at the moment), but I like the idea of using the Milan - Munich sleeper to do the Bernina. That and sampling the doppelschlafwagen would be great!
It was mentioned elsewhere on here that the Swiss stock (including the first class panoramic coach) cease to work these trains from December, so I’d do that too.
I think there may be a closure on the Aarlberg so not sure if that would be doable, (and not sure what impact this has on the many sleepers that go from Zurich which is a shame - they don't seem to be bookable at the moment), but I like the idea of using the Milan - Munich sleeper to do the Bernina. That and sampling the doppelstockschlafwagen would be great!
OeBB say the Arlberg is indeed blocked until midday Monday 6/11 with sleepers diverted (via Munich, there being no alternative). Shame for the Panoramawagen, so try the Rhine Valley instead
Wegen Bauarbeiten können zwischen Ötztal Bahnhof und Bludenz Bahnhof von 09.10.2023 (08:30 Uhr) bis 06.11.2023 (12:00 Uhr) keine Fernverkehrszüge fahren. Ein Schienenersatzverkehr mit Autobussen wird für Sie eingerichtet. Die Nachtzüge werden umgeleitet.
The other cult thing is traditional restaurant cars - the Slovenian, Hungarian and Polish cars out of Wien do real onboard cooking still; CD are particularly good value too.
I've just priced up a bit of a trip and it isn't looking too cheap - the thick edge of £1000 for 5 days (that's with a first class pass)
Day 1: North East – London – Amsterdam and then Nightjet overnight to Vienna
Day 2: A day trip from Vienna, back to Vienna and then nightjet to Milan
Day 3: Milan – Zurich via the Bernina & Abula route. Nightjet to Hamburg
Day 4: Visiting Miniature Wonderland and then to Berlin and then Nightjet to Graz
Day 5: Graz back up to Vienna over the Semmeringbahn and then flying back to Gatwick before train up to the North East.
Its the nightjet reservations at minimum €120 – 140 per night which ramps the cost up. Anyone got any suggestions to keep the costs down? Scrap the nightjets and get hotels (although I do want to do a couple of sleepers)? I understand that MAV and CD sleepers are cheaper but can't find a way of booking them despite following Seat 61's guidance.
I'd definitely advise to book some hotels instead of spending all nights on sleeper trains. While sleepers are great to get somewhere while asleep, you won't necessarily have a great night of sleep in my experience. Apparently you're also travelling in a very popular period or did you book deluxe rooms with shower? I managed to book Vienna - Utrecht for 74 euro (with Interrail) last year in the sleeper car (but not in deluxe) booking only one month in advance for a trip in August. Compared to that 120 to 140 euro sounds excessive.
Also, your whole schedule appears quite full with those whole days on trains. Keep in mind that you should also still enjoy your trip and you'll need some time to relax. I'd skip the detour via Hamburg and Berlin and book something on a strategic location in Austria start and end your travels, that should save a lot of money (as even Swiss hotels are not as expensive as your nights on Nightjets)
Just for comparison: I paid around 1200 euro for 6 nights in a Swiss hotel (walking distance from Basel SBB) and a 7 day first class Interrail pass (at the adult fare) this summer. So your trip should be possible a lot cheaper staying in hotels at cheaper places instead of expensive Nightjet reservations, especially when you'd still be eligible for the youth fare of Interrail.
I've just priced up a bit of a trip and it isn't looking too cheap - the thick edge of £1000 for 5 days (that's with a first class pass)
Day 1: North East – London – Amsterdam and then Nightjet overnight to Vienna
Day 2: A day trip from Vienna, back to Vienna and then nightjet to Milan
Day 3: Milan – Zurich via the Bernina & Abula route. Nightjet to Hamburg
Day 4: Visiting Miniature Wonderland and then to Berlin and then Nightjet to Graz
Day 5: Graz back up to Vienna over the Semmeringbahn and then flying back to Gatwick before train up to the North East.
Its the nightjet reservations at minimum €120 – 140 per night which ramps the cost up. Anyone got any suggestions to keep the costs down? Scrap the nightjets and get hotels (although I do want to do a couple of sleepers)? I understand that MAV and CD sleepers are cheaper but can't find a way of booking them despite following Seat 61's guidance.
Hotels will typically be cheaper than sleeper trains, depending on how budget you wish to be.
What type of 'accommodation' have you booked on sleeper trains? Understandably it is not to everyone's tastes, but shared rooms are a lot cheaper than individual rooms.
Just re EC8/9: we were able find seats on various segments in the Swiss Panaromic coaches in mid-April without having reservations but they were already almost full with large pre-booked groups and we had to move round sometimes ( retreating to the restaurant car was also an option.)
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I'd definitely advise to book some hotels instead of spending all nights on sleeper trains. While sleepers are great to get somewhere while asleep, you won't necessarily have a great night of sleep in my experience. ...
It does sound quite full-on as a plan and I would agree that you should definitely factor-in a few static nights on a longer trip but I'm not sure it's going to be necessary - for everyone - for a 5-day trip. ( Obviously people will vary in their need for sleep and their ability to habituate to sleeping on train.)
Our 2-month 1st cl IR in April-Jun was divided (when we unexpectedly had to return to UK ) into 5 weeks going on a very slow and gentle trundle with side-loops down to Istanbul and back ( which was great) and then a 12-day fast-ish loop round Scandinavia with the time we had left with about half the nights on the move (which was also great.) Maybe, for someone who's young and keen, 5 days going flat-out would be no problem?
Thanks for all your constructive comments. Upon a second look maybe I will choose a hotel for a few of nights, "reign in" my ambitions and then treat myself to a nightjet on one night. I think that I must be travelling at a popular time (weekend of 4th November) as I can't find any NJ for low prices even with interrail although I am selecting solo cabin as I don't fancy sharing with strangers.
Thanks for all your constructive comments. Upon a second look maybe I will choose a hotel for a few of nights, "reign in" my ambitions and then treat myself to a nightjet on one night. I think that I must be travelling at a popular time (weekend of 4th November) as I can't find any NJ for low prices even with interrail although I am selecting solo cabin as I don't fancy sharing with strangers.
NJ supplements are AFAIK the same all the time, though they vary from route to route (Milan used to be cheapest!).
You are travelling 1st weekend of November I think so Vienna-Zurich can't be booked yet; the other double-decker is Zurich-Hamburg, but it looks as though they no longer sell the nice DeLuxe compartments as singles anyway.
That being so, I would just do 1 night in a sleeper (they are all the same design except Zurich-Amsterdam), maybe 2 - even at a much younger age I wouldn't have done more than 2 consecutive nights on the move.
Unlike almost everything else in Switzerland, hotels are generally reasonably priced - there are lots of them and they are fiercely competitive meaning you can usually negotiate a decent rate. November is in the lull between the summer and the winter skiing season - April is another good time to visit for cheap hotels. Chur is my favourite stopover for visiting the Rhaetian Rlys and the Bernina.
Unlike almost everything else in Switzerland, hotels are generally reasonably priced - there are lots of them and they are fiercely competitive meaning you can usually negotiate a decent rate. November is in the lull between the summer and the winter skiing season - April is another good time to visit for cheap hotels. Chur is my favourite stopover for visiting the Rhaetian Rlys and the Bernina.
Agree with that and also noticed hotels just across the border appear to have gone up in price more than the Swiss ones (which often have the benefit of free public transport in the city as well).
For other things it really matters what your point of reference is. I found Swiss at station prices to be considerably lower (up to 50% lower) than the Dutch ones for example.
And outside the city center there definitely are reasonably priced restaurants.
Scrap the nightjets and get hotels (although I do want to do a couple of sleepers)? I understand that MAV and CD sleepers are cheaper but can't find a way of booking them despite following Seat 61's guidance.
If booking on cd.cz with "reservation only" doesn't work, then please mention the exact night train with departure date. Booking possibilities depend on the train and for some trains it may be too early still.
I'm still mulling this over but a thought has occurred to me about the current UK strikes and this scuppering my travel down to Kings Cross before the Eurostar.
I understand that usually for strikes in the UK, LNER would allow me to travel on the day before. Would there be a way to do this with an interrail pass (and grab a cheap hotel) without using up two of my 'home' days?
EDIT: I've just spoken to LNER on Twitter (X?) and they have confirmed that this would be acceptable.
I'm still mulling this over but a thought has occurred to me about the current UK strikes and this scuppering my travel down to Kings Cross before the Eurostar.
I understand that usually for strikes in the UK, LNER would allow me to travel on the day before. Would there be a way to do this with an interrail pass (and grab a cheap hotel) without using up two of my 'home' days?
EDIT: I've just spoken to LNER on Twitter (X?) and they have confirmed that this would be acceptable.
Just re EC8/9: we were able find seats on various segments in the Swiss Panaromic coaches in mid-April without having reservations but they were already almost full with large pre-booked groups and we had to move round sometimes ( retreating to the restaurant car was also an option.)
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
It does sound quite full-on as a plan and I would agree that you should definitely factor-in a few static nights on a longer trip but I'm not sure it's going to be necessary - for everyone - for a 5-day trip. ( Obviously people will vary in their need for sleep and their ability to habituate to sleeping on train.)
Our 2-month 1st cl IR in April-Jun was divided (when we unexpectedly had to return to UK ) into 5 weeks going on a very slow and gentle trundle with side-loops down to Istanbul and back ( which was great) and then a 12-day fast-ish loop round Scandinavia with the time we had left with about half the nights on the move (which was also great.) Maybe, for someone who's young and keen, 5 days going flat-out would be no problem?
Can i pick your brains for your itinery for your April June trip, i want to take in Rijeka then down to Split then ive run out of ideas at moment, i fancy starting Ams-Vienna Munchen - Rijeka , can i search for your itineray post. From Chris
Consider going one way only.
I recently did...
Day 1
Late afternoon London to Brussels on Eurostar
Brussels to Passau on the nightjet
Day 2
Passau to Prague via several loco hauled trains in Czech Republic
Day 3
Day in Prague the night train to Kosice
Day 4
Kosice
Day 5
Kosice to Oradea via Hungary
Day 6
Oradea to Cluj and flight back
2 night trains, loads of loco hauled trips, 2 heritage railways and the model railway restaurant in Prague
Consider going one way only.
I recently did...
Day 1
Late afternoon London to Brussels on Eurostar
Brussels to Passau on the nightjet
Day 2
Passau to Prague via several loco hauled trains in Czech Republic
Day 3
Day in Prague the night train to Kosice
Day 4
Kosice
Day 5
Kosice to Oradea via Hungary
Day 6
Oradea to Cluj and flight back
2 night trains, loads of loco hauled trips, 2 heritage railways and the model railway restaurant in Prague
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What were the Night Trains Like ! . My plan so far is try to stay of night trains for the most part , i want to Gawp out of the window at the passing countryside , might do the one Down to Split! Day One Stockport - Cochem Mosel Day 2 Cochem - Seebrugg / Schlusee Day 3 Schlusee over to Ehrwald Zugspitz Day 4 Ehrwald - Halstatt Austria
That is as far as my planning has got.
i wanted to stop at more scenic places , i have very lightweight camping gear , try to keep costs down
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
First, I would check whether you want all 5 days or whether a 4-day pass plus some local ticketing will be better (it's what I'm doing next month, and that's my third this year) - and remember the early sunsets!
Second, read up Seat61's advice on how to book things, including doing test bookings on b-europe: Friday mornings even in November can be difficult, especially the key 1104 to Brussels/Amsterdam.
If you want sleepers, your options within the time limit are all OeBB Nightjet;again, these may very well be booked out on the Friday night especially. One worth considering (as it doesn't book so heavily) is Milan-Vienna/Munich which would fit with a trip over the Bernina either way.
For loco haulage, it depends on your definition - does a Railjet with loco and driving trailer count? If not, the Brenner route is still pure L/H apart from one marginal time RJ, and there are some in Switzerland and plenty in Czechia and Slovakia.
If you are splashing out on 1st (which given you are coming from the NE is probably cost effective) then I would consider the EC service Zurich-Innsbruck and on to Graz which carries a 1st class Panorama car. I would also look out for the double deck deluxe sleepers on Zurich-Vienna and Zurich-Hamburg.
How you put these together I can't instantly work out - decide what you would most like and I (and others) will gladly have a go..ll
Agree with that and also noticed hotels just across the border appear to have gone up in price more than the Swiss ones (which often have the benefit of free public transport in the city as well).
For other things it really matters what your point of reference is. I found Swiss at station prices to be considerably lower (up to 50% lower) than the Dutch ones for example.
And outside the city center there definitely are reasonably priced restaurants.
I did an 8 day Self planned Swiss Rail Tour with the 8 Day Swiss Rail Pass . Hotels are not that bad for price
Zermatt was £47 Locarno £120 OUCH!!! Pontresina on The Bernina £57 Vitznau £70 Murren £50,food in Restaurants is another story
we did not have to pay to go up Mt Rigi or Mt Pilatus although this has changed now for Pilatus . We had to pay a reduced rate to get up Mannlichen
over to Grindelwald on the cablecar. The pass works out at £43 a day so you have to keep moving and do a lot in those days.
but to be able to hop of Trains Bus's Boats , most funiculars and all cable cars round Lauterbrunnen. Not included is last couple of stations up to the Eiger
and the price is eye watering
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I've just priced up a bit of a trip and it isn't looking too cheap - the thick edge of £1000 for 5 days (that's with a first class pass)
Day 1: North East – London – Amsterdam and then Nightjet overnight to Vienna
Day 2: A day trip from Vienna, back to Vienna and then nightjet to Milan
Day 3: Milan – Zurich via the Bernina & Abula route. Nightjet to Hamburg
Day 4: Visiting Miniature Wonderland and then to Berlin and then Nightjet to Graz
Day 5: Graz back up to Vienna over the Semmeringbahn and then flying back to Gatwick before train up to the North East.
Its the nightjet reservations at minimum €120 – 140 per night which ramps the cost up. Anyone got any suggestions to keep the costs down? Scrap the nightjets and get hotels (although I do want to do a couple of sleepers)? I understand that MAV and CD sleepers are cheaper but can't find a way of booking them despite following Seat 61's guidance.
Scrap the Nightjets and stay a couple of scenic spots in Germany and Austria Ehrwald Zugspitz short hop over to Innsbruck ! Halstatt Austria , there is an article today about Halstatt trying to reduce tourist numbers , town has 700 inhabitants and 1 Million visitors a year
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
OeBB say the Arlberg is indeed blocked until midday Monday 6/11 with sleepers diverted (via Munich, there being no alternative). Shame for the Panoramawagen, so try the Rhine Valley instead
The other cult thing is traditional restaurant cars - the Slovenian, Hungarian and Polish cars out of Wien do real onboard cooking still; CD are particularly good value too.
I have just checked OBB 29/8 From Feldkirch to Innsbruck along The Arlberg its showing as open and running , no Bus replacements. Is this correct and The trains along through the Arlberg are running!.
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