Arriva TOTO is operational throughout the entire Arriva Yorkshire operation so extends to North, South and their tiny bit of East Yorkshire too. I use it for my Selby to York commute and previously weekly capping was very useful so I didn't need to decide in advance whether I would need a weekly ticket. Though now I pretty much never hit the cap. I'm amazed by the number of people who like to slow down boarding by not using it though when they could.
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Trivia: Pay As You Go on UK bus services
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markymark2000
On Moderation
I see this 'except for PTE areas and except for Big 5' rule is working well.
For me, I would be more wary of using it if I don't know the fare in advance. If the fare is astronomical, I would definitely replan my journey. Such as now I use TOTO more because all fares are £2, I know the fare so don't mind it.
Also if I am unsure on multi operator capping etc (as like in Leicester, Vectare only accept paper tickets as they don't have tap on, tap off), I will try to get the paper ticket as I know it will be accepted on all operators.
It's often not promoted by drivers who will happily keep selling single tickets in the normal way rather than pushing people to use Tap on, tap off.
For me, I would be more wary of using it if I don't know the fare in advance. If the fare is astronomical, I would definitely replan my journey. Such as now I use TOTO more because all fares are £2, I know the fare so don't mind it.
Also if I am unsure on multi operator capping etc (as like in Leicester, Vectare only accept paper tickets as they don't have tap on, tap off), I will try to get the paper ticket as I know it will be accepted on all operators.
I've noticed them, but it seems a bit odd as majority of their routes are flat fare.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Reading has short hop fares as well though.
It is much easier though for it to be tap and go wherever possible. Saves on installing tap off machines and saves passengers having to remember to tap off. Saves the ears bleeding due to excessive announcements as well. Almost everyone wins
Down side is operators don't get the data they so want from tap and go as that of course won't show alighting points for passengers
pjnathanail
Member
Leicester Flexi is valid on all Vectare buses in Leicester. The only exception is the part of their NovusFosse route which operates outside of the Leicester Flexi zone. Vectare's NovusFlex DRT service - on which Flexi was not valid - no longer operates. It may be worthwhile editing your original post to clarify this, just in case somebody looking for travel advice stumbles across it on Google etc.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Sorry, clarified my post that it's included in the paper ticket, just not the TOTO (at least it wasn't as of my visit a few months ago)
Is there any publicity about this? I know it was supposed to come in this year, but I've not seen anything about it.
Catching a Jacksons bus, yesterday, the bus can't even scan a DaySaver - the driver used his Mk1 eyeballs to check the ticket.
Living near the border, it'd be useful to be able to be capped at a Keighley Local, DaySaver or a Transdev West Yorkshire + fare, depending what I did that day.
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61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
The cap for within West Yorkshire at the price of the Daysaver has worked for me on combinations of Arriva, First, and Station Coaches services. I haven't used every operator within West Yorkshire, so some of the smaller operators may not be included as yet. No idea what happens with cross-boundary services as I haven't used any.
blueberry11
Member
Norwich is underway. The readers are installed on some of the buses but with a plate saying that it will come soon. Would it be a fixed price (due to fare cap, £2) or would the card have to recognize where the touch in and out happened to calculate the fare? A journey to the city would cost me £2 (due to fare cap, formerly £2.80) but a 4 stop journey would cost £1.50 so is this expected for TOTO.
Not sure if this has been mentioned but the Manchester Trams (TFGM) also require touching in and out and many people fall in the trap.
Not sure if this has been mentioned but the Manchester Trams (TFGM) also require touching in and out and many people fall in the trap.
An odd thing with TOTO on Cardiff Bus. Caught a 27 into the city centre, tapped on but when I went to get off at the last stop on Westgate Street the driver said I didn't need to tap out as he had already done it himself, I think by updating the ticket machine to the next journey. Looked at my bank account this morning and the correct £2.20 fare had been taken out. Does this happen elsewhere with other TOTO companies?
Man of Kent
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As well as the Nat Ex and Diamond own schemes already mentioned in the West Midlands, multi-operator capping is available to users of Swift smartcards, but not with a contactless bank card. Lots more info on the relevant webpage: https://www.tfwm.org.uk/swift-and-tickets/swift-go/#
Yes, happened to me a couple of times on Morebus when alighting at the terminus.
In addition to this NCT (Nottingham City Transport) are tap-on only for a single fare, although you can buy tickets on the app (or ask the driver for a different ticket and you can use contactless for this too).
Some trentbarton drivers likewise aren't fussed about tapping off at the moment with the fares cap, one said to me you don't need to do that at the moment. I still do as a force of habit on there though.
Joshua_Harman
Member
It’s good to make a habit of it. Some TOTO Systems will charge you a I complete trip fee if you don’t touch out, most will charge you to the terminus stop of the route, but not all.
( https://www.stagecoachbus.com/pay-as-you-go-terms-and-conditions )
( https://www.stagecoachbus.com/pay-as-you-go-terms-and-conditions )
johncrossley
Established Member
This seems a problem in several places. It would be better if tap on tap off was a lower price than buying a ticket from the driver.
There's tap on tap off on my local Go North East route - it's not particularly popular but does exist. However, tapping off seems to be on the card machine by the driver, which makes the whole process very awkward when alighting. I generally have a day or weekly pass (as TOTO only covers a handful of routes and doesn't include the one I use to get to work from the city centre even though it's the same company) and don't need to tap out, but some people do and quite often I'll either have to wait for them to tap off (not instant by any means, can take 2-3 seconds) or squeeze past them. While the idea of tap on tap off seems sensible enough, in practice it seems to slow down both boarding and alighting - making it totally counterproductive as implemented now!
There's a particularly weird aspect in the way it works on our buses - there is actually a ticketer reader, presumably designed for tapping off. It's just never activated! Even just having that work would make the alighting process a fair bit easier...
There's a particularly weird aspect in the way it works on our buses - there is actually a ticketer reader, presumably designed for tapping off. It's just never activated! Even just having that work would make the alighting process a fair bit easier...
johncrossley
Established Member
Why do so many companies use these Ticketer machines to implement tap in tap out? There are many other smartcard readers used on buses around the world that have a nice big panel that you simply need to touch momentarily instead of needing to hold the card against the reader for such a long time as with the Ticketer machines. Nobody who has used those other readers would even consider the Ticketer machines to be any good whatsoever.
markymark2000
On Moderation
People aren't used to it and many drivers don't encourage it.
Combine that with the fact many tickets don't cap with tap on tap off (only works for solo adult travellers and doesn't cap return fares so you pay more). For multi operator schemes, there is generally at least one firm which doesn't have the full capabilities. Plus, I think there is also a lack of trust, I know that I, as a solo adult traveller, tend not to trust the schemes too much as I am too sceptical about whether or not it will cap properly. Definitely for multi operator schemes, I don't trust them at all and depending on the number of buses you get on, the dwell time could be longer than buying a ticket because it's tap on, tap off, tap on, tap off versus one off payment then a very, very quick QR scan on all subsequent routes.
Because for all of their faults, Ticketer is the market leader because of contactless in the first instance, and now bus open data. There are so many issues with Ticketer but quite frankly, they don't give a stuff because they are backed up by so many contracts, they needn't care anymore and they know that the cost to move away from them (in terms of admin work and actual cost of new machines etc), is so high that why would anyone change to another ETM provider anytime soon. There is no incentive anymore for them to do well so they are focussing now on how to get more money out of operators with the endless add ons they offer, rather than making the bus passenger experience better. They see it as 'bus company pay us more money' rather than 'please passenger who pays bus company so bus company has the money to pay us more money'.
johncrossley
Established Member
They maybe market leader in the UK but I haven't seen them elsewhere. Even if they keep the existing machines it would make sense to have big standalone readers mounted vertically for maximum speed and convenience. So you would only use the reader on the ticket machine for buying paper tickets from the driver.
markymark2000
On Moderation
They have the standalone tap off machines on most companies but they aren't quick. There is still a delay as if it is trying to work out that you are tapping off.
johncrossley
Established Member
They should have them also for tapping on. Yes, the tap off readers are weirdly slow, nothing like I've seen anywhere before. They also only allow you to touch out when the bus is approaching a stop. This is presumably a measure against fraud but some time could be saved if you were allowed to touch out after passing the last stop.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Tapping on/off is a tough one. Too quick to read a card and the chances of a false tap are higher- on the crowded buses from Muswell Hill it was a common occurrence for someone to accidentally tap in as the bus went round a corner. But too slow and the boarding/alighting process is just painful.
IME price capping on contactless only ever really works where the buses are a fixed price.
IME price capping on contactless only ever really works where the buses are a fixed price.
cactustwirly
Established Member
It's a flat fare so don't see how that works
AlastairFraser
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Not always - short fares and some of their other routes, perhaps P and R don't cap. Also, the decision to install these was made pre-£2 cap I should think, although the different day tickets (Reading All bus, or SimplyReading Day tickets which is now functionally pointless for adult day ticket users.)
I'd like to make another suggestion - Lothian have TOTO I believe, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with the trams yet.
cactustwirly
Established Member
If you're making a return journey you just get a mobile Allbus ticket. It's a lot easier and cheaper than anything else
AlastairFraser
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I'm a born and bred Redingensian, but getting your phone in the town these days might be a dangerous act...
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
An update to my earlier posts about the cap in West Yorkshire: on Tuesday I used a mixture of Arriva and First services, tapping off only if the journey was fairly short. Yesterday upon checking my banking app I found that both operators had capped separately at the cost of their own daily ticket, meaning one of them (or mayor Tracy Brabin) owes me £4.50. Good thing that the purpose of my journeys was looking for a car to purchase. Note to self, demand a paper ticket in future and pay upfront for a MetroDay on the first trip.
Is contactless tap on tap off in West Yorkshire supposed to be multi operator? I may have missed it but I can’t see any mention anywhere that it is
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