Nigel Farage and that bank account...

[Bantamzen]

Hmmm. I have to say, that, although my sympathies are generally with Nigel Farage on the de-banking issue, this particular article appears to contain nothing except allegations and speculation by Nigel Farage, so I'm not sure how seriously I'd take it. It doesn't seem to me unreasonable that a review would have no deadline if it's a complex issue and you genuinely don't know upfront how long it'll take to do the job properly. I'd also note that the stuff about how Farage feels people should lose honours is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand, and for me just adds to the impression that the article is just ranting rather than being a piece of serious journalism.

Farage in "they've all got in for me" shocker.....

I find it highly ironic that this odious little man is crying about being screwed over by the financial sector he made his fortune in. And frankly from what I can tell it wasn't even a screwing over, he just fell foul of the T&Cs of the bank. Normally this would be a private matter between him and the bank, but in true narcissistic fashion not only has he screamed about it all over the media, but he's also pretending to give a stuff about anyone else in order to keep the story in the news. Frankly the media should step away from Farage once and for all.

It sickens me to the core that he is making all this fuss, and dragging other people in to help his cause simply because he might not have as much money as he'd like. And that ladies and gentleman is what is at the core of the whole of this whole matter in my opinion. The boy wonder Farage is skint (relatively speaking). Bo-ho. Move on. Nothing to see here. If anything I'd say this is Karma baby....

Controversial? Moi?

 

[duncanp]

Farage in "they've all got in for me" shocker.....

I find it highly ironic that this odious little man is crying about being screwed over by the financial sector he made his fortune in. And frankly from what I can tell it wasn't even a screwing over, he just fell foul of the T&Cs of the bank. Normally this would be a private matter between him and the bank, but in true narcissistic fashion not only has he screamed about it all over the media, but he's also pretending to give a stuff about anyone else in order to keep the story in the news. Frankly the media should step away from Farage once and for all.

It sickens me to the core that he is making all this fuss, and dragging other people in to help his cause simply because he might not have as much money as he'd like. And that ladies and gentleman is what is at the core of the whole of this whole matter in my opinion. The boy wonder Farage is skint (relatively speaking). Bo-ho. Move on. Nothing to see here. If anything I'd say this is Karma baby....

Controversial? Moi?

But Nigel Farage was not de-banked because he fell below the limits set by Coutts for being able to bank with them, although Coutts tried to pretend this was the case.

The subject access request document makes it clear that Mr Farage was debanked for reasons of "reputational risk" and because his "views do not align with our values...".

I get that a lot of people hate Nigel Farage, but the fact that someone can have their bank account arbitrarily closed because of lawfully held political opinions is something that should concern everyone, especially in the move to an increasingly cashless society.

 

[Bantamzen]

But Nigel Farage was not de-banked because he fell below the limits set by Coutts for being able to bank with them, although Coutts tried to pretend this was the case.

The subject access request document makes it clear that Mr Farage was debanked for reasons of "reputational risk" and because his "views do not align with our values...".

I get that a lot of people hate Nigel Farage, but the fact that someone can have their bank account arbitrarily closed because of lawfully held political opinions is something that should concern everyone, especially in the move to an increasingly cashless society.

OK, so quite honestly I had thought it had been closed because of a lack of funds, although this hasn't actually been denied as far as I can see. But even so, we are not talking about a standard bank account here are we, this was an account that was something of an exclusive. And frankly in these situations I see nothing wrong with such an account being scrutinised much more closely by the bank in question. After all if you want all the extra pops, bangs and whistles then perhaps you should expect being much more tightly regulated. After all, nobody forced him to take out such an account.

Let's be clear on this subject though. Farage hasn't been "debanked", he has got into a squabble with a bank and he wants the whole world to feel sorry for him. I would put every last penny I have betting that he has multiple accounts with multiple banks, both in the UK and abroad. All his tubthumping and shouting is coming about because he has fallen out of the media focus, and he cannot stand not being the centre of attention. Trying to make this out to be some campaign to help the little people fight the nasty establishment is dishonest at best, we all know that once he gets his way he will bugger off and find some new hobby horse. Just like he did with Brexit. Got his way, buggered off.

Nobody should be falling for this BS. Quite frankly if I owned a chip shop I wouldn't want his business.

 

[najaB]

But Nigel Farage was not de-banked because he fell below the limits set by Coutts for being able to bank with them, although Coutts tried to pretend this was the case.

The subject access request document makes it clear that Mr Farage was debanked for reasons of "reputational risk" and because his "views do not align with our values...".

That's not entirely correct. It would be more accurate to say that their decision was to stop keeping his account open despite it having been below the required balance for some time. Nigel has confirmed that his balance was below the threshold, though he claims he was never actually told what that threshold was before the account was closed.

 

[jon0844]

My late grandfather had an account, and never met the criteria (at least not what they have today) so clearly they have guidelines and can bend them at their discretion.

They bent them for Nigel for a while until they decided he wasn't worth the risk - but that's what gave him the means to claim discrimination. If they'd just said he didn't meet their criteria and hadn't got other things on file, he'd have no means to complain.

I can't get an account either with them, and suspect a fair few forum members couldn't.

 

[MotCO]

They bent them for Nigel for a while until they decided he wasn't worth the risk - but that's what gave him the means to claim discrimination. If they'd just said he didn't meet their criteria and hadn't got other things on file, he'd have no means to complain.

If he didn't meet the requirements for a Coutts account, would they not just have suggested he opened a personal and business account with Natwest. But that offer was denied him until he threatened to go public.

Let's be clear on this subject though. Farage hasn't been "debanked", he has got into a squabble with a bank and he wants the whole world to feel sorry for him. I would put every last penny I have betting that he has multiple accounts with multiple banks, both in the UK and abroad. All his tubthumping and shouting is coming about because he has fallen out of the media focus, and he cannot stand not being the centre of attention. Trying to make this out to be some campaign to help the little people fight the nasty establishment is dishonest at best, we all know that once he gets his way he will bugger off and find some new hobby horse. Just like he did with Brexit. Got his way, buggered off.

He may like the limelight, but that does not mean that he has identified a real problem with bankers' attitutudes (maybe their interpretation of money launderying laws) which seems to affect thousands of people. He may be a crusader, but he is leading that crusade on behalf of many people and organisations.

 

[jon0844]

He presumably met the criteria at one point, but once paying off the mortgage no longer did. Had they just said he no longer met their criteria then that would have been it. But they had decided to close it for other reasons, which they stupidly admitted to the media - giving Nigel the necessary ammunition.

I don't know when they offered him a NatWest account or the circumstances behind that as I don't think Coutts could tell us and so we have to take Nigel's account. Just as we need to trust this story that ten other banks refused his custom too - again we can't ask the banks.

Plus this was a business account and we've discussed at length here about what rights a business has over a person.

Nigel will get some money and get his name in the press for a bit. Then he'll get bored, the bank will drag its heels, and the Government will do sod all.

By September I'm sure Nigel will find something new to rant about.

 

[Bantamzen]

He may like the limelight, but that does not mean that he has identified a real problem with bankers' attitutudes (maybe their interpretation of money launderying laws) which seems to affect thousands of people. He may be a crusader, but he is leading that crusade on behalf of many people and organisations.

I guarantee you he isn't leading anything on behalf of anyone other than himself.

 

[najaB]

I guarantee you he isn't leading anything on behalf of anyone other than himself.

While I have my doubts, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens come the autumn/winter.

 

[Bantamzen]

While I have my doubts, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens come the autumn/winter.

I have no doubts whatsoever. Farage works only for Farage. Anyone hoping that he'll champion their causes are fooling themselves.

 

[MotCO]

I guarantee you he isn't leading anything on behalf of anyone other than himself.

Your source?

 

[Bantamzen]

Your source?

Nigel Farage....

 

[jon0844]

Your source?

Everything he's ever said and done?

 

[najaB]

Your source?

Nigel Farage....

Everything he's ever said and done?

As I said above, I have doubts about Nigel's authenticity, but I'll withhold judgement until the autumn/winter.

 

[Yew]

I get that a lot of people hate Nigel Farage, but the fact that someone can have their bank account arbitrarily closed because of lawfully held political opinions is something that should concern everyone, especially in the move to an increasingly cashless society.

He did not have his bank account closed, his companies bank account was closed.

 

[MotCO]

He did not have his bank account closed, his companies bank account was closed.

He had both accounts closed. He was, belatedly, offered a Natwest personal account, but not a business account.

 

[brad465]

It was revealed today Alison Rose is set to get a £2.4m payoff after resigning. Unsurprisingly many are outraged, including Farage himself. Personally I think this is a continuation of what was "learnt" from 2008: no matter how badly bankers mess up, there are no real consequences. Perhaps if we followed Iceland's lead and jailed the dodgy bankers, the bankers who followed would have taken the job more seriously (then again Farage owes it to incompetent bankers getting big payoffs after 2008 and no consequences for actually being a high profile figure in the first place, thanks to the populism rise this created):

NatWest: Former boss set for £2.4m pay package after Farage scandal

Chief executive Dame Alison Rose quit the bank over the closure of Nigel Farage's account.

www.bbc.co.uk

The former boss of NatWest is set to receive a £2.4m pay package this year, despite having quit in disgrace over her handling of the closure of Nigel Farage's bank account.
Dame Alison Rose stepped down from the bank last month after admitting to being the source of an inaccurate news story about Mr Farage's finances.
She is currently working out her 12-month notice period at the group.
Mr Farage called the pay package a "sick joke".
But NatWest said her pay will remain under review as it investigates the scandal.
A spokesman said: "Like other employees where an investigation outcome is pending, Alison is currently receiving her fixed pay.
"This in line with her contractual notice period and remains under continual review, as the independent investigation continues. As previously confirmed, no decision on her remuneration will be taken until the relevant investigations are complete."
The scandal emerged after Mr Farage, a prominent Brexiteer, claimed in early July that his Coutts account had been shut because of his political views.
A BBC report, citing a source familiar with the matter, then disputed this, stating that the account was closed because he no longer met the wealth threshold for Coutts.

Mr Farage subsequently obtained a document outlining his suitability as a Coutts customer. The 40-page document flagged concerns that he was "xenophobic and racist", and also questioned the reputational risk of having Mr Farage as a client.
It said that to have Mr Farage as a customer was not consistent with Coutts' "position as an inclusive organisation" given his "publicly stated views".
On 26 July, Dame Alison quit, hours after admitting she had made a mistake in speaking to the BBC about Mr Farage.
She had come under mounting pressure from Downing Street, the chancellor and other senior cabinet ministers to step down.
The BBC has since apologised for its inaccurate report.
In a message on X, the social media platform formerly known as Twitter, Mr Farage said: "Any employee of NatWest that had done what she'd done would have been out the door, fired and would not even have received their month's money."
In a note to investors on Wednesday, NatWest said it would pay Dame Alison a £1.15m salary for the year and £1.15m in NatWest shares, which she will receive over the course of five years.
She is also in line for £115,566 in pension payments, bringing the total pay deal to around £2.4m.
NatWest said that Dame Alison's pay linked to previous share awards can yet be adjusted. The bank could decide to "claw back" those awards at a later date.
NatWest also confirmed pay arrangements for its interim chief executive, Paul Thwaite. He will receive £1m not including bonuses, shares or pension.

 

[najaB]

Personally I think this is a continuation of what was "learnt" from 2008: no matter how badly bankers mess up, there are no real consequences. Perhaps if we followed Iceland's lead and jailed the dodgy bankers, the bankers who followed would have taken the job more seriously (then again Farage owes it to incompetent bankers getting big payoffs after 2008 and no consequences for actually being a high profile figure in the first place, thanks to the populism rise this created

Depends entirely on what the pay award is based on. It could be based on her performance in the year prior to mishandling the Farage incident, and may well have already been decided so withholding it might place the bank in a difficult legal situation.

 

[jon0844]

In any other set of circumstances, he wouldn't care one bit about someone else in the financial sector getting a huge payout. As it's a private company, I guess there's SFA he can do about it too.

 

[brad465]

In any other set of circumstances, he wouldn't care one bit about someone else in the financial sector getting a huge payout. As it's a private company, I guess there's SFA he can do about it too.

I suspect he'd be secretly be delighted with her getting the payout, as it gives him more ammunition to keep himself getting publicity.

 

[sor]

Just an update - the FCA (regulator) doesn't think there's an issue with people being "debanked" due to their views. I believe this is the review that the government wasted no time in triggering.

FCA finds no evidence of customers being debanked over political views

Watchdog launched inquiry after row over Coutts’s handling of Nigel Farage’s account

www.theguardian.com

Farage is of course furious about it and is calling it a whitewash and all that stuff, but that's normal.

 

[nlogax]

Just an update - the FCA (regulator) doesn't think there's an issue with people being "debanked" due to their views. I believe this is the review that the government wasted no time in triggering.

Gosh. Fancy that. It's almost like someone was dishing out some properly disingenuous BS to reignite their diminishing public profile.

Farage is of course furious about it and is calling it a whitewash and all that stuff, but that's normal.

It's time we stopped giving a damn about Farridge and what he thinks about anything.

 

[MotCO]

Just an update - the FCA (regulator) doesn't think there's an issue with people being "debanked" due to their views. I believe this is the review that the government wasted no time in triggering.

FCA finds no evidence of customers being debanked over political views

Watchdog launched inquiry after row over Coutts’s handling of Nigel Farage’s account

www.theguardian.com

Farage is of course furious about it and is calling it a whitewash and all that stuff, but that's normal.

Interestingly (or not), the Telegraph also states that the FCA did not investigate Farage's case because it (conveniently) fell outside 'the reporting period'. Is this not a case of quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[jon0844]

Just an update - the FCA (regulator) doesn't think there's an issue with people being "debanked" due to their views. I believe this is the review that the government wasted no time in triggering.

Called it!

 

[sor]

Interestingly (or not), the Telegraph also states that the FCA did not investigate Farage's case because it (conveniently) fell outside 'the reporting period'. Is this not a case of quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I'm not sure it changes much, thanks to the information he voluntarily released it would look like it wouldn't change the outcome

He did however start a big campaign about the "debanked" and it would seem that whatever the reasons were, it wasn't about their views (unless they stray into outright abuse of staff)

 

[MotCO]

He did however start a big campaign about the "debanked" and it would seem that whatever the reasons were, it wasn't about their views (unless they stray into outright abuse of staff)

How does that statement square with Coutts' 40 page dossier on Nigel Farage which stated (on page 1) "Committee did not think continuing to bank NF was compatible with Coutts given his publicly-stated views that were at odds with our position as an inclusive organisation"

Coutts' 40-page dossier on Nigel Farage in full

Document details reasons why bank decided to close former Ukip leader's account

www.telegraph.co.uk

Personal Data relating to Request TS5JVPQXVV# Page 1 of 40 Item 1: Personal data extracted from minutes from Wealth Reputational Risk Committee on 17th November 2022 Content Seeking approval to continue the relationship with Nigel Farage (NF) subject to annual reviews Referred to NF’s controversial profile in public life and politics, reflected in the adverse press outlined in the paper presented. Despite the adverse press, from a legal perspective NF had not been formally charged of any wrongdoing, and is not subject to any regulatory censure. In terms of any potential connections to Russia, NF had not been sanctioned and had no known direct/indirect Russian connections. NF is already a Coutts customer which he had made public knowledge. Recommendation is to retain NF for now. However, it was noted that NF currently has a mortgage with Coutts, which is due to expire in July 2023 and which, on a commercial basis, we would not look to renew and so would suggest winding down the connection on that basis. The paper was right to mention the Russian allegations and potential Russian connections NF had, but there was nothing substantive in that regard. There were reputational risks to consider of banking NF given he was such a high profile figure and had been the subject of significant adverse press. We needed to be in a position to convene and react quickly if NF made public comments that created an increased reputational risk of Coutts continuing to bank him. Six months before the expiry of NF’s mortgage with Coutts, they would indicate to NF that we are not renewing the mortgage, but were such a ‘flash point’ to arise before then in relation to NF which we are uncomfortable with, [third-party personal data removed] would escalate quickly to this Committee. Exiting NF next year on commercial grounds when the mortgage rolls off [Third-party data removed] commented that there is an extra cost attached to managing the accounts of high profile individuals such as NF The Committee did not think continuing to bank NF was compatible with Coutts given his publicly-stated views that were at odds with our position as an inclusive organisation. this was not a political decision but one centred around inclusivity and Purpose. With the support of the Committee, [the Chair] concluded as follows: After the expiry of the mortgage with Coutts, NF would not be a criteria client, and we should set a glide path to exiting NF when that mortgage expires.