National English DCO implementation timer ticking.

[172007]

After reading the threads about new rolling stock tenders it got me wondering about Conductors not operating doors anymore.

Tenders are:
Chiltern 20-70 trains
Northern 450 trains
All new trains delivered for some years have had DCO capability installed from new.

My local station at Cradley Heath now has ASDO Balises installed (yellow strips in the four foot on sleepers with the printed text "ASDO std Cradley Heath Down"

A) What rolling stock is ready for Driver full doors to be introduced next year hypothetically if there were no obstacles to training and union interference and platform lighting was improved.

Class 80x later not early models
All Electrostars (can be retrofitted like class 172 and 350's have been if not already)
195
196
197
331
350
397
172
720
730
166
165 GWR
Flirts

Cab be retrofitted
450
444
701

Have ASDO balises started to appear by stealth across the network where these trains operate?

 

[Merseyrailfan]

Would Unions object though?

 

[Towers]

Early 80x fleets (GWR, very likely LNER, possibly others) are currently unable to operate DCO/DOO unless with platform dispatch staff, their bodyside camera equipment is not compliant.

Following fitment on a WestMids 350, SWR’s 444 & 450 fleets (DC Desiros) have been the subject of much discussion around whether retro fitment of camera equipment might be on the cards now that SWR drivers have accepted DCO. SWR 458s are another possibility if they return to service post-refurbishment.

Class 165/166 units with GWR have had bodyside camera and in-cab monitor equipment fitted for ages, but never operational.

 

[172007]

Would Unions object though?

RMT would but surely it will it come immediately after the booking office issues have resolved. Vague strategy from Whitehall at play.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2023 ==

Early 80x fleets (GWR, very likely LNER, possibly others) are currently unable to operate DCO/DOO unless with platform dispatch staff, their bodyside camera equipment is not compliant.

Following fitment on a WestMids 350, SWR’s 444 & 450 fleets (DC Desiros) have been the subject of much discussion around whether retro fitment of camera equipment might be on the cards now that SWR drivers have accepted DCO. SWR 458s are another possibility if they return to service post-refurbishment.

Class 165/166 units with GWR have had bodyside camera and in-cab monitor equipment fitted for ages, but never operational.

So by virtue that later 80x's are compliant there is a fix already out there.

 

[Merseyrailfan]

Is DCO a just a compromise between Unions and goverment? Even, with DCO I still don’t thinks Unions would agree to work DCO rolling stock.

 

[172007]

Is DCO a just a compromise between Unions and goverment? Even, with DCO I still don’t thinks Unions would agree to work DCO rolling stock.

New thread could be opened for that when the tine arrises it's down to negotiation between unions and the Whitehall.

 

[Towers]

RMT would but surely it will it come immediately after the booking office issues have resolved. Vague strategy from Whitehall at play.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2023 ==


So by virtue that later 80x's are compliant there is a fix already out there.

There is; the money/will/time of refitting cameras and software etc though is a major project - and especially for a manufacturer already very busy dealing with other ‘issues’! - so the trains in question cannot really be said to be “ready” at this stage.

Also, dare I say it….701s?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Aug 2023 ==

Would Unions object though?

In fairness, the OP did state hypothetically and if there were no union issues

 

[Agent_Squash]

After reading the threads about new rolling stock tenders it got me wondering about Conductors not operating doors anymore.

Tenders are:
Chiltern 20-70 trains
Northern 450 trains
All new trains delivered for some years have had DCO capability installed from new.

My local station at Cradley Heath now has ASDO Balises installed (yellow strips in the four foot on sleepers with the printed text "ASDO std Cradley Heath Down"

A) What rolling stock is ready for Driver full doors to be introduced next year hypothetically if there were no obstacles to training and union interference and platform lighting was improved.

Class 80x later not early models
All Electrostars (can be retrofitted like class 172 and 350's have been if not already)
195
196
197
331
350
397
172
720
730
166
165 GWR
Flirts

Cab be retrofitted
450
444
701

Have ASDO balises started to appear by stealth across the network where these trains operate?

ASDO is automatic selective door opening. It’s nothing to do with DCO.

It’s also perfectly standard safety technology - the entire 450/444/458 fleet had it fitted by an operator that made very clear they were keeping with existing ways of working.

 

[185]

Seeing ASDO in action on Northern's CAF units, I agree with the nickname given which describes aptly the reliability of this untrustworthy door deselect system.

ASBO.

 

[172007]

ASDO is automatic selective door opening. It’s nothing to do with DCO.

It’s also perfectly standard safety technology - the entire 450/444/458 fleet had it fitted by an operator that made very clear they were keeping with existing ways of working.

That operator has gone though. Its management contracts specified by the Dft. Most such agreements where only for the lengh of each franchise.

Management contracts are now issued by the Dft and if they want everything that is DCO capable, of which ASDO is a key requirement and in most areas a stumbling block at the moment introduced within a year then the 450/444/458 fleet are ready to go your saying as per the premise of this thread.

 

[Agent_Squash]

That operator has gone though. Its management contracts specified by the Dft. Most such agreements where only for the lengh of each franchise.

Management contracts are now issued by the Dft and if they want everything that is DCO capable, of which ASDO is a key requirement and in most areas a stumbling block at the moment to be introduced within a year then the 450/444/458 fleet are ready to go your saying as per the premise of this thread.

But that doesn’t cancel the point that ASDO is a safety feature that should be implemented across the network, regardless of DCO.

 

[LowLevel]

But that doesn’t cancel the point that ASDO is a safety feature that should be implemented across the network, regardless of DCO.

I suppose it's the usual cost benefit thing. Where I am we have a handful of stations that require SDO to be used (and some only in the summer) and so the trains either use a local door (158) or Guard operated manual SDO (170).

It's a rather sprawling network to fit functional SDO to both the stations and trains to mitigate that already low risk, compared to say a suburban network like SWR or even some Northern routes where the trains are routinely too long for many platforms.

 

[172007]

But that doesn’t cancel the point that ASDO is a safety feature that should be implemented across the network, regardless of DCO.

Agree with that and it makes sense.

Still, all the trains in the opening thread are,l ready ready for DCO or very nearly and the main thrust of the thread is that DCO could be introduced across quite a significant proportion of the network in a short amount of time with all the new trains in the tenders effectively replacing 95% of passenger trains running in the next 5 years or so.